Manual Brake Options/Discussion

WyoSyclone

Active member
Re: Manual Brake Options/Discussion

...and be careful of the bore/resevoir size if going with 4 wheel discs.... discs take a lot more fluid than the old drummies....
 

Daveman2

Autox Blazer
Re: Manual Brake Options/Discussion

I honestly have no idea how you would ever street a Sy/Ty with manual brakes and steering, I had to drive my car with the engine off coasting down an old windy road once and it took ALOT more work, and was not confidence inspiring to say the least.

This does make me interested as I have a massive brake booster as well, but I am afraid of the pedal being like a rock. The altered arm-pivot deal makes sense
 

Robert Lone

MUTANT
Re: Manual Brake Options/Discussion

Do what I said Mike, and understand that you may not have the brakes you had. Give it a shot, if it don't work, you lost nothing...
 

Six-is-Enough

Use to do a little Boost
Re: Manual Brake Options/Discussion

from what i can find...the Dodge caravan cylinders are only a 24mm (less than 1") bore. Does wilwood maybe ream them out?

I don't know? Not even sure it is off a caravan. But they are a chrysler part!
 

LIL QIK

HELL YEA I GOT BOOST!
Re: Manual Brake Options/Discussion

I'm assuming that you wouldn't be able to do much of a boost launch without the power brakes of some sort. I had considered going manual....but the thought of no boost launches steered me away from it. That and I drove my buddies 69 Vette.....didn't like the way it stopped at all....and it had good size factory brakes.
 

MikeRenz

not stock
Re: Manual Brake Options/Discussion

I'm assuming that you wouldn't be able to do much of a boost launch without the power brakes of some sort. I had considered going manual....but the thought of no boost launches steered me away from it. That and I drove my buddies 69 Vette.....didn't like the way it stopped at all....and it had good size factory brakes.

power assist has nothing to do really with the boost launches. If anything, it'd be an easier/quicker chore with manual. Just think, no neutral rev to get your brake pedal to the floor. It just comes down to clamping power. It takes a lot of power to overcome decent brake friction.
 

SY2455

70's Veteran
Re: Manual Brake Options/Discussion

It just comes down to clamping power. It takes a lot of power to overcome decent brake friction.

That is where the larger master cylinder bore comes into play. With the larger unit you just pump the brakes twice and hold.
 

sytyguy

Moderated User
Re: Manual Brake Options/Discussion

260-4893 - $99.99
260-8419 - $39.99
260-8556 - $179.99

LMK if you wanna order anything Mike.
 

LIL QIK

HELL YEA I GOT BOOST!
Re: Manual Brake Options/Discussion

How many of you guys are actually using manual brakes. And how do you like it. I've thought about going this route to help clean up the fire wall....but was afraid I wouldn't have enough braking power. I've noticed that MP Brakes sells a GM disc/disc manual master cylinder with a 1.125" bore. As it is right now...I'm looking for a cleaner/shorter hydroboost setup. I've got a factory hydroboost in there right now and it's quite the stess on the eyes compared to the passenger side. But am curious as to a description of how some of you guys like the manual setup.
 

MikeRenz

not stock
Re: Manual Brake Options/Discussion

well i just bought the wilwood stuff from Hood...the billet reservoir 260-8556 one has a 1.125" bore. It's cheaper through Hood than the MP Brakes one, looks better imo, and I think Wilwood has a more notable rep than MP. I'll hopefully have my wilwood stuff in a couple days, so i'll get it bolted up for pics asap. I won't have any feedback on pedal feel for a while though. :lol:
 

Norm

Donating Member
Re: Manual Brake Options/Discussion

I went with a manual master cylinder on my 62 Biscayne and 4 wheel disk brakes. Takes a bit to get use to the feel from the pedal, but I kinda like it better than power brakes. Not that 4-5 pounds is really going to make anything faster, but a cleaner lookiong firewall with no booster.
 

SY2932

Administrator
Re: Manual Brake Options/Discussion

I won't have any feedback on pedal feel for a while though. :lol:

You're not gonna like it once you are rolling and try to stop... My bud's seemed ok in the garage after we got it installed. But when I went to move the truck, I quickly discovered how much of a bitch it was to stop with the brake pedal still set up for power brakes.

It should be noted that you will need a plate where the master cylinder attaches to the firewall so that you don't have a huge hole there. I have a modified one (oversize) drawn up in CAD that I was going to get laser cut out of stainless steel for my truck and my bud's. Right now, we both have the *cheesy* stock plate that was used for manual brake equiped S10's.
 

MikeRenz

not stock
Re: Manual Brake Options/Discussion

yup, i'm planning on making a nice booster hole cover. Someone wants me to make a hyrdaboost cover anyway, so it'll be roughly the same thing. And yea that stock s10 one with the rolled lips is super ugly. :lol:

I'm going to look into proper pedal length/leverage like you did mike.
 

SY2932

Administrator
Re: Manual Brake Options/Discussion

yup, i'm planning on making a nice booster hole cover. Someone wants me to make a hyrdaboost cover anyway, so it'll be roughly the same thing. And yea that stock s10 one with the rolled lips is super ugly. :lol:

I'm going to look into proper pedal length/leverage like you did mike.


Really? Who's making ya the hydraboost cover? You can PM me if ya wanna keep it "secret" :lol:.

Getting the proper pivot point on the brake arm is easier than falling in love. GM used the same brake pedal arm for manual and power brakes. The only thing that is different is where the pivot was mounted. On the manual brake arm, the pivot is one hole higher. The hole is already there so you don't even have to drill it...

IMG_1932.sized.jpg


From the factory, the pivot is crushed into place. I could have tried to salvage it and get it welded in place but I didn't want to risk it popping out and leaving me brakeless. So I used a modiifed grade 8 bolt and nut.

IMG_1947.sized.jpg


I decked the nut to the same thickness as the lip on the stock pivot so that I could pinch the arm once it was tightened on both sides prior to getting welded on both sides. This had to be done because you can't buy a nut with the proper thickness in a 1/2 X 13 thread. Even a jam nut is to thick... It also helped to keep the spacing the same. Everything is good and tight, had to thread the hole in the brake arm 1/2 X 13 to get the modified bolt installed. I cut the head off the bolt, squared it, chamfered the end and then drilled it for the pin in a seperate operation. I made a block at work to hold it in the vise when I was modifying it. The pic above was taken during mock up. The excess threads were cut off, it was glass bead blasted and then painted with POR15 after I got it back from the welder.

Oh and yet other detail that you will have to contend with is the rod itself that goes from the brake pedal arm to the master cylinder. You can't just use the old one from the power brakes. My bud and I got our setups out of the junk yard so we got the rod and cheesy cover plates from the donor trucks. I think that is was about six years time between my bud getting his set up and me finding mine. Trucks with manual brakes are a bitch to find by me...
 

MikeRenz

not stock
Re: Manual Brake Options/Discussion

no no...a board member wants me to make him a cover...not vice versa. And yea, the manual brake s10s are sparse - i've never seen one at the yard i go to, which is pretty big.

Thanks for the pics Mike! Should def come in handy.
 

Windedv6

Ty n 10s
Re: Manual Brake Options/Discussion

Mike

I had the Wilwood 260-4893 master cylinder shown in the picture on my TT Ty, but made a mistake of painting the aluminum part and then spilled brake fluid on it. Of course the paint bubbled. I wiped the rest of the paint back off. I only had it on about 2 weeks and switched to the polished billet one. If someone wants it I will take $60 plus shipping.

MasterCylinderandRollControl1.JPG


As explain in other parts of this thread you must move the unit up in the firewall slot and align your rod with the upper hole. I made a billet adapter plate using the s-10 manual brake plate as template, which properly places the master cylinder to aligin with the upper holeon the brake pedal. My 93 Ty pedal did not have an upper hole so we copied it from a Sy pedal.

Although my TT Ty is lighter than your Sy, I have no problems stopping at 150+ mph. I am running Wilwood disks on all four corners.


John
 

SY2932

Administrator
Re: Manual Brake Options/Discussion

no no...a board member wants me to make him a cover...not vice versa. And yea, the manual brake s10s are sparse - i've never seen one at the yard i go to, which is pretty big.

Thanks for the pics Mike! Should def come in handy.


Heh, ok I thought that was my cue to offer to cut *you* one too since I copied the cheesy stock one in CAD ;).

Yeah manual brake s-series are like trying to find a needle in a haystack. I go to no less than four junkyards by me and one is one hundred square acres in size. Still took six years to find one. Got a nice AC delete blower box out of that truck too. I think that is the one that I sold to member Aeroking last year.

I'm East of the border all weekend long. I'll get some specs on everything once I get back home to save you from having to make more than one trip to the hardware store :lol:.
 
Top