Launching with four drag radials

[NOJIMMY]

Re: Launching with four drag radials

I have personally done a awd wheelie, wasn't sure at first so had someone outside the truck take a look, no pics though

...thanks for the reply. Not to hijack this thread, but Ive been wondering about this.

1. With all things "about equal" (hp, vehicle wheelbase, traction, etc) can a transbrake
launch be made with a non-transbrake transmission using boost/brakes?

2. Is the weight of AWD preventing those wheel stands, or is front traction?

3. Is handling a "real problem" with AWD wheel stands, as the front tires
(assuming an open front diff) would be pulling one way when grabbing, or in
a posi-type front diff pullling various ways depending on weights put on front tires)?

4. Are the wheel stands (seen on RWD Typhoons) not possible on a RWD Syclone?

5. Does it damage much when under full acceleration the vehicle comes down
and thats why most have installed the tubular control arms, coilovers, etc?

6. Could a AWD with the prop shaft removed and rear slicks do a wheel stand?

7. and lastly, it would seem that the best ETs would be run without wheel stands.
But they sure look cool. Gotta be scary tho (I would Imagine).

Which brings us back to the original thread, and trying to figure out launching
with four drag radials. I see Ed is trying different tire sizes (front/rear via gear ratio changes)
from the normal 26in dia tires. I think he also had 8.25 wide fronts and 10 or 11 inch rears.
So one also has to wonder (for weight transfer to the rear) whether rear traction lowers
ETs? Tho Robert seems to launch level and straight (with drag radials front, slicks rear).

-Larry

 

[Six-is-Enough]

Re: Launching with four drag radials

...thanks for the reply. Not to hijack this thread, but Ive been wondering about this.

1. With all things "about equal" (hp, vehicle wheelbase, traction, etc) can a transbrake
launch be made with a non-transbrake transmission using boost/brakes?

-Larry

Can you clearify this?? Not sure what you are asking.

By simple definition a Transbrake is a way of making an automatic transmission engage 1st and reverse gears at the same time via a solenoid and valvebody mods. Too hold an vehicle steady and allow harder and more consistent launches.

Are you talking about a 4 wheel line lock setup?

 

[NOJIMMY]

Re: Launching with four drag radials

...sorry for the confusing posting, I`ll try and ask my questions a bit differently:

1. Given all things equal between two vehicles, one with a transbrake and

a second vehicle without a transbrake,
can the second vehicle obtain the same 60 foot times by brake launching?

2. For AWD SyTy`s, is the weight of the AWD System preventing wheel stands?
Or is the traction/grip from the front tires (due to AWD) preventing wheel stands?

3. If an AWD SyTy performed a wheel stand, (assuming the front tires continue
to rotate in the air due to awd), would it not be very dangerous upon "landing"
as one, or both front tires would grip independently and try pulling/steering the vehicle
right or left (even though the steering wheel would be straight)?

4. Is the wheel base differences between a Sy and Ty preventing RWD Sy`s from wheel stands?
It seems the only pictures/videos of wheel stands are RWD Ty`s.

5. Even with small to moderate SyTy wheel stands, do owners have to worry
about damaging the undercarriage and front end (and thus requires the need
for tubular control arms and coil overs? In other words, which comes first,
changing out the front end to prevent wheel stand damage, or one performs
wheel stands due to the conversion of the front end to lighter-stronger components)?

6. Could an AWD SyTy (without weight reduction in the front) perform
wheel stands by simply removing the front prop shaft and installing massive slicks
(assuming proper power, torque, launch boost levels and strong rear end)?

7. And lastly, are the vehicles doing wheel stands "wanting" to do wheel
stands (as it puts weight on the rear tires, maximizing traction, and
thus shortening their 60 foot times), OR would these vehicles doing
wheel stands "prefer to launch without doing wheel stands" as it
makes for a straighter, lower 60 foot ET (by not wasting time in the air
or fighting air resistance)?

​

Again, sorry for the long post, just very curious. I looked on the internet
to see if any other AWD Vehicle (import or american) discussed wheel stands,
but saw nothing on this topic. Years ago their used to be a olds 4-4-2 that had
two motors (one front and one rear). I always thought it would be a record setter,
but it seem to be used only for exhibition. And drivers complained about its handling.
Anyways, thanks guys...
-Larry

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Launching with four drag radials

There not dots or slicks but I'm going to try these Toyo RA1 next tire set. Since I want more than just a drag only truck and like to drive on the street.

http://www.toyo.com/docs/tires/tires.asp?lpid=18968&name=Proxes RA-1™&category=sport

But if you want slicks,

http://www.toyo.com/docs/tires/dragslicks.asp

I've ran Toyo's for the last 8-9 years and have always had good luck with them.

I did some quick research about these tire ands it seem like they really need to be 160-220 degrees to be sticky. They had a warning about using them for street use because of heat required. They aren't cheap either. I am not sure these are looking like a good tire for SyTy unless your autocrossing.

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Launching with four drag radials

I looked on the internet
to see if any other AWD Vehicle (import or american) discussed wheel stands,
but saw nothing on this topic.

As far as I know SyTy that lift or have lifted the front wheels Ed Hess, Bully Syclone & Nolan Ty have done this.

 

[Nova67ss]

Re: Launching with four drag radials

We discovered this summer when analysing one of the films takin on Roberts launch that he actualy lifted the left front wheel for a fraction of a sec.. :O

We did a small tune and I think we got it to go away..

 

[James Thomas]

Re: Launching with four drag radials

Ok so green dot's are gone, Nitto's are hard and require a rEEal good burn out, BFG drag's are some where in beteween...... how about the M/T drag's and the M&H drag's or D.O.T. cheater's??
Any one used these?

_________
James

 

[nastety92]

Re: Launching with four drag radials

Ok so green dot's are gone, Nitto's are hard and require a rEEal good burn out, BFG drag's are some where in beteween...... how about the M/T drag's and the M&H drag's or D.O.T. cheater's??
Any one used these?
James

I have four MT drag radials on stock rims and they hook good, but they need to be heated up for max hook.

Nick

 

[turbodig]

Re: Launching with four drag radials

...sorry for the confusing posting, I`ll try and ask my questions a bit differently:

1. Given all things equal between two vehicles, one with a transbrake and

a second vehicle without a transbrake,
can the second vehicle obtain the same 60 foot times by brake launching?

​

I don't believe a brake car could ever leave as hard as a t-brake, with all else being equal.
Part of the effect of the t-brake is the suspension reaction it offers.

This reaction does not come without a price in terms of parts. The same launch violence that aids in the planting of the rear tires, also beats things up.

Does this mean a foot-brake (or 4-wheel line-lock) car can't leave hard? No.
I do think that it requires different suspension approaches to get it to work.

2. For AWD SyTy`s, is the weight of the AWD System preventing wheel stands?
Or is the traction/grip from the front tires (due to AWD) preventing wheel stands?

Niether. I've had people tell me I lifted the fronts. Nothing like Mike, but I don't have that kind of power, either.

3. If an AWD SyTy performed a wheel stand, (assuming the front tires continue
to rotate in the air due to awd), would it not be very dangerous upon "landing"
as one, or both front tires would grip independently and try pulling/steering the vehicle
right or left (even though the steering wheel would be straight)?

I don't think this would be a problem with an open diff on the front. One wheel will always land first, the other will spin, and will then land.

I don't think it's a good thing for the front diff/transfercase/trans to have this happen... the chattering on/off/on off WOT power will hurt parts in short order.

A 1" wheelstand is just as bad as a 3-footer in this aspect.

4. Is the wheel base differences between a Sy and Ty preventing RWD Sy`s from wheel stands?
It seems the only pictures/videos of wheel stands are RWD Ty`s.

A Ty's shorter wheelbase will make the lift easier, no doubt.

5. Even with small to moderate SyTy wheel stands, do owners have to worry
about damaging the undercarriage and front end (and thus requires the need
for tubular control arms and coil overs? In other words, which comes first,
changing out the front end to prevent wheel stand damage, or one performs
wheel stands due to the conversion of the front end to lighter-stronger components)?

Depends on how hard you land. There's a reason they tell you to stay in the gas when it lifts. I've seen a Chevelle drop from about a 4-footer and it ain't pretty.

6. Could an AWD SyTy (without weight reduction in the front) perform
wheel stands by simply removing the front prop shaft and installing massive slicks
(assuming proper power, torque, launch boost levels and strong rear end)?

Probably. I don't think having the front wheels would take that much away from it. A good hookup in the back would make it happen.

7. And lastly, are the vehicles doing wheel stands "wanting" to do wheel
stands (as it puts weight on the rear tires, maximizing traction, and
thus shortening their 60 foot times), OR would these vehicles doing
wheel stands "prefer to launch without doing wheel stands" as it
makes for a straighter, lower 60 foot ET (by not wasting time in the air
or fighting air resistance)?

Anything getting traction good enough to pull the fronts is a good thing... you're not going to get much better traction than that, 4-wheels or 2.

Big "cartoon" wheelies aren't gonna help much, though... pulling 1-3" and keeping them that way through the 40-60 foot range, with a nice light setdown would be nice. You'll be going fast enough at this point where aero starts to fight you if your nose is too far in the air.

Unless you're making really *big* power, it begs the question that if you can lift 'em, why do you need the front wheels driving? Mid track traction will be improved, sure, but that would really only apply to builds in the 9-second range and faster.


I'm not sure I'd approach the problem (getting an AWD vehicle to hook) in this manner, though. Wheelies have great crowd appeal, but they're not the most consistent thing in the world. And, they tend to be harder on parts.

Robert has a very nice suspension setup on the rear of his truck. The ladder bars react on launch, and plant the rear tires. The front stays down- the suspension limiters keep it there.

What really needs to be figured out is a reverse ladder bar system that would plant the fronts equally with axle torque. So that, essentially, on a launch, both ends of the truck would lift, planting the tires into the ground. (without "jumping", ala lowrider)

Maybe the use of an active system, like air bags or hydraulics, that would activate for a split second when a t-brake was realeased, then go flat... (Thunking out loud)

​

Again, sorry for the long post, just very curious. I looked on the internet
to see if any other AWD Vehicle (import or american) discussed wheel stands,
but saw nothing on this topic. Years ago their used to be a olds 4-4-2 that had
two motors (one front and one rear). I always thought it would be a record setter,
but it seem to be used only for exhibition. And drivers complained about its handling.
Anyways, thanks guys...
-Larry

This will be a tough thing to overcome. Essentially, an AWD vehicle with everything spinning is roughly equivalent to driving on ice...

Dig