Advice on autocrossing a syty please

[TurboTony]

A friend of mine recently got into autocrossing his porsche and has had nothing but positive things to say about it. After a few good talks with him I'm going to go watch and maybe try it on saturday with the sy.

Right now it's set up for the 1/4, but before I dump a pile of time and money to turn corners I'll try it and see if there is any hope for me turning corners.

I'm thinking I'll leave the drag radials on all four corners, 275/315's, and see what happens. If I like it i'll buy another set of wheels and run 275's all the way around for autocrossing.

The plan is to install the LS1 rear brakes I've had sitting around the SLP take off diff I bought, Bell tech lowering leafs and some sway bars.

Anyone have any tips, what not to do, etc? Just looking for some insight into making a sy go around a corner without too much anxiety.


Tony

 

[NVRENUF]

build a deck/fence
side your garage
insulate/drywall/heat your garage

or

buy something nice for Jane



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[TurboTony]

build a deck/fence
side your garage
insulate/drywall/heat your garage

or

buy something nice for Jane



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Quiet you,

All of the above will happen, and the Sy will remain the same till at least the spring when I have time and money to pour into it again.

And I give Jane something nice everyday :wink:

Now, back on topic.

Who's into autocrossing?

Tony

 

[TurboTony]

Whelp, went to the autocross today.

I've got to say that it was a whole pile of fun. The local porsche club put it together, lets just say that a Sy looked kinda out of place alongside a new 996 twin turbo or three.

I learned that 4 drag radials are not the correct tire choice for turning corners at speed. I only made six laps and my fronts were begging for mercy. I called it a day after that.

The first time out I had an instructor drive my truck and I rode shotgun. He was relatively impressed with it. Thank god for 13" baers up front. I've never seen tham smoke like they did in the stop box when he drove it.

Keeping in mind that I didn't change a thing about my truck other than airing up the tires it did okay. The instructor ran a 110 seconds I ran a 116. A really good time is sub 100 seconds and most guys were hovering around the 100 mark.

My first session out I totally blew the hard 90* left at the end of a 1/2 mile straight, excessive speed was an issue. There were a few ohhs and ahhs as a 4000 lb truck was smoking all four going sideways through a set of cones. I'm hoping someone gots some pics of that.

I'll post some pics if anyone is interested.

Looks like I'm going to go hard and set up the truck for this. I'll give up a bit at the 1/4 mile, but who cares. I can't run legally there without a cage anyway. :-?

Tony

 

[KETCH-UP]

Autocross

Autocross

Autocross = Great fun! It will greatly improve your driving skills, and can really save your truck from harm in the event of a deer jumping out or an idiot driver! I have been autocrossing for 12 years with various machines, past 2 years with a TY. Some tips IMO.. Get your truck as low as possible, Get larger front sway bar, Get rear sway bar, approx. 1 inch (Too large and the rear will skate out) Get super heavy side wall slicks ( Hoosier autocross types work great!) You will run approx. 45 psi F, 40psi R. The quicker ratio steering box is a great help. A 5 point harness is going to be needed, not for safety as much as holding you in position on corners. The next issue is, the front will be plowing on corner entry. You can throttle steer pretty good with the AWD, But better yet move any weight to the back. (Battery, intercooler..) Always run with 100% full gas tank. Get as much video as possible to improve your truck and skills. You can get these trucks to perform like high dollar sport cars with practice. You might even create some angry Vette and S-2000 owners!

 

[CAMSTY]

Autocrossing sounds like way too much fun! I'm gonna have to try it!

I can see it now, we'll all be autocrossing next summer

 

[TurboTony]

Re: Autocross

Re: Autocross

Autocross = Great fun! It will greatly improve your driving skills, and can really save your truck from harm in the event of a deer jumping out or an idiot driver! I have been autocrossing for 12 years with various machines, past 2 years with a TY. Some tips IMO.. Get your truck as low as possible, Get larger front sway bar, Get rear sway bar, approx. 1 inch (Too large and the rear will skate out) Get super heavy side wall slicks ( Hoosier autocross types work great!) You will run approx. 45 psi F, 40psi R. The quicker ratio steering box is a great help. A 5 point harness is going to be needed, not for safety as much as holding you in position on corners. The next issue is, the front will be plowing on corner entry. You can throttle steer pretty good with the AWD, But better yet move any weight to the back. (Battery, intercooler..) Always run with 100% full gas tank. Get as much video as possible to improve your truck and skills. You can get these trucks to perform like high dollar sport cars with practice. You might even create some angry Vette and S-2000 owners!

That's pretty much what i had in mind.

Any other tires worth thinking about? I'd like to buy some real radials that I could use on the street and share with the Ty once i get it up and running.

The difficult part might be finding an organization that will let us race with them around here. I doubt the porsche guys that I went with on sunday will like having a pickup truck racing with them. I'm not too sure what the organizers thought when I showed up.

Either way it was quite a blast. I'll have to try again when me and the truck are better prepared.

Tony

 

[jwaller]

my suggestion is to try it with something that wasnt designed as a 4wd truck. But if you have to I know the michelin pilot sports work well for a few twistie friends of mine. and yes smoking bear brakes are a way of life with our trucks thats way I sold mine...

 

[sy2207]

Tony, you have a pm

 

[Tydriver]

Kumho Victo racers with about 50psi in them.. (atleast in front, then use chalk to 'tune' tire roll over)

Brake early, power through corners..

Adjust TOE OUT 1-3*

Drive with 2 feet, slow is one foot.

Slow down to speed up <------- I have hard time with this one.

SCCA and AUTOX > Drag Racing ANY DAY.. Once you do it, the rush is always there, any idiot can drive straight, it takes a driver to turn the wheel. :wink:


www.scca.org has good information..

U can race anything from a GEO METRO to a Z06 or viper whatever.. Anything in between U dont have to have $$ to go fast.. Just talent and patience...





Wanna hear something truly odd ? I wouldnt have believed this if I didnt witness it first hand.. There was a doode at one event that literally had to be pushing 70-75 years old. He drove a new Nissan Sentra Type R (yeah I know). The guy could barely walk the course (seriously he had a cane)... But he was SOOOOO smooth that he beat 95% of the HOT cars with a 4door with less than 200hp and no remarkable handling...

 

[TrboSy2051]

It's tricky, but try to build boost while breaking in the corners (drive w/ both feet)... that way you sling shot out of them.................manually shift gears............bridgestone potenza's are a decent tire for a decent price (check your psi's though)............build boost on the line unless the first turn is close and hard....and of course the suspension upgrades mentioned........ i had a prob w/ the power steering fluid getting hot, maybe a cooler for that if you run into the same thing...............keep your truck in good tune.................AND always race on a rainy/damp track day, if there willing (you'll smoke em' )

HTH
Buddy

 

[eqs_sy]

I would go with coil overs. Do a search in the suspension section of this forum. It will be expensive but you can hang with the Porche's and Z06's all day.


Ernest

 

[HighPerformanceTrucks]

I'm having decent results with 45psi rear 40 psi front. I went higher in the rear to get the truck to oversteer more.

I haven't tried the left breaking in competition so far as I don't feel confident enough with it yet as the modulation isn't real good. I need to practice that more on the street. I'll say that it my times suffer w/o left foot breaking due to lag esp. at 5000 ft!

The one thing that improved my time the most was trying to be as smooth as possible and keep my speed up. Screaching tires around turns only scrubs off precious time. If you want to show off by burning your tires or go enter a drift contest.

Other advise not mentioned is go as wide as possible on the tires. I'm running 275's now, but 315's would be even better.

 

[tyndago]

I'm having decent results with 45psi rear 40 psi front. I went higher in the rear to get the truck to oversteer more.
Other advise not mentioned is go as wide as possible on the tires. I'm running 275's now, but 315's would be even better.

Wider is better. But a sticky tire is better also. Look and see what everyone else is running. If you can afford those tires, use them. If you put 315's on the rear you are going to increase the tendency for the understeering car to understeer more.

I personally find a car that oversteers a little easier to drive on a road course. I hate turning in and push...... Its the safe way, but not the way I like to get down.

Big rear bar- leave the front bar alone. A larger front bar will inrcrease the tendency to understeer.

A big rear bar will help you get towards a netural handling car.

Getting the 4000lb AWD pig to turn and handle is a little difficult.Lose weight. It will corner better. The brakes will work better. Everything will like you more.

Reading - there are some good books out there.

Chassis Engineering by Herb Adams
How to Make Your Car Handle by Fred Puhn

 

[DanenGraham]

Auto-x is what i am wanting to do with my truck. I have a BT rear bar (in room), JS coilsovers (on order), and want the 3in drop fiberglass leafs. I want to put 18in zo6 wheels on but have a Q??


My friend has some Weld wheels (not sure what kind) but there for the strip, with his 28in e/t it only weights like 15-20Lbs. How the hell can it weigh that little with the tire?? IF i could find a big enough wheel size i would by them.

 

[tyndago]

My friend has some Weld wheels (not sure what kind) but there for the strip, with his 28in e/t it only weights like 15-20Lbs. How the hell can it weigh that little with the tire?? IF i could find a big enough wheel size i would by them.

I don't know if it can weigh that little. The bias ply slick is a lot lighter than a steel belted street tire.

A 15" wheel thats 7-8" wide can be fairly light.

As light as you will see is about 1lb per inch of wheel. So a 16 - 16 lbs . 18 - 18lbs. They only get heavier from there.

The tire is probably 7-10 lbs. So if its a 15 with a light tire - it might be 22lbs at best.

 

[vortecfiero]

I autocrossed and hot lapped a DETCH prepared mustang for 2 summers and had a pile of fun

1) Avoid Miata or VW club events. The courses are very tight on purpose!

2) Avoid using anymore than moderate hp. Brakes and smoothness rule the day. Smoothness
and consistancy come with experience. Experience comes with going out and having a lot
of fun a lot of times. Miatas and front wheel drives usually do well at these events

3) Every car/setup/driver likes a different line through a corner. This is important to
remember because the Porsche/Corvette guys usually set out a large scale course so roadcircuit
"generaly accepted techniques" apply. Apex and brake late! Get all of your breaking done
before the turn in point and carry as much of a CONSTANT speed after breaking before you
enter the corner and carry it till just before a late apex. When cornering at full G's do not
do anything to upset the loading of the tires, for example no brakeing, no shifting and NO
accelarating (yet). If you are pulling "10/10ths" around a corner and do any of the above
you will change the balance loose it big time.

4) Walking the course with an experienced driver helps but I usualy found that with the first
few warm up "get acquainted" runs I would take it easy. Getting to know a new course is half
the battle AND GETTING LOST IS SOOOO EASY !

it usually takes most of a whole season to just get the hang of it.

some of my hobby jobs in the past

Course Manager Mercedes Driving Excellence
Course Manager Audi Quattro Experience
Instructor Porsche Advanced Drivers School

 

[Zewerr@hotmail.com]

You don't race the Fiero???? That things made for autocrossing! I have 4 seasons of autocrossing with my Fiero. It's a blast! Got 1st this year in my class. Since I'm supposively rebuilding my engine in my Fiero now, I probably won't be done with it before the start of next season. So out comes the Syclone!!!! I'm very eager to see how that thing does. Though I won't be as competetive, I will race strickly for fun. And I heard when I race for fun, I'm one of the most entertaining to watch.

 

[vortecfiero]

You don't race the Fiero???? That things made for autocrossing! I have 4 seasons of autocrossing with my Fiero. It's a blast! Got 1st this year in my class. Since I'm supposively rebuilding my engine in my Fiero now, I probably won't be done with it before the start of next season. So out comes the Syclone!!!! I'm very eager to see how that thing does. Though I won't be as competetive, I will race strickly for fun. And I heard when I race for fun, I'm one of the most entertaining to watch.

of course I autocross the the Fiero ! lol but that is a subject for way "off topic" ha ha

try 1/16 toe out on all 4 corners on the fiero.... now we're talking fun !

 

[TYTILIDIE]

Anyone auto x their TY? Ive thugth about this for when I get the money to do the suspension. I miss my Vette primarily cause it cornered with a breeze and the TY always feels like its gonna roll over if I try to take it fast through turns.

Mike