Bad vibration at higher rpm

pinellas50

New Guy
Where to start? OK my motor has always had a slight vibration to it at heavy to WOT throttle. The vibration always seemed to show up around 3200 to 3400 rpm. I have solid motor mounts and in the past it kind of felt like the motor at idle. I did a full tune up on the truck and replaced all vacuum lines. New fuel filter as well.

A few months ago, the motor ate a head gasket. It burnt through a fire ring and compromised the cooling system. This led to coolant getting into a cylinder and burning off. I pulled the motor down and visually checked the pistons. All seemed to come up the exact same height so I didn't think there was any problem with a bent rod or anything. I put the motor back together with fresh L35 heads. I put #1 at TDC and the harmonic balancer was dead on with the timing mark. I didn't see any wobble to it when I was setting base timing.

After that I never ran the truck out at WOT. In the back of my head was the fear that the new heads might cause fueling problems with the stock system. I had done several 1/2 to 3/4 throttle pulls up to that vibration point and found that it was still there. I pulled the prop shaft out and the vibration remained.

I recently got Datamaster and decided to take it out and log what it is doing on a WOT pull. Well, that vibration is 100 times worse now. Once it got up into the mid to upper 3000 rpm range, it shook the crap out of the truck and it felt like power started to drop off. I backed out of the throttle when it did this. Afterwards, it still ran the same as it has at part throttle.....really smooth.

Datamaster showed that when the vibrations started, KR spiked to 4.6 and then slowly started backing down.

So, I believe that this is a mechanical issue given all this. But what? The things that come to mind are the balancer, torque converter, or god forbid a bent rod.

Where do I start? And yes, I did search this as well and spent quite some time finding post after post that never came to someone's conclusion as to what was causing their issues.

I have the datamaster file saved and I'm working on getting a way to post it.

Any ideas on where I need to start?
 
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Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: Bad vibration at higher rpm

If you rev the motor in neutral is the vibration still there? If you run the truck up to 3200+ (don't get a ticket) with just enough throttle to get there is the vibration still there? If both of these are no then I'd still suspect something else. Like the rear u-joints. If either is yes, especially the first, then it's obviously the motor or maybe the flexplate or TC. How's the fuel pressure when this happens? Might be going lean on ya. All just my :2cents:
 

Tooky

Serious about performance
Re: Bad vibration at higher rpm

I looked at your DM file. Your WOT shifts are very low. 1-2 happens at only 3950 RPM. It should be more like 4200 RPM or higher. It's bringing your 2nd gear down to 2750 RPM which might be so low as to possibly cause this vibration. (Have you ever driven a manual trans car and put it in 5th gear at 25 mph and tried to floor it??).

To solve your shift RPM issue, I would start by carefully double checking your TV cable setting. There is a proper way to set it and I think there's a video on www.sportmachines.com just to eliminate any confusion.

Your PROMID is 00381. Sounds like it might be an ATR Pitbull chip? Your boost control is absolutely dreadful. Only 10 PSI in 1st, and then it drops, and finally surges to 14.7 near the top of 2nd. On my truck I could never get the goofy stock electronic boost control to work and I ended up switching to a $40 BoostValve.com controller and it was one of the best bang-for-the-buck mods I ever did. Night and day difference.

PS: Do you have any pics of the burned fire ring on the head gasket you could share with me?
 

pinellas50

New Guy
Re: Bad vibration at higher rpm

Tooky said:
PS: Do you have any pics of the burned fire ring on the head gasket you could share with me?
2477250_69_full.jpg


2477250_70_full.jpg
 

Tooky

Serious about performance
Re: Bad vibration at higher rpm

We're both posting simultaneously, heh. I just edited my post #4 after looking at your DM file, wanted to make sure you saw it. Thanks for those pics of the head gasket too. :tup:

It could just be the photo but I think I see some blue - is that possibly a FelPro head gasket? (The one known to fail prematurely in our application.)
 

pinellas50

New Guy
Re: Bad vibration at higher rpm

Yeah. I'm next to certain it was a Fel Pro. I've seen that same color many times when doing Ford head gaskets. It has Victor gaskets on it now.

This vibration starts in before the shift. In either 1st or second. So I don't believe it has anything to do with a low sift point. I know what you are talking about with a 5 speed car down low.....my vibration is more violent than that.

But I'll address the shift point later. Boost control also. I need to get on top of this issue first.

I have never pulled the ECM down to look at what chip is in it so your guess is far better than mine. I have always ASSUMED that it was stock seeing that everything else on the truck was stock when I got it.

And thanks for looking at that file for me Tooky. I still have a lot of learning to do with reading Datamaster and understanding what it's telling me.
 

Tooky

Serious about performance
Re: Bad vibration at higher rpm

Hmm if it's not the shift points then I'm not sure what the issue is. Your RPM looks "clean" in the log otherwise. About that chip 00831 - according to this page: http://syty.org/old/promguide.html, there is a Typhoon stock chip with that same ID. So if that's true, then it's not necessarily a Pitbull, only way to be sure is to pull the ECM. If you want to take a look, WyoSyclone wrote a great photo-guide to pulling the ECM: http://www.detroitturbo.com/wiki/do...evices_sensor_module_wires_to_the_factory_ecm

EDIT: I did notice in your log at record #278, you are just cruising around lightly, and when the TCC (Torque converter clutch) locks up, it suddenly has 4.7* knock??? Do you notice any other problems with your TCC lockup?
 

pinellas50

New Guy
Re: Bad vibration at higher rpm

Come to think of it, I was cruising around last night just monitoring with the knock warning box on. I also noticed that it would knock when it went into OD according to that warning box thing. I haven't noticed anything unusual with the way the trans shifts or anything.

I was also told that the trans was rebuilt. Granted that would have been back around 2003 or so but it has had very few miles on the truck since then. I have no way of knowing if the convertor was replaced or anything like that.
 

pinellas50

New Guy
Re: Bad vibration at higher rpm

Anyone else have something like this and figure out what caused it?

I started the truck and watched all the front accessories. No wobbly fan, water pump pulley, etc. Everything seemed rock solid.

I have recently read some stuff about cracked flex plates. I guess you just pop the cover off and look for cracks? Can you even see the bolts that hold it to the crank with the converter in there? I'll do that next.

With bent rods, would you be able to physically see a problem with your eyes? I crudly measured TDC on all cylinders and they all seemed the same. Admitedly, I could have been off by a millimeter. Any expierenced opinions here? Compression test?

Torque converter.....I guess the only way to know here is put a new one on. But I have yet to actually read someone who said their converter had actually failed like this.

The problem is this thing has slowly been bleeding me dry. I don't have the money to just go randomly throwing at it right now. I've been working on cars for over 20 years and I have never had anything like this so I'm at a loss. If something isn't obvious to me here the only diagnostic routine I have is to keep driving it until the culprit fails.....then I'll know what it was. It still seems to be just fine under normal driving so I'll just stick to that. :tdown:
 
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pinellas50

New Guy
Re: Bad vibration at higher rpm

Tooky.....now I see where you are coming from:

http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=53361&highlight=converter

Is it possible that the converter is locking up and this is when this vibration occurrs. Like it is messed up and can't hold that much power when locked? Does that datamaster file show when the TCC locks up? Is there any correlation between that and when the shudder starts? I wish I knew how to read that file better and not ask such noob questions!

I also found how to disable the lock up function of the converter so I'll try that too and see what happens if I don't find anything visual with the converter/flex plate.
 
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pinellas50

New Guy
Re: Bad vibration at higher rpm

OK. So I pulled the converter cover off and had a look see. All the bolts were tight and I did not see any type of cracks or damage what so ever to the flex plate. So I pulled the white connector to disable the converter lock up and took it for a spin.

Now I really don't know what to think. The problem is still there but it was much less violent this time. I am guessing that the converter was locked on the last pull but not this time and that kept the serious vibration from transmitting to the truck????? Just a guess.

Anyway, now I am starting to think this might not be mechanical related at all. When it started in with it's non sense this time it sounded like mabey it is an ignition problem. The best way to describe what I heard was kind of like a 2 step. Like power was coming on, cutting out, coming on, etc but very fast.

I ran a log on it. Knock was still present but not as significant. Down in the 2's now.

I then backed that run up with my normal playing around type of stuff which is usually no more than 1/2 throttle with none of this vibration stuff.

Here is the file. Opinions...........please. I'm at a loss now.

http://www.mediafire.com/?9mggnxdlwqn

I did view this file and I wasn't seeing anything that suggested fuel or spark was intermittent causing that 2 step thing. But again, I really don't know what I am doing with datamaster yet.

Oh, I also held the revs up while in neutral to see if the vibration and all was there without being under load. I had it up as high as about 4200 for a split second. I don't believe that there is any vibration on free rev. If there is any, I didn't notice it. I'm not sure what I was "feeling" the first time I reved it................but that first time I was just giving it real quick stabs at the throttle and releasing it as opposed to intentionally holding it for a second like tonight.

All of this really has me feeling a little better about this. That this actually might not be something mechanical===$. I hope it's not a false sense of security.
 
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pinellas50

New Guy
Re: Bad vibration at higher rpm

Well, I ran into a friend from church tonight. Turns out he was a master tech for Chevy when the Sy/Ty's came out. He was also the go to guy anytime one came in with a problem. Awsome resource for me!

He drove the truck and he is convinced that it is running out of fuel. That makes sense to me seeing as it is happening when the demand for fuel is the highest. He didn't think the L35's would be any kind of problem on the stock system.

So, I guess it's time to put that Walboro at the top of my list. Then rearrange that to do list to have a FP and wide band guage at the top of it.


Still no opinions?
 

Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: Bad vibration at higher rpm

Uh,, back on post 2, I asked how was the fuel pressure? Might be goin' lean on ya. Won't know for sure of course until you change the pump but if I'm right that's about my average, 1 in a 100.:rotf:
 

pinellas50

New Guy
Re: Bad vibration at higher rpm

Yeah, you sure did. I've never had a vehicle have a fueling issue like this to know what it does. And I was convinced at first that it was mechanical...........Anyway, I'm on board with you now.

Looks like the credit card is gonna see a Walboro and what ever harness I remember seeing people talk about to go with the pump. Racetronics or something like that. I'll find it again.

Further bulletins as events warrant.
 

Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: Bad vibration at higher rpm

No prob. Keep us posted. And if you don't have a fuel pres. gauge then get one. It can really help. Just don't mount it directly on the manifold, they apparently tend to break there because of the additional weight. In the cab is best so you can watch it under boost. Local vendors sell nice adapter hoses to get you from the manifold to a sender.
 

pinellas50

New Guy
Re: Bad vibration at higher rpm

OK. Now I'm slightly confused.

Do I need this Racetronix wiring kit?

racetron.JPG


It looks like it basicly a completely new wiring system for the pump. Is the factory wiring not sufficient? I never used anything like this when putting these pumps in **cough** Fords **cough**
 

Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: Bad vibration at higher rpm

If you already own one then yes. Otherwise, highly recommended. It supplies full voltage through a larger wire, to avoid any voltage drop issues, to the fuel pump. You will want to do this at the same time you R&R your pump. Well worth it IMHO. It re-wires the pump so that the "load" of the pump does not go through the fuse panel. That circuit becomes just a switching circuit.

HTH
 

pinellas50

New Guy
Re: Bad vibration at higher rpm

OK. I need a new fuel pump housing.

One of the nuts on the end of the metal line coming out of the assembly, that goes into one of the fuel lines, rusted/siezed onto the metal line. By the time I realized there was a problem, the metal line had already twisted and closed up.

EDIT: I have a new one on the way. Thanks all.
 
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