Radiators...whats best?

T

tunerpike

Donating Member
Re: Radiators...whats best?

DaveP said:
In GM engines, the ECT ("computer") sensor is always mounted in the intake manifold adjacent to the thermostat so it indicates an average temperature of both heads.

The knock sensor is usually mounted in a "wet" hole because sound is better conducted through liquid. Not all "2 hole heads" have both holes exposed to water. Some early heads have dry holes, and are often not plugged.

The CPI L35's like the SonomaGT have 2 knock sensors. There is one on the rear of the right cyl head mounted in a dry hole. The driver's side head knock sensor is in a wet hole, and the temp sensor is on the passenger side. The sensors are wired in parallel to a single input in the ECM. Either sensor can trigger knock retard.

I'm not aware of any other sensors installed on the heads.
Click to expand...

Coming back to me now..
My truck was a 95 TBI (Z Vin).. it had 2 knock sensors... seems like one of the knock sensors may have had a pigtail on it while the other didn't.. the sensor posted in the pic was the coolent temp, above it would have been a knock sensor. The Knock sensors where only a single wire, they gain there ground through the block.

Just an FYI..
What I mean by obd1.5 is that it had a ob2 hookup, but the electronic behind it was obd1.. the computer was under the dash...
 
BowTy

BowTy

New member
Re: Radiators...whats best?

For the sake of giving additional info for those looking to do a different radiator setup, its oil coolers etc, and if you don’t mind DaveP with me adding to your excellent in-depth contributions, though you might already know these. Getting the engine oil up quickly to normal temps is very important and it would greatly benefit any owner to understand why. Oil will not flow well when cold, but we know that, though even as it warms, it’s still not flowing fully, or at the best viscosity for filling, covering and protecting the internal parts of the engine. If you hammer a cold, or cool engine, you risk accelerated wear. No it won’t die right away, but its hard on the engine’s internals (bearings, gears, rings etc).

New/nearly new/low mileage BMW M3 and M5 engines back a few years ago had a number of catastrophic failures, and with the many posts on the internet, BMW got serious, and determined owners were hitting too much high rpm loads for the lubrication system to handle at cold, cool oil temps (why they did not incorporate engine management safeties is beyond me). They even had Castrol come up with a 5W60 oil for those engines, and extended the warranty after repairs were made, and reasons given. My Black Series from 2008 will cut fuel if the oil temp is below 180° and I rev past 6,500 rpms (red line is 7,200 rpms). Even the old 1989-90 McLaren Turbo Grand Prixs had a setting that limited boost to only 4 psi if the engine coolant temp was below 140° (they did not have an oil temp sensor). So it’s very important to wait and let the engine/oil warm before you hammered on it, and a magic number would be tough to give, also based on our coolant gauges, but at least consider prudence when getting the itch, or at least limit to when you have to do it with a engine not up to operating temps. Did the stock chips for the SY TYs have any such settings in the chip? I run an aftermarket so I don’t recall.



DaveP said:
The engine oil cooler is on the hot side. The transmission cooler is on the cold side.

There's a little-understood reason the heater core returns to the radiator over the transmission cooler. Under certain conditions in low ambient, the transmission could overheat because of inadequate circulation through the radiator. Under low ambient conditions, when the thermostat may be fully closed, the flow from the heater circuit ensures that the transmission cooler will be cooled by circulating coolant.

Several things happen by placing the engine oil cooler in the hot side:

Oil warm-up is enhanced.
Engine oil temp will be slightly above coolant temp when stabilized.
Heat rejected to the coolant by the oil cooler will be released in the air-flow, rather than being re-introduced to the engine first. (Which is what happens with the transmission cooler, but there is greater Delta-T from the trans cooler to the coolant with the cold side coolant).
Click to expand...
 
C

CC801

Donating Member
Re: Radiators...whats best?

Damian said:
An external trans cooler will work just fine if not better than stock. Radiator not having the trans cooler built in means more engine coolant can fit in it.
Click to expand...

External transcoolers work great by themselves in race cars. For street driving, especially if you have a higher than stock stall, id order it with at least the trans cooler. In stop and go traffic the trans build up heat, external trans cooler doesn't get a lot of flow. Where as built in transcooler never knows the difference. Also liquid is a lot better medium for cooling than air is.
 
C

CC801

Donating Member
Re: Radiators...whats best?

Not all of them have cooling fans and space is limited in some areas. Look at 3/4 -1 ton trucks. They're built to move heavy loads which generate heat in the trans. They have an auxillary trans cooler, which runs inline after the radiator so the radiator removes most of the heat and the auxillary cooler removes a little more. The manufactures try to build things to last at least a little while, so they don't have to replace it under warranty. Also i know a few transmission builders from my time in the business and none of them will warranty a transmission if the vehicle has only an auxiliary cooler.
 
C

CC801

Donating Member
Re: Radiators...whats best?

Also the extra quart of coolant you're gonna gain by eliminating the trans cooler isnt going to fix an over heating problem. Hell i had a stock radiator, with a/c and a 4.5 in a2a in front of it and didnt have any engine cooling or ac issues.
 
C

CC801

Donating Member
Re: Radiators...whats best?

Not all auxiliary coolers are mounted in front of the radiator. Most who have gone a2a have to mount it in other places.
 
NOJIMMY

NOJIMMY

New member
Re: Radiators...whats best?

You say pa-ta-toe, I say pa-tat-oe, .....:2cents:
There are so many factors that go into radiator efficiency (ignoring material/build quality for un-momento):
-EFans vs Clutch Fans sizing, electrical draw/connectivity, belt slippage
-Proper Shroud sizing and air deflection
-Radiator Sizing (number of tubes/rows, dia, fins), length, width, thickness
-Engine (block filler, tuning/timing, exhaust temps) and ecm programming
-Flow Restriction (thermostat, water pump, type of fluid), overflow conditions
-Aux Radiator needs (ps, transmission, TC cooling) and aux placement
-Frontal Access (A/C, push vs puller fans) of vehicle
-Driving Conditions (stop/start, interstate), vehicle weight
-And underhood temps (coatings, wrappings, ventilization, blade-of-death/scoops)
I find it amusing to give an absolute opinion on what works for everyone's trucks.
Im pretty sure that Mile Hi altitudes on 100+ degree weather on track days expecting
the A/C to work while during burn-outs would need more than a stock/clone radiator.
In short, I believe (like most things in life) compromise is required. Want 160 temps
a loose converter, and electrical draw a minimum while driving cross country and
you might want to plan for worst case scenerios. But then again I know folks who
buy a cheap radiator cap and never flush there system expecting winter/summer driving
to be uninterrupted. I have a 155mph data log in July that accomplished my goals so
planning ahead definitely works! To each his/her own...:tup:
 
NOJIMMY

NOJIMMY

New member
Re: Radiators...whats best?

Eddiecus said:
How about this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...akeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en
Garbage or usable on a buget?
Click to expand...

Depends.....[Direct fit to manual transmission only]
  1. Are you running a separate auto tranny cooler that will keep temps in the proper range
  2. Are you running a lockup or nonlockup converter (the latter generates more heat)
  3. Are you blocking the radiator with a/c condensor, tranny cooler, aux ic, puller fans, etc
  4. Do you have other coolers and tight engine compartment/heat build up requirments
  5. Do you want to use the same core support (ie plug and play)
There is a difference of opinion between camps that say "two rows of tubes that are bigger"
are better/worse than three rows; or three rows of various size tubes" within the radiator are desirable".
Of course fan shrouds, manual vs e-fans, stock water pump vs electric pump, thermostat and such all make a cooling difference as well.

The radiator you mention looks like an average simple unit (in my mind) that is basic.
If you have heavy duty needs (like hot weather/hauling) you might want a more substantial unit.
Its really not fun fighting overtemps in the summer time (or redesigning a poorly functioning system as an afterthought).


But Ive might be way off base, and someone/member might have more data.


-Larry
 
E

Eddiecus

StuPid Norwegian
Re: Radiators...whats best?

I have deleted the oil cooler (oil filter on the engine block)
guess I have a lock up (th700)
No A/C and little a2a intercooler.

I realize that i have taken water over my head with my Ty project, I have the fabrication skills to fabricate a new core support but have limited time.


My old radiator is gone and as I need to buy one i would like to get somthing just a little better :)
 
J

jollygreen1964

Donating Member
Re: Radiators...whats best?

years ago I had one made by griffin and sold thru a local speed shop near them, it had both coolers, I have yet to install it and if I knew how I would post a pic!
 
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