Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)

BoostedSUV

Active member
Ok Guys, it has been requested of me to start a new thread (based of my "One Last Shot" thread) to try and compile and condense everything I have tried to attempt to solve my truck's breaking up through the exhaust issues. I know the other thread got long (46 pages/700 posts) and it was getting hard to follow and jump on board. Please bear with me, there's a lot of info and I'm sure I've forgotten a lot.....


Dating back to 2006 I've had a very RPM specific "misfire" through the exhaust at cruising speeds when the trucks warms up. The RPM spots were 1100, 1900, and 2500 consistantly (with the 50# injectors). I've since changed to 65's and the miss moved up the scale about 300 RPM's and is now at 2200, and 2800. The lower RPM "misses" are more like a slight quick hesitation, but the 2500 (which is now 2800) is very drastic and more pronounced. At the time of the miss the O2 counts drop below 100 (indicating lean) and the WBO2 climbs to 17+ also indicating lean. The S-term counts jump to +42 if I hold the throttle position at the specific RPM and it will continue to "miss", but the truck will not clear up until I continue to increase throttle position to get passed it. During hard acceleration, at WOT, anything in boost, or anywhere passed 3000rpm's the truck runs perfect. It only seems to act up when I slowly increase spead or throttle to the "trouble spots" I can hear the popping out of the exaust and not the intake...

How it all started: I did not noticed this issue until I had a full rebuild done on the motor (.030 over, eagle rods, srp pistons, 412 cam, stock heads etc) after blowing up the original motor. With the new motor I added an ultimate chip, 50#er's, an A2A IC, AFPR, and relocated battery. That's all... Since that time the motor has been out 4 times (don't ask) and each time I put the motor in the problem still existed. Even after I swapped over to Vortec heads, different lower intake, custom Nolan tune (after the last removal). That's the gist of the "issue" and the point it started..the truck ONLY does it when it warms up to operating temps, it runs and idles perefect cold. Also the truck (once warm) idles steady at 850 but the O2 and WBO2 bounce all over the place. The problem has come and gone at times, and gets less noticable when it's "gone" but right now it's not even really drivable. The truck will fall on it's face when it hits those RPMS and miss and bucks until it get beyond them. I haven't driven the truck since June, and I have been determined to solve this once and for all since then...

now for what I tried.

new ECM
new Distributor (went from MSD to a stock tester)
changed coil pickup and ign module in MSD prior to changing
2 different O2 sesnors
new map sensor
replaced engine wire harness
replaced injector harness
swapped coils
new plugs/wires/cap/rotor
moved plug gap from .025 to .022
chased grounds and added grounds
ran truck with out alternator (looking for elec feedback)
new fuel pump
checked AFPR
new injectors
switched from Ultimate chip to Moates adapter and Nolan tune
ran truck on stock memcal
leak down tested the motor
changed throttle bodies
new TPS and IAC (verified both work)
new upper intake and TB gaskets
New vac line kit (vac tested each line)
verified all sensors operate properly
scoped the dizzy and checked for spark 'drop out'
verified timing at specific RPM's (stays solid)
Fuel Pressure is perfect and rises and falls as it's suposed to
ran with Cat and no Cat
ran truck with O2 connected and disconnected (to test open vs closed loop operation)
changed FP (gets worse when raise pressure/gets better when lower pressure)
Tested grounds with VM
tested voltage to injectors (13.8 at all times)
ran ECM voltage fix (13.8v)
Vacuum reads 18ish at Idle and doesn't do anything crazy with increased RPM
Checked PCV system (best way to my knowledge)
Verified TDC mark on balancer
ran truck with and without MSD 6A connected


I'm sure I forgot some things... I'm in the process of reading through 46 pages and pulling out the important stuff. I'm sure stuff will get added on by others!
 
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BoostedSUV

Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)

One thing I forgot to add is I was also having a hard starting issue.. when the truck got warmed up it wouldn't fire up unless I held it WOT. I datamastered the truck during cranking and I was getting 6k RPM spikes while cranking and the INJ DC jumped to 96% and was flooding the motor. Could be unrelated to this issue and since I have changed dizzys I haven't gotten much test time to see if the MSD dizzy was causing that specific issue...
 

Quickstop [UK]

Combating adversyty.
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)

Have you had a signal guy look at the signal to the ignition and the injectors?

Get an oscilloscope on it and see the signal waveform and you'll see if your ignition or your injectors are causing the problem...

This is a really intriguing problem. Have you read up on gjp's idle/misfire thread? That was another mammoth investigation.Might have some clues.

I really think your ignition/injector signal will give you a clue. Impressive persistence - keep at it!
 

BoostedSUV

Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)

Have you had a signal guy look at the signal to the ignition and the injectors?

Get an oscilloscope on it and see the signal waveform and you'll see if your ignition or your injectors are causing the problem...

This is a really intriguing problem. Have you read up on gjp's idle/misfire thread? That was another mammoth investigation.Might have some clues.

I really think your ignition/injector signal will give you a clue. Impressive persistence - keep at it!

I wouldnt even have the first clue on where to find a "signal guy". I've always done all of my own work and have never had to pay anyone to do work for me. I know a few mechanics from my drag racing hobby but I don't know if any of them could handle such an extensive diagnosis.

A few people have suggested a tach signal interference but I haven't really figured out how to determine that. I guess an o-scope would tell me a lot but I wouldn't know the first thing about how to use one or where to get one.... I have got to believe it's some sort of elec interference based on the consistency of the breaking up. Its just weird that it moved up in the RPM range with larger injectors.


I didn't change the injector harness when I did the engine harness but I wonder if the gremlins could be in there?
 

BoostedSUV

Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)

reset the iac? what are your iac numbers in DM?
I'm pretty sure I reset the IAC before and I even tried another one. I haven't looked at the DM files in a while but I think the IAC counts were in the 30s.
 

Ty 1885

New member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)

Check the volts at the fuel pump. Mine was running funny, fuel psi was fine at the gauge. It would stumble sometimes, could not figure it out till i checked volts at the pump. I could not belive that it was only 7 1/2 volts running! Ran new bigger wire form ecm to pump, runs good now!
 

BoostedSUV

Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)

Motor has been out 3 or so times during the course of the years, I would hope that a wiped cam lobe would been caught...



I also have racetronix harness wired off the ALT right to the fuel pump so I'm getting 13.8 to the pump.
 

MikeRenz

not stock
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)

fuel obviously is a factor if it changes w/ FP and changed when you changed injectors. Have you tried a new injector harness, or tested the harness itself?
 

Raist103

Engine Killer, iPhone Killer, Lawnmower Killer
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)

after thinking about it and talking with some buddies we think it is fuel related for sure. it seems from what you said the only time you have seen any difference is when you adjust the fuel reg. have you swapped this out yet? the diaphrgam inside could be bad. i would swap this out and put a fuel gauge before and after to see what you have. that could also cause the hard start once warm issue as well. leaking fuel flooding it out.
 

BoostedSUV

Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)

Don I took the fuel reg apart and everything looked good. It holds pressure for hours as well. I have a FP gauge on the test port and it does not move when the truck breaks up. It acts completely normal.


Mike the only part of the engine harness I didn't swap is the injector harness and the jumper from the coil to the dizzy. Everything else was swapped out. I did check voltage at each injector and everything was normal, even during the "miss".
 

MikeRenz

not stock
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)

The 2 pieces that you didn't swap seem pretty relevant to your problems. Do you have a local syty that you could just yank those 2 pieces quick and try them out? If not, i'd at least remove the injector harness and check the resistance across all the points from injector to main connector. To me it sounds like you have a magical voltage-current drop/ignition based/spark arcing/type of issue...i've had plug wires cuase rpm based breakup due to the wires seemingly being too thick and not having enough coil power to fire through them.

What wires do you use? How do you have them routed? Are they all equal length? Do you have the ziptied together and bolted to any w/ metal retaining clips? One simple thing to try just to make sure you aren't getting any arc is just make sure all the wires are routed alone and not touching other wires. worth the effort just to rule it out.
 

BoostedSUV

Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)

Mike I just swapped out my MSD wires for a brand new set of Taylor wires. I bought the kit for the Typhoon and not just a universal 4.3 V6. The wires are routed over the valve covers and not zip tied to the engine harness. I have # 1 zip tied to the cruise bracket since is soo damn long but the rest just follow along the valve cover. The wires literally have 5 miles on them...


I would like to rule out inj harness but one wasn't available whan I bought the engine bay harness. I may be able to borrow one and try it somebody is willing or has an extra...
 

Raist103

Engine Killer, iPhone Killer, Lawnmower Killer
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)

I have my injector harness and maybe another you could borrow to try. Just started doing my motor agan so would need it back asap. Let me know
 

bezerk

New member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)

have you checked your feulcanister thing?? what if it's full, and it sucks in feul if there is no checkvalve?
 

WyoSyclone

Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)

Hey Matt, I just read the 2006 thread... in that thread you said the problem went away with a new eprom and ecm. This past Fall I was tuning and had a chip go bad on me (had been programmed probably a hundred times). Craig Moates said he hardly ever sees a chip go bad.... but, it caused my Sy to run kind of like yours.
 

BoostedSUV

Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)

Hey Matt, I just read the 2006 thread... in that thread you said the problem went away with a new eprom and ecm. This past Fall I was tuning and had a chip go bad on me (had been programmed probably a hundred times). Craig Moates said he hardly ever sees a chip go bad.... but, it caused my Sy to run kind of like yours.

I think that may have been total coincidence. I've since changed ECMs twice and I have tried 2 different eproms with different tunes. I have also tried running the truck on the stock memcal with the same results.

Its funny because this problem showed its face again after removing my A/F gauge which was tapped in the O2 signal wire. And adding an FP sensor to the rail. That was my thoughts for changing the engine harness. Honestly aside from the short block everything has been changed at one time or another... The problem seems to come and go and I can't pin point it or make go away now. Its still there when it's "gone" it's just way more drivable and less prominent
 
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