Can I use coilovers w/ stock control arms ?
- Thread starter MRKING
- Start date
im jealous.
dgoodhue
BuSTeD 4.3
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
The AFCO shocks that Dunstan used were not really meant to be used with a full weight SyTy. Suposedly they wear out in 10-15K miles (no direct experience, but I have been told this). Sycloen might be better off than Typhoon because of the lower weight (though most of the weight over the front is going to be the same) This was the final straw for me in attempt to use any of the Dunstan suspension parts. Al Dunstan's test truck was a stripped & lighten S-10 with a Sy drivetrain transplant. He also originally used Koni but went to AFCO for cost savings.
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
The AFCO shocks that Dunstan used were not really meant to be used with a full weight SyTy. Suposedly they wear out in 10-15K miles (no direct experience, but I have been told this). Sycloen might be better off than Typhoon because of the lower weight (though most of the weight over the front is going to be the same) This was the final straw for me in attempt to use any of the Dunstan suspension parts. Al Dunstan's test truck was a stripped & lighten S-10 with a Sy drivetrain transplant. He also originally used Koni but went to AFCO for cost savings.
MRKING
New Parts for Old Trucks
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
10-15k miles would be a lifetime on my truck . I hope to get her under 3k lbs and cant wait to see how these afco's perform in the back . I see he switched from the koni's , heres his actual page from when he sold the rear kit .
http://web.archive.org/web/20020203162511/www.sportmachines.com/dpt/rear.html
Maybe thats an installed price :rotf:
Thanks for pointing out the bolts for me , when I swapped frames I couldnt remember how some stuff went . The front bolt is close to the coil over and I was wondering if I could switch it around before .
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
10-15k miles would be a lifetime on my truck . I hope to get her under 3k lbs and cant wait to see how these afco's perform in the back . I see he switched from the koni's , heres his actual page from when he sold the rear kit .
http://web.archive.org/web/20020203162511/www.sportmachines.com/dpt/rear.html
Maybe thats an installed price :rotf:
Thanks for pointing out the bolts for me , when I swapped frames I couldnt remember how some stuff went . The front bolt is close to the coil over and I was wondering if I could switch it around before .
dgoodhue
BuSTeD 4.3
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Their was a lot of talk when the coilover came out and few year after about reinforcing or rewelding the upper shock mounts. I didn't do mine, yet. It'son my list of things to do. I wouldn't autocross my truck without it welded.
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
MRKING said:
Their was a lot of talk when the coilover came out and few year after about reinforcing or rewelding the upper shock mounts. I didn't do mine, yet. It'son my list of things to do. I wouldn't autocross my truck without it welded.
MRKING
New Parts for Old Trucks
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
I was looking at these models with a 10sm550 chrome coil . I am looking into it more before I buy , but that looks like a comparable shock to the other kits while still being thin enough to slip in .
5" STROKE
PART VALVING COMPRESSED EXTENDED
NUMBER COMP./REBOUND LENGTH LENGTH
8251 1 10.38 15.75
8252 2 10.38 15.75
8252-4 2-4 10.38 15.75
8253 3 10.38 15.75
8253-1 3-1 10.38 15.75
8254 4 10.38 15.75
825x Specify 10.38 15.75
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
I was looking at these models with a 10sm550 chrome coil . I am looking into it more before I buy , but that looks like a comparable shock to the other kits while still being thin enough to slip in .
5" STROKE
PART VALVING COMPRESSED EXTENDED
NUMBER COMP./REBOUND LENGTH LENGTH
8251 1 10.38 15.75
8252 2 10.38 15.75
8252-4 2-4 10.38 15.75
8253 3 10.38 15.75
8253-1 3-1 10.38 15.75
8254 4 10.38 15.75
825x Specify 10.38 15.75
'JustDreamin'
Dream: 6LV8 Turbo Bravada
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Very interesting....
I've considered going to coilovers on my Bravada, but the $$$ keeps being a deterent. Please keep us informed of what you figure out.....This is the kind of setup I'd be interested in stepping up to.... I can always step up to tubular A-arms later.
'JustDreamin'
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Very interesting....
I've considered going to coilovers on my Bravada, but the $$$ keeps being a deterent. Please keep us informed of what you figure out.....This is the kind of setup I'd be interested in stepping up to.... I can always step up to tubular A-arms later.
'JustDreamin'
SY2455
70's Veteran
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Bilstein also has coilover, but they won't talk to you unless you are a highly qualified retailers for them. Has any one talk to them about what they have to offer as they supply the stock shock?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Bilstein also has coilover, but they won't talk to you unless you are a highly qualified retailers for them. Has any one talk to them about what they have to offer as they supply the stock shock?
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
So the spring rate adjusts the ride height? Right?
I found this web site:
http://www.offroad-tech.com/tech/tb401/
Code Torque Rating (ft/lbs) GM Part #
XK 4553 15048307(LH) 15048308(RH)
XL 4626 15048309(LH) 15048310(RH)
WX 4863 15712407(LH) 15712408(RH)
XM 5638 15048311(LH) 15048312(RH)
*(LH) means left hand side (driver) and (RH) means right hand side (passenger)
It sounds like torsion bar rates are much higher than coil spring rates. It would be nice to know which spring rates affect the ride height. It doesn't look like there is any way to "figure" this from the rates above since the torsion bar rate is linear and the coil spring rate is progressive.
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
So the spring rate adjusts the ride height? Right?
I found this web site:
http://www.offroad-tech.com/tech/tb401/
Code Torque Rating (ft/lbs) GM Part #
XK 4553 15048307(LH) 15048308(RH)
XL 4626 15048309(LH) 15048310(RH)
WX 4863 15712407(LH) 15712408(RH)
XM 5638 15048311(LH) 15048312(RH)
*(LH) means left hand side (driver) and (RH) means right hand side (passenger)
It sounds like torsion bar rates are much higher than coil spring rates. It would be nice to know which spring rates affect the ride height. It doesn't look like there is any way to "figure" this from the rates above since the torsion bar rate is linear and the coil spring rate is progressive.
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
How do you do that shit so quick? Rotten MOFO. I'm think about doing this when I do my brakes. Hopefully something gets figured out soon. I do all the trans R&D, someone else (King) will have to be the guinea pig on this:tup:
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
How do you do that shit so quick? Rotten MOFO. I'm think about doing this when I do my brakes. Hopefully something gets figured out soon. I do all the trans R&D, someone else (King) will have to be the guinea pig on this:tup:
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
i have the complete afco setup...shock,spring and all the spacers on my truck that came with the dustan kit if someone need's me to lend them to them.. for measurements,fitment and what not.
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
i have the complete afco setup...shock,spring and all the spacers on my truck that came with the dustan kit if someone need's me to lend them to them.. for measurements,fitment and what not.
SY2455
70's Veteran
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
1.Answer: Yes
2.Answer: Torsion bar are rated totally different then coil spring. Somewhere I have a chart that tell how to compare them. But you are right in your 2nd sentence where you state torsion bar rate is linear and the coil spring rate is progressive..
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
George Blake said:
1.Answer: Yes
2.Answer: Torsion bar are rated totally different then coil spring. Somewhere I have a chart that tell how to compare them. But you are right in your 2nd sentence where you state torsion bar rate is linear and the coil spring rate is progressive..
turbotyphoon69
New member
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Man this is exciting, I feel like you found the cure to AIDS........ If there is anything I can do to help let me know (besides COMPLETE guinea pig) I currently have my front suspension off and will probably start going back on this weekend with polly graphite suspension, just need to finisht cleaning up the frame and painting it!
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Man this is exciting, I feel like you found the cure to AIDS........ If there is anything I can do to help let me know (besides COMPLETE guinea pig) I currently have my front suspension off and will probably start going back on this weekend with polly graphite suspension, just need to finisht cleaning up the frame and painting it!
MRKING
New Parts for Old Trucks
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
My friends sy is more slammed then I want mine set up , and I believe his rpm setup is 9" coils . Thats the only reason why I have been searching for 10" coils .
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
I think the length of the coil determines ride hight . You could go with a higher rating on the coil to raise the vehicle but the ride would suffer . Going to a lower rating to lower the vehicle would make the front end feel real spongy .George Blake said:
My friends sy is more slammed then I want mine set up , and I believe his rpm setup is 9" coils . Thats the only reason why I have been searching for 10" coils .
'JustDreamin'
Dream: 6LV8 Turbo Bravada
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
1.) Rate. This is the difference in force between 2 positions, in lbs per inch (since we're working in US units) for a coil spring. Torsion springs are going to be in different units. For two springs that are idential in free length, but different rates, the ride height will change, because the amount of load hasn't changed, just the deflection.
2.) Free Length or position is an important consideration. If you take 2 springs with the same rate, one that's 10" long and one that's 6" long, the shorter spring will put the truck significantly lower (might be 4" or 6" or 8" depending upon the front geometry).
3.) Geometry.
The stock torsion bars are working through a pretty small lever arm, look at the distance between the a-arm pivot and the torsion bar mount, it's like what 3" or so? The torsion bar has got to be really stiff in order to hold the truck up with that kind of mechanical disadvantage.
If we compare the coilover setup, its got a much better mechanical advantage, since its acting 2/3's of the way down the a-arm. But, its mechanical advantage is compromised by the fact that the shock is mounted at an angle, reducing its effectiveness (some of the spring rate goes into trying to pull the a-arm out of the truck horizontally, instead of holding the truck up).
I'm interested in this swap. Keep all of us posted as to what you find.
'JustDreamin'
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
There are a couple of variables with springs that would affect ride height.MRKING said:
1.) Rate. This is the difference in force between 2 positions, in lbs per inch (since we're working in US units) for a coil spring. Torsion springs are going to be in different units. For two springs that are idential in free length, but different rates, the ride height will change, because the amount of load hasn't changed, just the deflection.
2.) Free Length or position is an important consideration. If you take 2 springs with the same rate, one that's 10" long and one that's 6" long, the shorter spring will put the truck significantly lower (might be 4" or 6" or 8" depending upon the front geometry).
3.) Geometry.
The stock torsion bars are working through a pretty small lever arm, look at the distance between the a-arm pivot and the torsion bar mount, it's like what 3" or so? The torsion bar has got to be really stiff in order to hold the truck up with that kind of mechanical disadvantage.
If we compare the coilover setup, its got a much better mechanical advantage, since its acting 2/3's of the way down the a-arm. But, its mechanical advantage is compromised by the fact that the shock is mounted at an angle, reducing its effectiveness (some of the spring rate goes into trying to pull the a-arm out of the truck horizontally, instead of holding the truck up).
I'm interested in this swap. Keep all of us posted as to what you find.
'JustDreamin'