Bowtie builds are fun..

blk00z28

Forced to by choice
So a few years ago I thought.. Hey, why not just get a set of alum heads and make a awesome street truck. Then I got a call from a friend who's buddies with someone who had a set of bowtie heads off of a N/A 4.3 motor. Yeah, alright. I bought them because they are in great condition, and 80% complete(just missing the rocker stands and bolts.) I buy the stands, shim kit, bolts, and extra bearings for the rockers. And now we're talking. A few months go by, I'm asking around on part numbers(something I seriously should have done first. Take note there) Come to find out I have a set of raised runner bowties. Not really used by to many people. Awesome, my builds going to be even more unique from everyone cause no one else has them. Which will make me feel good because I don't have to copy any one else. Yes.:

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Then, I try and find an intake to fit these baby's straight up. Seems none of the off the shelve intakes will bolt up. Matter of fact, good luck finding an intake that hasn't been milled yet to make work with the heads, so I'm told. (Which is actually more truth then you think, and great advice if you buy a set of heads without a intake with them..)

Fast forward a few months(like.. 9 to be exact.) I'm asking more questions. When the one person I'm talking to has a un-milled brodix intake that just happened to push him into the 8's. And its already got injector bungs welded in. Oh yeah, comes with the plenum, and fuel rails. Sweet.. in 4 days its at my house. (Funny, things from Cali take 2 weeks, but stuff from outside the US get here in 4 days..:roll:) But its a sweet intake, un-milled, perfect.

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So today, I go and figure out how I'm going to go about milling this nice $$ intake to fit my heads.

But wait, I also have to figure out how to get it to clear the valve covers too! No one told me this! :rotf: Why did I want to do this. Who gave me this idea.. :squint: It is rather fun though. I will say that. The flanges on the un-milled intakes are thick as shit, no wonder you can make them fit just about any head.

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I'd say it fits perfect, what do you guys think?
 

TYTILIDIE

METH HEAD
Re: Bowtie builds are fun..

Damn you're ****ing hosed there buddy. I feel for ya. Maybe you can build an intake from scratch?
 

Ty 1885

New member
Re: Bowtie builds are fun..

They make alum spacers to fit between intake and heads, and intake and block (front and back) for V8s. Getting them for V6 might be hard. You might have to make some yourself.
 

MikeRenz

not stock
Re: Bowtie builds are fun..

i was going to suggest making some intake spacers like Ty 1885 is talking about. I'd much sooner do that than mill that intake - if you ever want to sell it, it'll be useless to anyone else.

I'd be happy to work with you on making spacers.
 

ghettosled

SYTY SUPERSTORE
Re: Bowtie builds are fun..

fyi, i have spacers for 1203 and 1268 gaskets, 1/2 thick in stock. Could mill thinner if need be. We use them as bases to build the sheetmetal intakes. You would have to make something for the front and rear or buy some small block ones if available.
 

Silly

Banned
Re: Bowtie builds are fun..

We discussed this same scenerio in the chat about a year ago. (crazykease and I)

Just call Mike and get the spacers.
 

Windedv6

Ty n 10s
Re: Bowtie builds are fun..

We have done mods to these intakes before. It can not always be solved by spacers as you run into other issues as well. Getting the correct distributor height established, the bolt holes aligned, the valve covers cleared, the front and rear rails gapped correctly and in some cases you have to mill the bottom of the intake to set everything down into the “valley further. It is best to start with an intake that is a closer fit as there are several different ones that look the same but are cast very differently.


The #10093314 intakes works best with the bowtie 18* heads (#-359) and is less dificult to find. It was thick cast and gave some flexibility to be cut on different runner levels, ie; low or raised runners heads. Intakes cut for raised runner heads being the most difficult to fit. Also most of these intakes came off circle tracks that used angled cut head decks and modified ports.

I have 6 intakes on the shelf just so I can have one that matches close when I purchase heads. Four of those are the same #-3314 part number but they all fit differently.

Four 10093314 intakes that started out as the same casting but each one is modified differently...

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If you look closely you can tell that that the ports are higher or lower on different intakes (look at the ports in relationship to the bolt holes)...

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You can also see that the underside decks are machined to different thickness to allow the intake to sit at different heights...

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These varances are the reason many have fittment problems when matching intakes and heads.



The lil brodie intakes ( #B90 V6-1) will fit the vortecs and brodix -8 and -9 heads with little port matching. Then there is the odd sized Pontiac intake (10093388) which actually has the Pontiac symbol on it along with small Pontiac lettering. This intake should not to be confused with the one that says Pontiac/Brodix (the 10093314) on it as they are very different in fit.

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The ports are different on these also (look at the bolts in relationship to the bolt holes)...

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The Lil Brodies are hard to fine as they are a fit for our vortecs and also for the -8 and -10 Brodix heads. The Pontiac intake #10093388 will fit the Pontiac heads.

I hope this helps those that are looking for these intakes as well as bowtie heads. I get a lot of calls and PMs from board members that purchased heads and intakes and have had fitment issues.

John
 
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sy#2716

SyTy 4 Life
Re: Bowtie builds are fun..

wow nice post john. This needs to be saved in the vault so that people can use this info in the future.
 

Z SKI

Donating Member
Re: Bowtie builds are fun..

Great Info John :tup:

Tim, All you need is some .75" thick head gaskets and that puppy will drop right in there...:rotf:

I am real happy that Mike found me that B90V6-1 intake for my motor, It fit like a glove.

Good luck,
 

blk00z28

Forced to by choice
Re: Bowtie builds are fun..

Whats that old saying? When in doubt, mill it out. :D:D


I called up a buddy who had similar problems with his intake on his SBC blower motor (pic here: http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/syclone1713/100_0949.gif )We looked it over and said let's give it a shot. Took the block, heads, intake and valve covers over to another friends shop, where he just so happened to have a few Bridgeport milling machines lying around.:tup: I'll describe what I did/had to do to make this all work out. Some of it was pretty straight forward and rather easy, and some of it was difficult only because I didn't know if I wanted to go this far. But I said let's go for it.

I forgot to bring my dig camera with me while doing this. :oops: I'm kicking myself in the ass because I wanted some nice clear and clean pics of this build. So these pictures were taken with my 4 year old black berry pearl which has been through hell and back. So forgive the quality of pictures. I didn't get pictures of test fitting, because I only have two hands and for the most part this is pretty self explanatory.

Above I mentioned how the lip of the head where the intake bolts onto it caused a clearance problem with the intake runner flange. And that the bottom deck of the intake needed to be cut to lower the intake onto the heads.

We had some small flat sheets of alum lying around in the shop and put them onto the heads. Nothing we could mock up as spacers made this look any better, and in fact made it look like it would be harder to pull off. I'll explain more further down.


1.) Put the intake on the mill, and cleaned up the bottom deck side of the intake where it makes contact with the china walls. Really didn't take much off these areas, but did take off some material to lower the intake and create an even gap around all flanges. Started with the front of the intake, and then matched the height to the rear. Positioned the intake to where it would only take off the metal at the deck area, and not touch the runner flange when cutting:

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2.) After cutting the deck down some, we were still left with the runner flange making contact and hanging over the intake surface lip on the head. Back to the mill, this time vertically cutting the runner flange so it will clear that lip, started with a rough bit for the first cut and then switched over to a cleaner bit for the rest:

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3.) Test fit the intake, still didn't clear the lip on the heads. At this point I made a decision. The intake cost almost as much as the heads. But is harder to get now a days, let alone un-milled. So I did not want to screw up the intake.

Pulled the heads off, slapped them on the mill and took some of that lip off. The way the heads were cast from the factory, it looks like they didn't put to much care into the levelness of the casting around the lip, and onto the valve cover rail. The factory mill of this lip, or the intake flange on the head almost looks crooked, its not. But the way the cast and it was milled makes it look like it:

The lip:

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Milling time:
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Now there is a hairline ride there where the bit was taking out material, only because we didn't mill the angle of the intake mating surface. But its extremely low.


4.) Put the heads back on the block, test fit everything again. The intake fit, but was very tight. No problem, back on them mill for both the heads and intake. This time taking just a hair off of the both of them:

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The valve covers are the next thing in line to make fit. While the intake now sits on the heads perfectly. The valve covers still make contact on the runner flange on the intake. Thankfully RPM leaves a good amount of material on the flange on their sheet metal covers. I'm going to have to belt sand on a angle, the flange peak a little to clear the rest of the intake. No big problem. Doesn't need a lot.

One of the valve cover bolt holes that are in the lip that we milled on are peaking through. Only on ONE bolt hole though. When I said they didn't put care into the casting, or final milling of that flange. Maybe it was the location of the holes they really didn't make perfect. The hole is drilled through that part of the head, so it should have enough threads left to hold the bolt. If not, I'll drill it out some, and helicoil it.

Only real screw up was, and I'm not sure if it was our fault, or the machine. Because it was lined up good when it started milling. On the last vertical mill on the intake, we really didnt have a good idea of how much material it was taking off(yes, we started it, took about a half inch off and backed it up and looked it over.). It looked great at the line it was taking, only needed a small amount(compared to what we had already taken off of everything at this point) to make it work. When the mill got to the first runner port we could see it took a different line. Not sure how, but it cut a little closer to one port then the others. We stopped it, moved it out more and finished the mill. So on the side of the intake, where it meets that lip on the head it was sort of a wave in it near the port. You probably will never be able to see it, or tell so its no big deal. Just odd if you look at the intake by its self.

Now the intake ports match up side to side, but top and bottom they are still off from the head ports when the intake is sitting on the heads. You can see this if you look down inside the intake. There is a small air gap on the top of the ports. I'm going to have another buddy put some filler weld inside the upper portion of the ports, and then port match to the heads. This will bring the ports down, or in other words bend the flow more into the head and not more into the flange surface of the head. You'll never see it, and it won't be alot. The bottom side of the ports I have plenty of material on the intake flange to port match to the heads. Which is nice.

When I get the intake back I'll take more pictures of how it fits now on the heads, as well as some better pictures of the milling.

The distributor. I figured I might want to check how it fits and see if I'll have to take the factory cast collar off the stock dist before I go to far as well. So considering I have a bare block I'm doing this all on. I stuck a stock cam back in the block, put the intake (this was before any milling happened.) on the heads and put a stock dist back in. To my surprise, it actually sits pretty well in there. :) It mesh's with the cam gear very well, sits a tad high, but like I said this was before milling. I haven't checked it again after milling:

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So for the most part the intake to head problem is now finished. I just have to figure out if I'm going to go towards the drivers side, or forward with the plenum. The intake is only drilled for forward. I have both plenums for both styles. Just comes to personal preference and how other things play into it to factor how I go with it.

Going to file my taxes here in a few days, and hopefully use some of it to send the block off to the machine shop finally, and get this thing going faster.

Next project. Diy single turbo headers to clear the AC. :D Not sure yet if I'm going to keep the x-over in the factory location or if I'm going to try and bring it around the back side of the motor similar to the turbo buicks. :tup:
 
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SY2932

Administrator
Re: Bowtie builds are fun..

Git-r-done :cool:! Man that ruffing end mill in the fourth picture looks like it has been around the block a time or two. Looks like the teeth are worn off :eek:... I can see that you set up the head against the slot in the table to get it in parallel to the machine travel in the "X". I bet that if you would have ran a dial indicator across it after you set it up, you would have seen it was kicked a little. Looks good regardless. Hope to see some better pics once you get everything together :)!
 

blk00z28

Forced to by choice
Re: Bowtie builds are fun..

LOL, now that I look at the pic it does look like its been beat to death huh. It must have just been the picture, because it was actually a good bit. Just not the type for a smooth finish like I was looking to have. I don't think I got a picture of the second bit we used, without it spinning, but it was brand new.

We ran the bit edge down the face of the head each time we positioned it on the mill before starting it up, and made sure it was square. It was pretty dead on. The other mill he had, the digital read out was giving him problems and didn't trust it. Which is why we used the older style one. But it did come out very good. No angled cuts actually. But thats for the info. And I'll try and get more pics in a few days.
 

blk00z28

Forced to by choice
Re: Bowtie builds are fun..

I dropped the intake off to my buddy who's a awesome welder. Ill post up pics when I get it back sometime during the week. :)
 
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