Distributor with Hall Effect trigger

[denny]

I need hall effect cam sync for BS3 to run oddfire.
Anyone know the best way to get this ?


I have 2 oddfire distributors, MSD and GM and a few stock.
After I modified the MSD reluctor for cam sync, realized its a magnetic trigger and not hall effect.
I can't mount a hall effect pickup like this because there is not space.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-2348

There is this cheap procomp but not sure how cheap of a quality it is.

https://speedmaster79.com/ignition-...t-ready-to-run-electronic-distributor-red-cap

 

[Helicoprion]

Re: Distributor with Hall Effect trigger

Don't know if its helpful at all but I think the old mercruiser 4.3 marine engines used a hall effect distributor. It's been awhile since I had mine but I think that's what it had.

 

[Syclone#892]

Re: Distributor with Hall Effect trigger

Can you use a stock 96-up distributor? I use that for my hall effect cam sync with my holley dominator. I'm assuming you just need a 1x cam sync. If the height of it won't work your setup its possible to grind off the stock mount and then add an aftermarket adjustable height mount so you get the proper mesh.

I hope that helps a bit, let me know if you have anymore questions

 

[denny]

Re: Distributor with Hall Effect trigger

Don't know if its helpful at all but I think the old mercruiser 4.3 marine engines used a hall effect distributor. It's been awhile since I had mine but I think that's what it had.

Thanks

 

[denny]

Re: Distributor with Hall Effect trigger

Can you use a stock 96-up distributor? I use that for my hall effect cam sync with my holley dominator. I'm assuming you just need a 1x cam sync. If the height of it won't work your setup its possible to grind off the stock mount and then add an aftermarket adjustable height mount so you get the proper mesh.

I hope that helps a bit, let me know if you have anymore questions

Thanks, if it gives a hall effect signal I will make it fit on way or another.
I will looking into it.

Thanks

 

[Syclone#892]

Re: Distributor with Hall Effect trigger

Yup the vortec dist cam sensor is a hall effect, nice part is you can go to a junkyard and find one for cheap. I am not positive but I believe the cap efi connection sells will fit on it so you won't need to use the stock dist cap to cover the sensor. I am not positive but I believe any 3 wire cam/crank sensor is a hall effect as they need a + and - input then the 3rd wire is the output to the ecm where as a magnetic sensor is a 2 wire.

https://www.eficonnection.com/home/product/cast-aluminum-distributor-dust-cap

Good luck with the build, I always loved the sound of an oddfire!

 

[denny]

Re: Distributor with Hall Effect trigger

I got vortec distributor but not sure how this is going to work to get a signal to the BS3 that #1 is at TDC.


http://chevythunder.com/gm_cpi_and_cspi_19922004.htm

When the gap is block on the sensor, it is made active, sending the pulse to the pcm to control injectors and timing. When the path is clear, the signal is off.


The shutter is 180 deg wide, do I need to cut it down to the width of the magnet?



Thanks

 

[Syclone#892]

Re: Distributor with Hall Effect trigger

Hi Denny,
I'm not sure about setting up a cam sync on bs3 but here is the instructions for a holley setup.

http://forums.holley.com/showthread.php?2590-Magnetic-amp-Hall-Effect-Crank-Cam-Sensor-Setup

Most cam syncs are a 1x sensor, that is what the vortec is. It doesn't matter if the reluctor is all the way around with a tiny gap or a small tooth like you are referring. All the ecm is looking for is the signal then it knows what to do from there.

Following the holley instructions I setup my crank sensor, then used the formula to see where I needed my cam sync to be. I rotated the crank to the degrees btdc that the formula calculated. I then installed my cam sync so the reluctor was at the edge of the sensor. I hooked my meter up and slowly rotated the dist till the sensor showed voltage. I tightened down the dist then slowly rotated the engine to make sure sensor showed no voltage then. I did a digital falling setup so the reluctor goes through the sensor, once the sensor does not see the reluctor the ecm knows it is at #1.

Everything I have heard falling is the best way to setup cam and crank sensors. If you try and start it and you get a backfire like you are 180 off you should be able to go in the software and flip the sensor from falling to rising and it should start. At least thats how it is with the holley as that happened to me Once I knew that was the issue I reinstalled the dist rotated 180 and switched back to falling in the software.

So check into your instructions about the proper way to setup the sensors, I do not believe you will have any issue using that for a cam sensor.

Good Luck

 

[denny]

Re: Distributor with Hall Effect trigger

Hi Denny,
I'm not sure about setting up a cam sync on bs3 but here is the instructions for a holley setup.

http://forums.holley.com/showthread.php?2590-Magnetic-amp-Hall-Effect-Crank-Cam-Sensor-Setup

Most cam syncs are a 1x sensor, that is what the vortec is. It doesn't matter if the reluctor is all the way around with a tiny gap or a small tooth like you are referring. All the ecm is looking for is the signal then it knows what to do from there.

Following the holley instructions I setup my crank sensor, then used the formula to see where I needed my cam sync to be. I rotated the crank to the degrees btdc that the formula calculated. I then installed my cam sync so the reluctor was at the edge of the sensor. I hooked my meter up and slowly rotated the dist till the sensor showed voltage. I tightened down the dist then slowly rotated the engine to make sure sensor showed no voltage then. I did a digital falling setup so the reluctor goes through the sensor, once the sensor does not see the reluctor the ecm knows it is at #1.

Everything I have heard falling is the best way to setup cam and crank sensors. If you try and start it and you get a backfire like you are 180 off you should be able to go in the software and flip the sensor from falling to rising and it should start. At least thats how it is with the holley as that happened to me Once I knew that was the issue I reinstalled the dist rotated 180 and switched back to falling in the software.

So check into your instructions about the proper way to setup the sensors, I do not believe you will have any issue using that for a cam sensor.

Good Luck

Thanks, setting the Crank and Cam trigger is almost similar in bs3, Crank trigger is set to 50* btdc and cam sync is set to 70* btdc. These parameters are in the configuration.

I guess what I didn't really (still don't) understand is how the hall sensor work in the sense at what point it trigger the spark. I did saw on google what you said that as soon as the gap is blocked it send the signal. *ford distributor works opposite.

Thanks, I give it another try soon. Its fing hot these past few days.

 

[68steiny]

Re: Distributor with Hall Effect trigger

I just did this with a Motec ecu and a dual sync. If you have a MSD box, you need to set on a rising trigger for the ignition, MSD only sees rising trigger. You will find the trigger set somewhere between 0 and 50 once you do that. I pulled all the plugs out and fired the engine (much easier) until I dialed in the distributor.

 

[Syclone#892]

Re: Distributor with Hall Effect trigger

Hi Denny,

I'm not sure what exactly you are wondering about and I'm not the best at explaining this stuff :rotf:

But what you found on google is correct, here's what I believe you need to do. Setup your crank sensor, then rotate engine to 70* btdc. Now take the dist and install it so the reluctor is at the end of the sensor with regards to the dist rotation. If its not perfect you can fine tune it by rotating the dist body like you would for changing timing in a normal setup. Like a mentioned before, hookup the + and - to the sensor then hook a voltmeter to ground and the 3rd signal wire off the sensor. as you rotate the dist back and forth you will see the sensor have voltage and loose it. Figure out which way you are setting it up for (rising or falling) and install it so the reluctor is at the beginning of the sensor or the end.

If you are wondering how the ecm knows to fire on #1, my best answer would be it just does
By placing the cam sensor at 70* like it says the computer has information and calculations it does to then know the engine is at #1 when the sensor passes. Plus being a 1x sensor once you set it up it only signals the sensor at #1.

I hope that helps a little, like I said I'm not the best when trying to explain this stuff but I'm trying to help !

 

[denny]

Re: Distributor with Hall Effect trigger

I took the hall sensor off the vortec and and mount it on the stock distributor.


It works, the sy started.

Here some pic in case some other fool wants to try it.

 

[autoaddictions]

Re: Distributor with Hall Effect trigger

I've been watching this thread Denny. I'm going to be going down this road myself soon. I see you got the engine to fire so congrats on that. But why could you not run a RPM 3 magnet trigger wheel and remove 5 relucters in your dizzy. Did you send your box in to be upgraded to run COP. Or is the odd fire setup causing you to do it they way you did. My build is even fire and in order to run COP I'd have to upgrade my box and harnesses to the LS1 setup. Other wise I can keep what I have a base BS3 with Trans control and DAe. With a crack trigger and modded dizzy ( 5 relucters removed ) I can run sequential fuel and wasted spark.( one coil)

 

[denny]

Re: Distributor with Hall Effect trigger

I've been watching this thread Denny. I'm going to be going down this road myself soon. I see you got the engine to fire so congrats on that. But why could you not run a RPM 3 magnet trigger wheel and remove 5 relucters in your dizzy. Did you send your box in to be upgraded to run COP. Or is the odd fire setup causing you to do it they way you did. My build is even fire and in order to run COP I'd have to upgrade my box and harnesses to the LS1 setup. Other wise I can keep what I have a base BS3 with Trans control and DAe. With a crack trigger and modded dizzy ( 5 relucters removed ) I can run sequential fuel and wasted spark.( one coil)

Hey Frank,

I had some email exchanges with John at bs3 before doing all this and he said to send the ecu in that he can modified it for oddfire, he said I will need a v6 crank trigger (3 magnet) and need to modify my dis for can sync. I don't think he did anything else to the ecu.
Bs3 and online have instructions on how to mod the dis for can sync.

I have a RPM v6 crank trigger , I Mod my msd distributor for cam sync. (Actually bought a v8 reluctor and remove 7, my msd is have an oddfire reluctor which is not made anymore, I saved it).
The issue with my msd distributor is it give out a magnetic trigger, bs3 require a Hall effect signal. Msd does not have a v6 dis with Hall effect signal.
I read somewhere bs3 dosent work with accel dual sync dis.

The other problem rotor phasing , since the cam sync signal and the rotor is on the same shaft it's not easy.
The shield in the vortec dis that trigger the signal , it's press on at any degree , this make the rotor phasing a lot easier.


It's been a few months since I have been at this , almost about to give up.

* when I was searching for crank trigger I saw you bought the rpm crank trigger and dis mod for can sync (can't remember from who) and I believe he had bs3 running, so I am not sure if that dis you have is setup for Hall effect or if Hall effect is only require for oddfire.



Thanks
Denny

 

[autoaddictions]

Re: Distributor with Hall Effect trigger

I'm got it from Adam he had it running in his pike peak Syclone thing. He did run Bs3. I'm pretty sure the dizzy is from a v8 with 7 hacked off. Msd makes a cap and rotor that has adjustable rotor phasing. I have the part # for the dizzy and the adjustable rotor at the shop. I'll post them up. Just invade simdody searches this thread later. It is a pain in the ass for sure. I was going to go to COP. But you need a 24 tooth wheel witch nobody has anymore. You also have to install a Hall effect sensor in your cam sprocket. Jessel or comp belt drive.
The engine harness is also different. I said **** it I'm just going to use the modified dizzy and the 3 mag wheel.