Syclone in surgery

[T-Bone]

Well, I found out today that the Waller built 700R4 in the Syclone I acquired from ViperRacing is missing some bearings in the backside (appears they were just left out during the last rebuild but that wasn't what caused the failure ???). The pump rotor broke and messed up my $950 TC, thus no power to wheels.

Good news is that RPM transmissions in Indiana is installing a 4L60E level 6, that will handle up to 1000 HP to the wheels. Could have had the 700R4 rebuilt for 1/2 the cost of the 4L60E, but this way I am confident tranny rebuild's for this truck are all but eliminated. If you guys need tranny work done, consider RPM. Their reputation is superb and their products are super, super nice. Was hoping this would be semi-cheap.........NOT but you get what you pay for!

Hope to retrieve the Sy at the end of the month and see if it was worth the price/wait.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Syclone in surgery

what price for a 60E? What controller are you using? Surprised you didn't go 4L80E.

 

[GarnetTy1473]

Re: Syclone in surgery

I was just up at RPM yesterday picking up a Trans Am WS6 that was traded in to us with a junk transmission. I saw your truck up there. They were out doing donuts in the gravel parking lot with it. I'm going to be doing the same conversion with them on my Ty if/when it ever gets to that point.

what price for a 60E? What controller are you using? Surprised you didn't go 4L80E.

They told me $2300 for the 4L60, plus $800 for the controller. Forget which one it is though. And I don't know if that's carry out price or installed. I would be carrying mine out and installing it while it's going back together.










and j/k on the donuts. Clean looking truck

 

[BigBadSmoosh]

Re: Syclone in surgery

doesn't a 4l60e have the exact same flaws that a 700r4 has?

haven't we beaten to death the debate on a 4l60e or 700r4 that can handle 1000hp!? isn't that null and void in an awd application?

isn't this why everyone goes with a 4l80e, a transmission designed better and without the same flaws that a 4l60e has?

seems like the wrong move to me!?

 

[Sy Guy 0024]

Re: Syclone in surgery

T-Bone, so that was your sy there with the TN tags? I was up there last Wed dropping off my trans as well. I was dead set on having my 700 rebuilt...but then let Rodney talk me into one of his 4l60s. Was very impressed with the shop and the clientele he's served. Rodney's personal car collection was just ridiculous, did you talk to him about that??

 

[T-Bone]

Re: Syclone in surgery

what price for a 60E? What controller are you using? Surprised you didn't go 4L80E.

$3850 installed with all their best components. A 80E was considered but that would require more changes and a chunk more money. The 60E is a direct bolt-on and they claim their top of the line 60E is better than a factory 80E.

Not sure on the controller brand but I trust them to use quality stuff. I saw most of their inventory but I was in a hurry and couldn't stay long. The owner bought Denny Rabb's immaculate Syclone and it is even better looking now. A fresh engine for it to the tune of $15,000 was sitting in the bay. Denny's original motor is for sale as well, if anyone is interested. He said he'd like to get $6,000 for it.

 

[T-Bone]

Re: Syclone in surgery

T-Bone, so that was your sy there with the TN tags? I was up there last Wed dropping off my trans as well. I was dead set on having my 700 rebuilt...but then let Rodney talk me into one of his 4l60s. Was very impressed with the shop and the clientele he's served. Rodney's personal car collection was just ridiculous, did you talk to him about that??

Yes, that is it. Funny though; I did the same thing you did....intended to have the 700R4 rebuilt (would handle 500 WHP). Got to talking to the guys there and looking at some documentation on builds, dyno's and performance stats and got talked into a level 5 4L60E. For about $600 more, I could go level 6 and have the quality hardened output shaft, which they claim is bullet proof. Thought it over and concluded, why not. Rodney was down to earth and very friendly. The whole staff was awesome to be around!!!

doesn't a 4l60e have the exact same flaws that a 700r4 has?

haven't we beaten to death the debate on a 4l60e or 700r4 that can handle 1000hp!? isn't that null and void in an awd application?

isn't this why everyone goes with a 4l80e, a transmission designed better and without the same flaws that a 4l60e has?

seems like the wrong move to me!?

I suppose if a person shells out the cash for a quality build, they are all good. I like the idea of a smoother shift and being able to adjust shift points for peak power output. Check out RPM's website; another forum member with mucho (and very quick) SyTy experience recommended them above anyone else and I am glad he did. Time will tell if it was the right move.....I am betting it was .

They told me $2300 for the 4L60, plus $800 for the controller. Forget which one it is though. And I don't know if that's carry out price or installed. I would be carrying mine out and installing it while it's going back together.

Sounds like their level 5 package. Seriously consider the level 6 for a few hundred more. I also paid the extra $350 for R/R of the transmission.....that is wayyy more than fair to me since they have the tools, expertise and patience.

 

[GarnetTy1473]

Re: Syclone in surgery

Sounds like their level 5 package. Seriously consider the level 6 for a few hundred more. I also paid the extra $350 for R/R of the transmission.....that is wayyy more than fair to me since they have the tools, expertise and patience.

Yes, it was for the level 5. When all is said and done, I'm hoping to be makng 550hp, so I'm hoping that will be enough. Might look into the level 6. Depends how much money is left over when that part of the project comes around. $350 is cheap to R&R a syty trans, considering that's the same they charged my dealership to R&R the trans in a Trans Am. Less than $1300 for a stock rebuild, new converter, and replacing the pinion and rear main seal in the T/A. My cost on a junkyard trans with 90k miles on it was $900. Rodney's C6 Z06 that's procharged and running 9.50s is running one of their 4l60s. So I'm hoping it will be able to handle the little I'll be throwing at it.

 

[T-Bone]

Re: Syclone in surgery

Rodney's C6 Z06 that's procharged and running 9.50s is running one of their 4l60s. So I'm hoping it will be able to handle the little I'll be throwing at it.

They said it was just as crisp now as it was 200+ launches ago. One of his guys fired that thing up and moved it to another spot while I was standing near the bay. They were making final prep for the LSX shootout and it sounded super healthy. I'll let you know how the truck performs when I pick it up. Pretty sure I'll be tickled although my wallet's gonna be moaning .

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Syclone in surgery

So if you get a broken 700R4 to them they can get it running for $900? Please confirm as I am trying to help someone in the UK get a replacement 700R4.

:tup:

 

[2kwik4u]

Re: Syclone in surgery

doesn't a 4l60e have the exact same flaws that a 700r4 has?

haven't we beaten to death the debate on a 4l60e or 700r4 that can handle 1000hp!? isn't that null and void in an awd application?

isn't this why everyone goes with a 4l80e, a transmission designed better and without the same flaws that a 4l60e has?

seems like the wrong move to me!?

I think we've all been led to believe that without any real testing to back it up. The 4L60E is the "same" transmission in terms of hard parts internally, with of course the exception of th electronic control. I think that additional control might prove to be worthwhile in extending the life, as you don't have to run the super high line pressures at part throttle and cruise to keep it togethor.

I'll be keeping an eye out for these guys that are going 60E instead of 80E. Having seen several 700's in scraps, and only seeing one 80E busted, if it was my $4k, I would've gone 80E. I'm really curious to see how the 60's hold up. Hopefully those that get them will be back in a year or so to update on their condition!

 

[GarnetTy1473]

Re: Syclone in surgery

They quoted me the same $2300 for a stage 5 700r4 and a stage 5 4l60e. Just need to add the controller. I'm not going to have the money to do a built 80e, so I was going to just have the original 700 built. But for the additional 800 for the controller, I think I'll go that route just for the tuneability of it.

 

[cloneman315]

Re: Syclone in surgery

700s will live it they are built right.And they taken care of.

 

[T-Bone]

Re: Syclone in surgery

So if you get a broken 700R4 to them they can get it running for $900? :

Their 700R4 build (handles 500-600 WHP) would have cost me $2100 + $350 R/R fee. My internals were already quality parts and in fine condition, according to them. In other words, their build price varies based on condition once the tranny is split open and what level of quality parts you determine to go with.

I think we've all been led to believe that without any real testing to back it up.

Having seen several 700's in scraps, and only seeing one 80E busted, if it was my $4k, I would've gone 80E. I'm really curious to see how the 60's hold up. Hopefully those that get them will be back in a year or so to update on their condition!

Well, the 80E through them would have set me back about $5700-6000 since it requires different bracing, output shaft, driveshaft (I think, but don't quote me on that one).....there was a number of things increasing the price. They have video's and documentation of their 60E builds in 1,000 RWHP cars (mainly vettes) that make consistent passes w/o issue. I am guessing the Syclone I have there with a fine tune will put out 600-650 WHP so my thought was that a top of the line 60E will suffice at a savings of $1900 over the 80E, without a flaw in performance. RPM stands by their builds so if I frag the 60E within 2 years without exceeding 1000 WHP (they can deduce HP by damage), I can get a full credit towards a 80E. They assured me I won't be back with this truck for a rebuild using their level 6 package though. One really has to go see their products and gain a respect for their experience. They didn't start up their business this spring.....race teams across the country contract with them for tranny builds. That speaks volumes.....

Switching gears; are you and Jeremy coming to the Shindig? Hoping so. I am taking my X-cross ace in the hole and need someone to hand Harmon cleanex's and console him while I am on the course . If I can't conquer him in the Lap 1 Ty, it will definately be attributed to driver headspace and timing. If that happens, can I toss you the keys and see what the truck is really capable of?

 

[JSM]

Re: Syclone in surgery

I sent T-Bone up north as the JSM crew has used them several times now for 80e repairs due to previously questionable work.

I don't send people somewhere I don't trust. On top of it RPM is a fellow syty owner and has posted here before. They know what they are getting into, and the fact of the AWD and traction.

I also feel very confident they will stand behind their work also and claims.

With that said I still like my 80e and always will.

Just like any modification, 1 size don't not fit all people or trucks. Heck I am getting involved in putting a stock 700 back in a ty here soon.

 

[cloneman315]

Re: Syclone in surgery

so what are the differences between these two trans?why is it better than a base 700 etc just curious

 

[T-Bone]

Re: Syclone in surgery

so what are the differences between these two trans?why is it better than a base 700 etc just curious

http://www.rpmtransmissions.com

I would think they would know better than anybody since they build them. The boss has a professional built 900 HP bowtie engine going in his personal Syclone.....guess what tranny is going behind it!!

Hint-Hint: Not a 4L80E.

 

[bezerk]

Re: Syclone in surgery

http://www.rpmtransmissions.com

I would think they would know better than anybody since they build them. The boss has a professional built 900 HP bowtie engine going in his personal Syclone.....guess what tranny is going behind it!!

Hint-Hint: Not a 4L80E.

that does not prove anything.
untill he'' running 9's and made some passes.

765r4 is what the 700r4 guru's build. 700 with the ingredients of the 4l60E some claim them to be exact the same, but i think the planetaries and such are different in the 4l60E

 

[BigBadSmoosh]

Re: Syclone in surgery

it seems like everyone is forgetting that awd + 700r4 or 4l65e/4l60e = boom

wasn't it basically proven that the high line pressures required and strength of materials used (even in the most expensive builds) could not handle the amount of torque thrown BACK into the transmission via an awd drivetrain?

in a rwd setup the power doesn't go back into the trans
in an awd setup there is no where for the power to go but back into the trans thanks to the extra traction and weight.

i'm sure the cost of the built 700r4/4l60e is close to that of changing over to a stock 4l80e..

i'm not saying anything about the transmissions that RPM builds, i'm just saying that these trucks have been around for almost 20 years and the one thing that has always been considered a weakness is the transmission, it has never been a question of if it will go, but when.


I would love for there to be a viable 700r4/4l60e alternative out there, especially if it is a cheaper solution. However I'd hardly consider it a more reliable solution until it is well proven with 1/4mi runs and daily driving.

 

[T-Bone]

Re: Syclone in surgery

I would love for there to be a viable 700r4/4l60e alternative out there, especially if it is a cheaper solution. However I'd hardly consider it a more reliable solution until it is well proven with 1/4mi runs and daily driving.

I will be the test mule then . Their reputation proves they know how to build quality but as you say, that reputation is established on 2WD builds, which generates less heat and often, heat is the big killer on a transmission. Let's see what their work holds up to with AWD. I've always been hard-headed I guess but I am convinced they have tested and proven their product to support their claims. I don't part with $$$ too easy unless I am convinced beyond a reasonable doubt.