Interest in Knock LEDs?

InvisiBill

InvisiBill

Active member
Any interest in some premade knock LEDs? http://syclone.invisibill.net/knockled/ is a copy of the old Chitown page about it. I asked about this years ago, and a lot of people seemed to think it'd be something nice to have it if didn't cost too much or wasn't too difficult to make work. Now that I've got my Ostrich, I'm actually getting closer to really doing something on this finally.

From what I've read, they flash faster as knock increases. This isn't a replacement for your scantool, just a way to have some idea whether or not something bad is happening without having to have a laptop hooked up. I was planning to hook mine to a small alarm LED and mount it on my pillar pod on the flat spot right next to the boost gauge. Basically just a "you're gonna blow it up" dummy light.

I have a chopped up MEMCAL that I'm using, so I don't mind soldering stuff all over it. If you have one of the "custom chip adapters" that holds a new EEPROM and piggybacks the stock MEMCAL for the ESC (like the Ultimate or a Moates G1), you could also attach this to the adapter rather than the actual MEMCAL. Basically you need to hook up power and ground for the circuit, a signal line from the ESC to the IC chip, and the LED into the IC chip.

Ideally I'd like to make this as plug 'n' play as possible. Pop the cover off the MEMCAL, hook a few wires into the ESC half of it, and put the cover back on with a little pigtail connector sticking out for the LED to plug into. In reality, I'm not sure how well the compromise between ease of install and secure attachment will work out.

Tell me what it would take for you to buy one of these...

How much would you pay? The parts for a single Knock LED cost less than the shipping, so it's pretty much all labor costs. The easier I make it for you to install, the more time it will take me and therefore drive up the price. I wouldn't expect shipping to be more than $5-ish for something small like this, and I could probably ship as many as you needed in one box (i.e. $5 shipping per order, not per item).

How much work can you handle to install it? You may have to solder onto your MEMCAL/adapter. Does it need to be literally 100% PnP, with no soldering, for you to be interested? Would you be interested in some sort of trade-in program where I install this on your part for an extra fee?

How complete/customizable would you like it? I can do an IC with a few wires soldered to it, and you figure out how to hook it up and supply an LED that matches your interior. I can do a complete "unit" designed to sit on top of the ESC with a quick disconnect and 10' of wire on the included red LED, and you basically just have to securely attach the wires to the ESC and pick a mounting spot for the LED.

Let me know what your perfect idea of this item would be. A complete PnP kit for $80. A baggie of parts and a diagram for $10. Something in between for $40. Toss any and all ideas out here...
 
The Devils Own Chariot

The Devils Own Chariot

Active member
Re: Interest in Knock LEDs?

The knock light on my ultimate does help with an indication that you need to change something on your tune. It’s deadly accurate when I compare it to Datamaster and what it sees. I do get flashes from it when I shift from park to drive to reverse but that’s false. It will start to flash faster as knock increases. If it starts to blink really fast Get The Heck Out Of The Gas! Its just really nice to have it to reassure your not going to blow when your scan tool is not hooked up. You may even be able to possibly do a crude tune off it but you would not be able to get the best results possible. My knock light only comes on at like 4 deg of KR from what I have noticed. The smaller stuff it seems to ignore. I would recomend instaling a knock light to anyone. It may save your motor as you held down the drag strip. Its something that can grab your attention and tell you to get out of the gas and run more fuel/alky. It will also trick you into thinking you are lean. Some cases your just running really really rich.
Maybe this is helpful maybe its not. My :2cents:
 
Z SKI

Z SKI

Donating Member
Re: Interest in Knock LEDs?

I would like a plug and play kit or i can solder it myself if i have good instructions. Its sounds like a great idea.
Thanks,
 
H

hrodgmc

New member
Re: Interest in Knock LEDs?

I would think using the adapter would be the most beneficial. If you need a knock light, you are probably running a modified .bin. I'd be interested in just the kit form.
 
attackdog

attackdog

New member
Re: Interest in Knock LEDs?

hrodgmc said:
I would think using the adapter would be the most beneficial. If you need a knock light, you are probably running a modified .bin. I'd be interested in just the kit form.
Click to expand...

X2... A simple plug-n-play would be great...
-Dean
 
turbodig

turbodig

Active member
Re: Interest in Knock LEDs?

Problem is, you'd need a lot of adapters. Ultimate adapter is different, Nolan/TurboTime/RPM use Moates, and the ATR and other chips were different still.
 
InvisiBill

InvisiBill

Active member
Re: Interest in Knock LEDs?

bezerk said:
couldn't we add a gauge? so you can see 0-15KR or somthing?
Click to expand...
Sorry, that's beyond me right now. This is a very simple circuit that essentially just lights up the LED when the ESC senses knock.

hrodgmc said:
I would think using the adapter would be the most beneficial. If you need a knock light, you are probably running a modified .bin.
Click to expand...
I disagree. I think every SyTy owner should have a way of showing knock. Modded trucks probably need it more, but they're also more likely to have the laptop and be able to get it working. Plus I'm sure we'll all agree that stock trucks can knock pretty bad. I'd like to make something that's available to everyone, easily and cheaply. If someone can't afford a laptop and DM right away, they could at least do this in the meantime, so they have a bit of diagnostic info. I'm an IT guy so I've always had access to laptops, but it'd still be handy for when I don't want to have the laptop with me.

I've wanted to do this for years (the marks on top of the cover on my MEMCAL page are marking the points needed to connect this circuit), but never really "needed" it as I had the laptop. If possible, I'd like to get it to fit between the top of the ESC and the plastic MEMCAL cover, and just have a little harness for hooking into the LED sticking out of one of the holes on top. It could then be used in any SyTy using a stock MEMCAL, whether that's a bone stock truck or a highly modified truck using an Ostrich in some random chip adapter with the MEMCAL piggybacked. If I could get it to fit nicely under the cover, you wouldn't even know it's there except for the LED connector sticking out.

For example, I don't use an adapter board with my Ostrich, but my idea above would still work, because I've still got the stock ESC half of the MEMCAL.

Short of me finding a way to do a 100% PnP solution that just plugs in, you're still going to need to attach it to the MEMCAL, so you could solder it directly to the MEMCAL pins on your adapter board if you prefer.

It sounds like there are a handful of people who would take these off my hands if I made them, so I'll probably go ahead and order some parts and see what I can come up with. With winter coming, I don't know how much I'll be playing with the truck, but I'll let you know when I come up with something.
 
H

hrodgmc

New member
Re: Interest in Knock LEDs?

Please let me know. John Casper is the only person I know making anything remotely similar. Thx
 
skwayb

skwayb

NWSTP
Re: Interest in Knock LEDs?

Well we have some code that Dig did in Code59 (V18 is released, V23 has the code and still is in Testing) that outputs the ALDL Knock Value to a Gauge. So it will display the number of degrees of knock on it. I have it running on my Ty and it works really good. I am using the Moates O-Meter to display the degrees. I have the O-Meter set to flash the word HIGH when it hits 7 degrees.

20075723465_o-meter_knock_wiring.jpg
 
InvisiBill

InvisiBill

Active member
Re: Interest in Knock LEDs?

ghettosled said:
while a little more extreme / complex I would think something like this for OBD1 cars would sell like hotcakes.

http://www.aeroforcetech.com/

Pretty sure Todd A. (aka Ultimate Chip guy) is behind these.. Great idea.
Click to expand...

I'm not positive, but I've always understood that OBD2 is very standardized, whereas OBD1 is just "some data output". For example, bit 1 in OBD2 is always AFR, and bit 2 is always TPS, etc. whether it's a GM, Ford, Chrysler, or Honda. With OBD1, each vehicle uses its own configuration for the datastream. In a SyTy, bit 1 is TPS and bit 2 is AFR, but in a Buick bit 1 is O2 and bit 2 is TPS.

That's why you have all the different versions of Datamaster, and why you have the Scanmaster-type devices specific to each vehicle. Making something like the Aeroforce for a SyTy would mean that it would only work on a SyTy. Making it work on a different vehicle would mean completely reconfiguring it to match that vehicle's particular datastream.

I agree that it would be awesome, but these sorts of devices never seem to go anywhere for the SyTy due to the extremely low number of potential sales. I think we'll have to wait for someone with lots of excess cash and the ability to personally make these to get really into SyTy tuning before we get much in the way of this. =(
 
InvisiBill

InvisiBill

Active member
Re: Interest in Knock LEDs?

epix said:
jpalmer said:
P-n-P for me
Click to expand...
Same. Interested
Click to expand...

When you guys say PnP, what exactly do you mean? Are you ok with soldering (or something) three connections for power, ground, and signal? Or does this have to be 100% plug-it-in-and-it-just-works?

For anyone who hasn't taken their MEMCAL apart, there are two sets of contacts. On the ESC half of the MEMCAL, most of the outer contacts aren't used. The chips under the board use the inner set.

memcal4.jpg


You could probably just wedge the wires down into those contacts and it would work ok, especially if the unit was secured decently between the top of the ESC and the plastic cover. However, you'd probably want to solder it to make sure it maintains good contact.
 
skwayb

skwayb

NWSTP
Re: Interest in Knock LEDs?

InvisiBill said:
I'm not positive, but I've always understood that OBD2 is very standardized, whereas OBD1 is just "some data output". For example, bit 1 in OBD2 is always AFR, and bit 2 is always TPS, etc. whether it's a GM, Ford, Chrysler, or Honda. With OBD1, each vehicle uses its own configuration for the datastream. In a SyTy, bit 1 is TPS and bit 2 is AFR, but in a Buick bit 1 is O2 and bit 2 is TPS.

That's why you have all the different versions of Datamaster, and why you have the Scanmaster-type devices specific to each vehicle. Making something like the Aeroforce for a SyTy would mean that it would only work on a SyTy. Making it work on a different vehicle would mean completely reconfiguring it to match that vehicle's particular datastream.

I agree that it would be awesome, but these sorts of devices never seem to go anywhere for the SyTy due to the extremely low number of potential sales. I think we'll have to wait for someone with lots of excess cash and the ability to personally make these to get really into SyTy tuning before we get much in the way of this. =(
Click to expand...

Mark (TunerPro programmer) and Moates were looking into making something like this. They were going to have it so you could upload an ADS file (ALDL definition file) for your ODBI car so it know how to decode the ALDL stream. Then you could tell it what items to display on the gauge. But since ODBI is slowly dieing, I think they gave up on the idea.
 
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