Highest boost level?
- Thread starter Michael
- Start date
Flyin Ryan
hated cuz he drives fords
Re: Highest boost level?
Think that's what ed hess launches at LOL
cloned 1 said:
Think that's what ed hess launches at LOL
Tooky
Serious about performance
Re: Highest boost level?
I don't know much about diesels but my understanding is that it's totally different than a gasoline engine. Diesels don't have to worry about "detonation", so their boost is not limited by the octane of the fuel like on a turbo gasoline engine (which will detonate when the boost exceeds the fuel's octane limit).
Can anyone explain why this is, and since octane limits boost on a gas engine, what limits boost on a diesel?
I don't know much about diesels but my understanding is that it's totally different than a gasoline engine. Diesels don't have to worry about "detonation", so their boost is not limited by the octane of the fuel like on a turbo gasoline engine (which will detonate when the boost exceeds the fuel's octane limit).
Can anyone explain why this is, and since octane limits boost on a gas engine, what limits boost on a diesel?
Don W.
Stab it and steer it
Re: Highest boost level?
Well for one thing diesels have no "throttle." There is no butterfly in the intake, it's always wide open. (One exception I know of is early Mercedes diesels.) Since the cyl fills with air only there is nothing to "pre-ignite." Just before TDC fuel is injected (atomized) directly into the cyl as tiny little droplets and burns as those droplets vaporize. (Trivia: You can't burn a liquid, only the vapors.) There is no "flame front" so no chance of knock.
Mechanically diesels are currently running such high cyl pressures they've converted to steel pistons. Maybe someone else can elaborate, especially on boost limits. The 60# I mentioned earlier comes from twin turbo's running in series (one feeding the other) then through a huge ATA inter cooler. Huge as in as big as the radiator you see on on a big truck.
Little simplistic but I hope it helps.
Tooky said:
Well for one thing diesels have no "throttle." There is no butterfly in the intake, it's always wide open. (One exception I know of is early Mercedes diesels.) Since the cyl fills with air only there is nothing to "pre-ignite." Just before TDC fuel is injected (atomized) directly into the cyl as tiny little droplets and burns as those droplets vaporize. (Trivia: You can't burn a liquid, only the vapors.) There is no "flame front" so no chance of knock.
Mechanically diesels are currently running such high cyl pressures they've converted to steel pistons. Maybe someone else can elaborate, especially on boost limits. The 60# I mentioned earlier comes from twin turbo's running in series (one feeding the other) then through a huge ATA inter cooler. Huge as in as big as the radiator you see on on a big truck.
Little simplistic but I hope it helps.
Re: Highest boost level?
Don W covered most of what I know on diesels. I have heard of detonation, as a result of advanced injection timing and high boost levels. Generally the more boost you can generate, the more horsepower you can generate. Most of the big numbers are made with compound turbos and large ATA intercoolers. It takes a healthy turbo system and the ability to deliver large amounts of fuel (injectors and injection pumps). The limiting factor is exhaust gas temp, as you start to get into piston melting temps when you make serious horsepower (and the ATA IC helps keep that in check). I was not aware of any performance diesel applications using steel pistons, but there could be some. I know piston mass is still a concern as these guys are turning high rpms (at least for a diesel).
Is there really a SyTy running 44 psi of boost???
Thanks,
Michael Pliska
Don W covered most of what I know on diesels. I have heard of detonation, as a result of advanced injection timing and high boost levels. Generally the more boost you can generate, the more horsepower you can generate. Most of the big numbers are made with compound turbos and large ATA intercoolers. It takes a healthy turbo system and the ability to deliver large amounts of fuel (injectors and injection pumps). The limiting factor is exhaust gas temp, as you start to get into piston melting temps when you make serious horsepower (and the ATA IC helps keep that in check). I was not aware of any performance diesel applications using steel pistons, but there could be some. I know piston mass is still a concern as these guys are turning high rpms (at least for a diesel).
Is there really a SyTy running 44 psi of boost???
Thanks,
Michael Pliska
Tooky
Serious about performance
Re: Highest boost level?
It all comes down to how much cash you have to afford the highest octane fuel. Guys with big bucks can afford $13/gal VP Racing Fuels "C-16" with a Motor Octane of 117. If you're really a high roller, VP offers "VP Import" for $22/gal with the absolute highest motor octane (120+). Imports run 40+PSI with that fuel, there's no reason a SyTy couldn't do at least 30-40 PSI with it. How much do you want to spend and how much you care about the difference between your track performance and street performance numbers...?
It all comes down to how much cash you have to afford the highest octane fuel. Guys with big bucks can afford $13/gal VP Racing Fuels "C-16" with a Motor Octane of 117. If you're really a high roller, VP offers "VP Import" for $22/gal with the absolute highest motor octane (120+). Imports run 40+PSI with that fuel, there's no reason a SyTy couldn't do at least 30-40 PSI with it. How much do you want to spend and how much you care about the difference between your track performance and street performance numbers...?
Tooky
Serious about performance
Re: Highest boost level?
If you like turbos, and horsepower, and DESTRUCTION, this first video oughta make you wet your pants!! :rotf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g7_bHlQhd8
Here's another courtesy of "Mr. Bezerk DSN": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsjRvYnjDUE You can hear & see something let loose in the drivetrain, sending the RPMs skyrocketing for an instant KaBOOM! :crazyeye:
opcorn2:
OK last one, no destruction here, but this bitch must be running some CRAZY boost.... you'll see what I mean when you see the 1-2 shift :rock: :dizzy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlELmIC0rWc
Funny you say that, I happen to maintain a collection of just these type of CATASTROPHIC FAILURES!! :lol:DaveP said:
If you like turbos, and horsepower, and DESTRUCTION, this first video oughta make you wet your pants!! :rotf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g7_bHlQhd8
Here's another courtesy of "Mr. Bezerk DSN": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsjRvYnjDUE You can hear & see something let loose in the drivetrain, sending the RPMs skyrocketing for an instant KaBOOM! :crazyeye:
opcorn2: OK last one, no destruction here, but this bitch must be running some CRAZY boost.... you'll see what I mean when you see the 1-2 shift
:rock: :dizzy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlELmIC0rWcRe: Highest boost level?
I hope I don't repeat any of those videos, but I plan to build a Duramax engine to drop into my tube chassis Vega. I figure it will be a fun ride, able to race my regular class (NHRA Super-Gas) as well as diesel-only events (which are growing and have decent payouts), and I'd even be able to race brackets at the NHRA Sport-Compact races (since the Duramax is made by Isuzu).
With these other projects, I must resist the temptation to tweak and race my Typhoon... It's gotta get me to and from work every day so I can pay for those other projects!
Regards,
Michael
I hope I don't repeat any of those videos, but I plan to build a Duramax engine to drop into my tube chassis Vega. I figure it will be a fun ride, able to race my regular class (NHRA Super-Gas) as well as diesel-only events (which are growing and have decent payouts), and I'd even be able to race brackets at the NHRA Sport-Compact races (since the Duramax is made by Isuzu).
With these other projects, I must resist the temptation to tweak and race my Typhoon... It's gotta get me to and from work every day so I can pay for those other projects!
Regards,
Michael
dgoodhue
BuSTeD 4.3
Re: Highest boost level?
My Guess is Ed Hess and the other probably is the 2wd Typhoon (the name has slipped off the top my Heads). I can pretty much tell you its not using the stock intake manifold, because it has air flow distribution issues at very high boost issues.
LIL QIK said:
My Guess is Ed Hess and the other probably is the 2wd Typhoon (the name has slipped off the top my Heads). I can pretty much tell you its not using the stock intake manifold, because it has air flow distribution issues at very high boost issues.
Don W.
Stab it and steer it
Re: Highest boost level?
Just FYI on steel pistons, look at the size of the pin!! Scroll down for 2 piece pistons, which have been around quite awhile actually in HD apps.
http://www.cat.com/cda/files/70471/7/PEHP7039-02.pdf
Michael said:
Just FYI on steel pistons, look at the size of the pin!! Scroll down for 2 piece pistons, which have been around quite awhile actually in HD apps.
http://www.cat.com/cda/files/70471/7/PEHP7039-02.pdf
Re: Highest boost level?
The tractor pull guys are running some pretty extreme stuff, upwards of 1800 hp out of a 5.9L Cummins. Not sure what their exact boost levels are (most of those guys are pretty tight-lipped about their setups). I mostly hang around with the diesel drag racing crowd.
Now to reveal my ulterior motive for learning boost levels:
Aside from being a longtime Typhoon owner, I am the engineering manager for ISSPRO, which is a gauge manufacturing company (known more in the heavy duty and performance diesel markets). We have a new gauge line out which uses an underhood controller, and a databus to communicate with the individual gauges (3 wires daisy-chained to as many as 17 gauges). A future upgrade will also offer some datalogging capability. I wanted to see what boost levels people are running on turbo gasoline applications, so we can come up with a sensor which will work. We use a straight pressure sensor for the diesel applications, but I wanted to run a MAP-style sensor for gasoline (so we can display vacuum as well).
If anyone knows a specific wide-range (3.5+ bar?) MAP sensor brand which is reasonably priced, I would love to hear it!
Thanks,
Michael Pliska
Ahhh, okay, I was just referring to the light-duty diesel performance guys. I have never been inside of one of those heavy duty diesels (although I used to drive Class 8 trucks back in college). I know the Cummins I used to drive was speed limited to 2000 rpm, so I wonder if it used steel pistons.Don W. said:
The tractor pull guys are running some pretty extreme stuff, upwards of 1800 hp out of a 5.9L Cummins. Not sure what their exact boost levels are (most of those guys are pretty tight-lipped about their setups). I mostly hang around with the diesel drag racing crowd.
Now to reveal my ulterior motive for learning boost levels:
Aside from being a longtime Typhoon owner, I am the engineering manager for ISSPRO, which is a gauge manufacturing company (known more in the heavy duty and performance diesel markets). We have a new gauge line out which uses an underhood controller, and a databus to communicate with the individual gauges (3 wires daisy-chained to as many as 17 gauges). A future upgrade will also offer some datalogging capability. I wanted to see what boost levels people are running on turbo gasoline applications, so we can come up with a sensor which will work. We use a straight pressure sensor for the diesel applications, but I wanted to run a MAP-style sensor for gasoline (so we can display vacuum as well).
If anyone knows a specific wide-range (3.5+ bar?) MAP sensor brand which is reasonably priced, I would love to hear it!
Thanks,
Michael Pliska
sy2675
He Saved the Pimp'n Game!
Re: Highest boost level?
that last one is the shit!
Tooky said:Funny you say that, I happen to maintain a collection of just these type of CATASTROPHIC FAILURES!! :lol:
If you like turbos, and horsepower, and DESTRUCTION, this first video oughta make you wet your pants!! :rotf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g7_bHlQhd8
Here's another courtesy of "Mr. Bezerk DSN": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsjRvYnjDUE You can hear & see something let loose in the drivetrain, sending the RPMs skyrocketing for an instant KaBOOM! :crazyeye:
OK last one, no destruction here, but this bitch must be running some CRAZY boost.... you'll see what I mean when you see the 1-2 shift
that last one is the shit!