93 TY running issue - timing ?

3

3rdgentug

New member
Re: 93 TY running issue - timing ?

DaveP said:
Random thoughts:

There are 2 marks on the balancer. Are you using the correct one?

The 0º mark on the timing tab is the deep notch. No 'scotchbrite' required.

42 is set when you disconnect the tan wire to set the timing. It will clear on its own after 50 ign cycles. 42 will not be set by a 'bad ignition module'.

A 2bar MAP with a 3bar PROM will result in very rich idle. Is it?
A 3bar MAP with a 2bar PROM will result in a very lean idle. Is it?

What is the boost pressure? A plugged cat will result in overboost and Code 31's. (It did for me at least).

Get rid of anything that has a May Suddenly Die maker's label on it.

R43TS plugs are not the correct heat range for a stock SyTy, but they are not the source of your problem.

Hidden switches with unknown functions should concern you. Especially with the possibility of the valet mode 10:1 PROM being present. One of my trucks has this PROM, but has a different switch. Position "0" it will not run.

These ECM's do not "learn" idle. There is no adapt function for IAC. The feedback is the actual RPM compared to the desired RPM. If there is too much of a mismatch, Code 35 is set. Vacuum leaks are generally responsible for Code 35's.

That it will not rev past 3,000 in N is a stumper. Could be exhaust restriction, but it would have to be a massive clog. Try removing the O2 sensor (admittedly not easy without the correct tool, a torch and patience), and test again.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure , personally I only saw 1 line. It was dead on 0 when I put the light on it.

At idle it seems to be running pretty normal - does not smell rich at all

As soon as the truck sees any positive boost is when it starts to cut out , and no code 31 for right now. Im hoping to get the truck in the air this weekend to check the exhaust situation.

Has an msd coil - getting replaced first thing tomorrow with a stock coil
The msd 6al box had already been deleted.

I planned on changing plugs ot the NGKs I bought for the truck , but with all of this going on I have not had the time. Trucks heater has been deleted and havent had the time to fix it either, luckily its been in the 40's this week. This unforseen problem has me spending all the time I have on it right now.

As far as the PROM I was hoping to post the picture here and have someone look at it more knowledgeable then I am. I have never had a run in with any sort of valet mode ever before. But the more I read on them last night the more I felt that it was going to be my problem. Problem there is the switch I did find isnt doing anything. I will have to take the rest of the under dash off to get an idea of where this switch even goes. I do not have that time tonight unfortunately . Im going to have to put everything back together I took apart tonight.

I have an O2 sensor socket , what should I be looking for there exactly?

I would also like to ad the truck runs really good and strong under boost, got it up to @70 today on the interstate. As long as I don't stab down on the gas or go over 3000 rpms the truck seems to be running great.
 
3

3rdgentug

New member
Re: 93 TY running issue - timing ?

DaveP said:
There indeed are two marks. With the correct one in the notch, the 'wrong' one should be at the 5:00 position. Get under it with your light and check. IF you're using the wrong mark, your base timing will be severely (about 30º crank) advanced. And run about the way it does in the vid. Not well.

The suggestion to remove the O2 is to create an up-stream point to relieve pressure from a restricted cat. Leave the O2 plugged in, but just hanging. If it will now rev in N, go for the cat.

Double check your timing mark. There really are two. You will not be the first to get caught by this. Also try to grab the ring with your hand and see if it's loose on the hub. It is not uncommon for the rubber to give up, and the ring to move. Others will say "use a TDC stop to check the balancer". My experience has revealed that a 'spun' balancer can always be turned by hand. Not real easy to grab, but definitely try to check it.
Click to expand...

Well that is news to me , I will go check that right now
THX DaveP
If no luck I know I can at least pull the O2 sensor tomorrow.
 
Last edited:
DaveP

DaveP

Active member
Re: 93 TY running issue - timing ?

I edited that post. I made an error. Using the wrong notch will result in timing being ADVANCED.

One of the problems with quoting posts. Sometimes there are errors that get corrected in the original, but the error remains in the quote.
 
Don W.

Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: 93 TY running issue - timing ?

Dave and I banter some. Trouble is he's very good. I would disagree on removing the o2 but having never done it I'll defer. :rotf: With all that's transpired, and not being there, I'd still suspect ign. Reason is, according to the vid, the miss starts when boost comes in. IE my earlier post. HOWEVER I wonder if a faulty FPR (fuel pressure reg.) would fit in this puzzle somewhere? Maybe a fuel pressure check would be in order. If FP is not following boost (manifold pressure) then it's running out of fuel under boost. FYI When boost begins fuel pressure should follow pound for pound.

Thinkin' out loud.
 
3

3rdgentug

New member
Re: 93 TY running issue - timing ?

Ok there are 2 marks - I wonder why they would do that? It is new to me to ever see 2 timing marks.

One of the marks is whited out - that was the one I had seen , but it looks like the one the timing is going off of is the one that isn't marked. So I lined up the unmarked one at zero and like DaveP said when I got under the car I saw the marked on at @5 o clock position.
So - earlier when I was chasing wires one of the pictures I wanted to upload I had a question about was.
In all my v8 days the number 1 on the distributor always went towards number one cylinder , on this motor my number 1 spark plug is on the back of the passengers side ( in the 11 oclock position ).
At first this looked odd to me , but I remembered years ago that some v6 motors were timed off of a different cylinder on the passenger side. Could this distributor literally be almost 180*'s off?
 
3

3rdgentug

New member
Re: 93 TY running issue - timing ?

Don W. said:
Dave and I banter some. Trouble is he's very good. I would disagree on removing the o2 but having never done it I'll defer. :rotf: With all that's transpired, and not being there, I'd still suspect ign. Reason is, according to the vid, the miss starts when boost comes in. IE my earlier post. HOWEVER I wonder if a faulty FPR (fuel pressure reg.) would fit in this puzzle somewhere? Maybe a fuel pressure check would be in order. If FP is not following boost (manifold pressure) then it's running out of fuel under boost. FYI When boost begins fuel pressure should follow pound for pound.

Thinkin' out loud.
Click to expand...

Im replacing the msd coil tomorrow, parts store has to get one sent from another store - Im hoping that might clear some of that up.

I have a FPG - its at 40 pds at idle and when the boost starts to try to kick in its around 48 and seems very steady.
 
DaveP

DaveP

Active member
Re: 93 TY running issue - timing ?

Easier (sometimes) to remove the O2 than the cat.
 
Last edited:
3

3rdgentug

New member
Re: 93 TY running issue - timing ?

DaveP said:
I edited that post. I made an error. Using the wrong notch will result in timing being ADVANCED.

One of the problems with quoting posts. Sometimes there are errors that get corrected in the original, but the error remains in the quote.
Click to expand...

Fixed for future generations :tup:
 
DaveP

DaveP

Active member
Re: 93 TY running issue - timing ?

You asked, and now you know.
 
Last edited:
3

3rdgentug

New member
Re: 93 TY running issue - timing ?

DaveP said:
I think it is 180º out. You're describing the #4 firing position when the distributor is installed in the 'factory' position. But rotor position will NOT affect the way it runs, as long as timing is correct, firing order is correct, and you can connect the distributor connectors.
Click to expand...

So you are saying since the firing order is correct , timing is good on 0, and since its connected properly - that would NOT be my issue.

So back to the other things to try tomorrow.
 
DaveP

DaveP

Active member
Re: 93 TY running issue - timing ?

Yes. Good Luck. Keep us posted.
 
Last edited:
3

3rdgentug

New member
Re: 93 TY running issue - timing ?

DaveP said:
No issue with the above. Its not the physical installation of the distributor. And those fuel pressure numbers look OK too.

It's kind of hard to tell from the vid what the 'breakup' sounds like, but having gone through this myself 14 years ago with my first Ty, I'm leaning towards plugged cat.

There is another indication of exhaust restriction you can look for: With a scanner, Datamaster, Tunerpro, etc monitor Knock Retard. The presence of EGR will dilute the charge and reduce detonation. This shows up as very low or NO KR even in boost, or hard tip-in throttle application. We saw this on my 92. NO KR at all. Ever. Even up to the point it was 25psi and kicked in Code 31 fuel-cut. Once the cat was replaced, KR was in the oh-my-gosh range. Took two years to discover the engine had been rebuilt with flat-top pistons raising the static compression ratio substantially. But that's another story....




Yes. Good Luck. Keep us posted.
Click to expand...


I have a scan tool , but unfortunately for me its an obd2 actron
I am going to have to look into getting a scanner for this truck.

I will definitely be keeping this post updated

And I really do appreciate all the help
 
3

3rdgentug

New member
Re: 93 TY running issue - timing ?

DaveP said:
IF you still have an EGR valve installed on the engine, check that the diaphram is in the closed position at idle, and does not move with trans in P or N when you rev it. IF for some reason the EGR valve has been connected to a constant vacuum source, it would be open at all times and cause very lethargic performance. Which is what I hear in the vid. EGR at all times would also affect max RPM in N.

The EGR system on these engines will not usually flow enough exhaust gas to stall it at idle even if the valve is wide open.

Something to check. An open EGR valve will make it run the way I see / hear it in the vid.
Click to expand...

Im almost positive it must have been deleted bc I sure havent seen one
 
3

3rdgentug

New member
Re: 93 TY running issue - timing ?

I read a post on here about using photobucket to make pictures work - Im not trying to break any rules on purpose just trying to get some help with my truck's running problem.

MAP:

ECM:

ECM:

ECM:

Plugs:

MAP:

MAP:

I got the new coil on my way home , Im going to put it in first chance I can.
I will also pull the O2 sensor as well and see where that gets me.

I did figure out today that my cruise control cable is binding on the bolt for the bracket which is causing my TB to stick. I temp. fixed it and it had no effect on the running condition.
 
Big Mike

Big Mike

New member
Re: 93 TY running issue - timing ?

What is fuel pressure with vac line off of regulator? 48 psi at what # boost? Looks like it has a chip but who made it? What all is done with your truck, injector size? You may be able to rule out aftermarket chip by plugging stock chip dirrectly into ecm and putting 2 bar map in.
 
3

3rdgentug

New member
Re: 93 TY running issue - timing ?

Big Mike said:
What is fuel pressure with vac line off of regulator? 48 psi at what # boost? Looks like it has a chip but who made it? What all is done with your truck, injector size? You may be able to rule out aftermarket chip by plugging stock chip dirrectly into ecm and putting 2 bar map in.
Click to expand...

I have not tried that - didn't know too - I will try that first test time I get.

When it is starting to make positive boost its at 48 pounds , but that is when its cutting back @ 3000 rpms - I cannot test any higher then that. If I had to say from the video that is maybe 3 or so pounds of boost @ 48 pd of fuel pressure.
The truck has an upgraded precision turbo - Grand national style - upgraded down pipe - upgraded injectors
I do not know the make of the chip - I just bought this truck a week ago, The previous owner has some of the paperwork from the guy who built it. He was suppose to get it in the mail to me today. I do not know if that information will be in there or not, I am hoping so.

The injectors are precision injectors along with the turbo - the part numbers are unique to each injector -
I was going to place a call to precision first chance I get: if I had to guess from looking at them they are 1000cc injectors.
1. 58840
3. 58826
5. 58916
2. 58914
4. 58886
6. 58869

Unfortunately I do not have a stock chip - I will call the PO , but he didn't build the truck so I doubt he has it either. Is this a 3 bar map sensor? I couldn't find any of the numbers that the link had earlier on this map sensor.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top