Torque Converter Help

[0966Sy]

Re: Torque Converter Help

Torque converters are an art. While it is easy to say "install brand x converter" or "use this stall", the truth is that you need to work with a good company that will build a converter based on your build.

GM already did, they used a 2200 stall TC from the factory. The stock and 20g turbo's are simply not enough turbo to require a 2800+ TC.

 

[qbnkiller]

Re: Torque Converter Help

GM already did, they used a 2200 stall TC from the factory. The stock and 20g turbo's are simply not enough turbo to require a 2800+ TC.

So you really think that "a 20g turbo" would be just fine with a stock converter because it isn't that much different than a 16g, and GM did all the testing. If they were the same or very similar, then why upgrade? I can assure you that one of Nolan's 20G turbos would definitely benefit from a properly-matched converter over a stock GM converter. Hell...a well-tuned truck will pick up with the right converter - even with the stock turbo!

To each their own! I would recommend you get data from your build, and go talk to a good converter company. As I said, my response is not the easy one, but it will be correct for your truck because it would be built based on your build characteristics.

 

[5678TA]

Re: Torque Converter Help

You have answered your own question several times. First of all I have not used a higher stall TC other than stock on my 20g. I have used the stock 20g actuator and the forge unit and that is what increased my spool time from being kinda slow compared to stock to wicked fast like the stocker. I also could not yeild more than 10psi with the 20g actuator.

I dont know how you assume that the actuator is going to be closed from vacuum till 10psi, a wastgate actuator does not use engine vacuum to hold it closed.

The initial wait time you speak of is related to the wastegate begining to open as early as 2-5psi, as soon as it begins to open you are venting exhuast past the turbine thus slowing spool. The same theory is used to control boost level's, thats the wastegate functioning as intended.

The stock 20g actuator I tested when applying pressure with a hand held pump on the bench it would begin to open at 5psi, the stock wastegate would open as early as 2psi. My forge gate does not begin to open untill 13-14psi on the bench. This allow's the full amount of exhuast to reach the turbine resulting in faster spool up.

People see the results with faster spool up on a 20g with a 2800TC becuase your increasing the amount of exhaust that spools the turbine with RPM. IMO you are loosing valuble rpm powerband a stock engine is known for. Espeacially on the street, you will loose mpg as well. Simply put, a 2800TC is NOT matched for a 20g.

i see. would have thought the stocker would move at closer to 8psi. i know the actuator is a boost only reference, i figured it was a given that it would be closed during vacuum. this makes sense though. glad we got that cleared up.

 

[0966Sy]

Re: Torque Converter Help

So you really think that "a 20g turbo" would be just fine with a stock converter because it isn't that much different than a 16g, and GM did all the testing. If they were the same or very similar, then why upgrade? I can assure you that one of Nolan's 20G turbos would definitely benefit from a properly-matched converter over a stock GM converter. Hell...a well-tuned truck will pick up with the right converter - even with the stock turbo!

To each their own! I would recommend you get data from your build, and go talk to a good converter company. As I said, my response is not the easy one, but it will be correct for your truck because it would be built based on your build characteristics.

The stock 16g and a "factory" 20g mitsu are not much differant, we are not comparing or talking about Nolans crazy ass powerfull 20g. And of course a well tuned truck will benefit more from a TC upgrade, we are talking about your average joe installing a 20g onto a stock truck. A stock SyTy does not "NEED" a 2800 9/11 to perform well. The average joe also isnt tuning with BS3 himself, he's looking for parts with off the shelf performance.

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Torque Converter Help

The stock 16g and a "factory" 20g mitsu are not much differant, A stock SyTy does not "NEED" a 2800 9/11 to perform well.

True... the compressor wheels are not much different...... but there is a huge difference between the turbine housings 8CM & a 14 CM + the turbine wheel is bigger & heavier.

It's Like going from a .55 AR to a .96 AR approx that is a huge difference!.

I always try to stay on the tight side as far as stalls on converters .I say approx 2600 stall should work pretty good for a 20G turbo. I would like a 2400 stall for my 12 CM housing.
Once the converter locks up your MPH should not loose much.

My friends 911 coverter brake stalls to 3400+ rpm way too much for a stock Sy Ty engine. The RPM band is too low to run such a converter.

What surprized me is on my Moms 99 Olds Intriege the TC brakes stalls to 2800 & thats stock w a 3.8 V-6

 

[0966Sy]

Re: Torque Converter Help

I always try to stay on the tight side as far as stalls on converters .I say approx 2600 stall should work pretty good for a 20G turbo. I would like a 2400 stall for my 12 CM housing.
Once the converter locks up your MPH should not loose much.

My friends 911 coverter brake stalls to 3400+ rpm wat too much for a stock Sy Ty engine. The RPM band is too low to run such a converter.

I agree 100% I think a 2500-2600 would be perfect, the key is to having one made that is not a 12" and will actually flash stall to that RPM.

I think anything over 3000 is asking for to much and powerband will be affected for sure

 

[Syclone22]

Re: Torque Converter Help

I certainly see your point. That is why I am asking everyone to include the specifications for it. I am trying to educate myself with what has worked for builds similar to mine because I don't have a lot to work with here in North Dakota. It sucks. No dyno's anywhere near here and the tracks are up to 3 hours away and closed most of the year because of the weather. The better I understand what I am looking for the easier it will be to get the one I need.

The best perfomance part i ever did is change to a
higher stall converter it has the best turbo spool up compared
to the stock unit i have a very low mile 9/11 Kenne Bell unit
for sale it has a 2800- 3000 flash stall with a 1 to 2 gear slip then locks up
to hit those hi speeds up top P.M me if interested :tup:

 

[MAK]

Re: Torque Converter Help

Do you mean your shifting it from D to OD on the shifter or letting the transmission shift to OD? You are not going to fall out of OD unless you get a forced downshift based on RPM and vehicle speed. Or if you touch the brake pedal. Sounds to me like your getting a OD shudder.

FYI the vette 700R TC's our the same as ours 2200

It is doing it while gear selector is on OD, not manual shifts. I do not manually shift it that often.

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Torque Converter Help

Our TC is definately not the corvette TC. The codes on my stock syclone TC rated it about 1650rpm. The 86/87 vette stall rates it ~2025rpm (88 up c4 auto got a 1400rpm TC), I had an 86. If you have the looser corvette's TC in your typhoon it would definitely, skew your 20g 14cm2 spool up results.

On a side note at the track I launch my Syclone at 2300 rpm and my corvette at 2400 rpm with the stock TC.

 

[MAK]

Re: Torque Converter Help

A stock truck should yeild near 2200 RPM.

The stall looks to be right at 2000 rpm.

 

[MIXEDBREED]

Re: Torque Converter Help

There is ZERO replacement for YOUR data! You can stuff a 9/11 converter in there and be like most. Or you can do what your particular truck wants. You will likely have two very different results. Mine is not the easy answer, but it is the right one.

Good luck!

+1 alex

OP

Converters are often over looked as not that important but really can change the entire outcome as far as et wise. The top companies will want to know the spec of your entire build- cam, power levels, n/a or turbo or supercharger, are you foot braking or will you be using a trans brake ect then they will build a converter for you. Also some will even restall the converter for free if you feel you need to change the stall speed later. You want a good billet converter with anti balloon plate and will need to choose from single disc to triple disc converter. You power level alone can change the flash stall of the converter a good bit if its not right.

I use FTI converters and they have worked great for me on all my race vehicles.

 

[0966Sy]

Re: Torque Converter Help

Our TC is definately not the corvette TC. The codes on my stock syclone TC rated it about 1650rpm. The 86/87 vette stall rates it ~2025rpm (88 up c4 auto got a 1400rpm TC), I had an 86. If you have the looser corvette's TC in your typhoon it would definitely, skew your 20g 14cm2 spool up results.

On a side note at the track I launch my Syclone at 2300 rpm and my corvette at 2400 rpm with the stock TC.

Century performance who built my 700r if I remember correctly told me they where the same. I trusted him with there reputation here in Texas and it's run great for years. I will double check my stall tomarow, pretty sue it's 2100-2200.

MAK, I dont believe there is anything wrong with your TC. Try changing the fluid to some royal purple ATF, I have seen realy good results with almost 80F lower differance in fluid temps just by changing ATF. Im going to be putting it in my TY soon just becuase i couldnt believe how well it worked.

After changing the fluid it may correct your shudder problem, what it sounds like to me.

 

[Syclone#2960]

Re: Torque Converter Help

Century performance who built my 700r if I remember correctly told me they where the same. I trusted him with there reputation here in Texas and it's run great for years. I will double check my stall tomarow, pretty sue it's 2100-2200.

MAK, I dont believe there is anything wrong with your TC. Try changing the fluid to some royal purple ATF, I have seen realy good results with almost 80F lower differance in fluid temps just by changing ATF. Im going to be putting it in my TY soon just becuase i couldnt believe how well it worked.

After changing the fluid it may correct your shudder problem, what it sounds like to me.

On the RP stuff...lets change it on the Ty 1st to make sure the temp drops as much as the sy did.

 

[TYHOGG]

Re: Torque Converter Help

According to my time slips i dropped .371 seconds off my quater mile time with the 2800 stall conveter that was installed at the time of the trans rebuild. Every other part of the truck was same as before. I do not know the atomosphereic conditioins between the 2 runs witch can play a differnce.

 

[Beavis]

Re: Torque Converter Help

+1 alex

OP

Converters are often over looked as not that important but really can change the entire outcome as far as et wise. The top companies will want to know the spec of your entire build- cam, power levels, n/a or turbo or supercharger, are you foot braking or will you be using a trans brake ect then they will build a converter for you. Also some will even restall the converter for free if you feel you need to change the stall speed later. You want a good billet converter with anti balloon plate and will need to choose from single disc to triple disc converter. You power level alone can change the flash stall of the converter a good bit if its not right.

I use FTI converters and they have worked great for me on all my race vehicles.

This is exactly what Precision Industries (http://www.converter.com/) and I talked about when I ordered mine. Going with a 2800 might be a little too much in some peoples opinion. You would probably be fine with something lower like a 2500-2600.

I can tell you, my PI 2800-5 disc on my 80e with a 12cm exhaust, spools like a bitch. The boost is exactly like a light switch, INSTANT ON!!!!
It launches harder, pulls harder, keeps the motor in a great rpm range, and when it locks, it holds strong. It is a great converter that could do everything you would want and be altered for future upgrades if/when they take place.:tup:
One of the questions you need to ask yourself, how much do you want/willing to spend? A great converter will be expensive, but it will include some nice extras. I chose PI because of the power rating, free restall (have to pay shipping), reputation, the fact that they supply parts to other major converter manufactures, and the (if needed) rebuild/restall price if out of warranty.:2cents:

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Torque Converter Help

I can tell you, my PI 2800-5 disc on my 80e with a 12cm exhaust, spools like a bitch.
,:

Just curious if PI says it is OK to have your 5 disc converter locked up & shift through the gears?
I believe it's OK?

One of these days I will get a better converter & I am positive it will make my Sy run better than my stocker.

THX.

 

[MAK]

Re: Torque Converter Help

Has anyone used these or heard anything about them?

http://revmaxconverters.com

Just looking at options.

 

[strada]

Re: Torque Converter Help

Now that you're taking about converters, i bought a kenne bell 3000 converter used low miles years ago but i've never installed.would this work on a stock engine? Will work better or worse. Thanks in advance

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Torque Converter Help

Now that you're taking about converters, i bought a kenne bell 3000 converter used low miles years ago but i've never installed.would this work on a stock engine? Will work better or worse. Thanks in advance

I would have to say no, it will spool faster, but will put the engine RPM out of the peak torque range.

It seems most people that have run a 3000 stall converter, it just blows the tires away & have problems hooking up.

Is it a lock-up or non lock-up?

Non lock-up, mileage will drop.
I think for a stock engine KB recommended a lower stall for a stock engine, plus IIRC, it was a 12" lock-up converter , what size is your 3000 stall?, I have that old catalog somewhere.

:2cents:

 

[strada]

Re: Torque Converter Help

Yes 3000,don't know about the lock up, bought it from ghettosled on 2005. Don't remember