Wtf !!!!!

[Silly]

Re: Wtf !!!!!

Admins and Mods who turn a blind eye to a vendor REPEATEDLY not keeping his end of a deal are just as responsible as the vendor himself.

You ban or revoke privileges for single members who are in the doghouse or other violations. You (general use) have threatened to ban me before for simply posting my thoughts, I never once took anyone's money. You are saying that taking someone's money and not providing the service or getting the results you were promised is not as bad as simply making a post that stirs the pot?

I am not making this post in regards to Waller or in regards to any particular vendor.

I am just saying that is not the right approach to take and does nothing whatsoever to help the community as a whole and if anything, contributes to the problem.

 

[Syclone#1992]

Re: Wtf !!!!!

Admins and Mods who turn a blind eye to a vendor REPEATEDLY not keeping his end of a deal are just as responsible as the vendor himself.

I am just saying that is not the right approach to take and does nothing whatsoever to help the community as a whole and if anything, contributes to the problem.

Lets get real Mike. If people have been screwed that bad, they should take legal action if they are that angry. In all reality what is a Moderator or Admin going to do that will solve the situation? So anytime someone doesn't have pleasant experience with a vendor we are suppose to ban that vendor?

I didn't come one here to police this board and be a SyTy prosecutor, judge or jury member. :tup:

 

[sy2675]

Re: Wtf !!!!!

Admins and Mods who turn a blind eye to a vendor REPEATEDLY not keeping his end of a deal are just as responsible as the vendor himself.

You ban or revoke privileges for single members who are in the doghouse or other violations. You (general use) have threatened to ban me before for simply posting my thoughts, I never once took anyone's money. You are saying that taking someone's money and not providing the service or getting the results you were promised is not as bad as simply making a post that stirs the pot?

I am not making this post in regards to Waller or in regards to any particular vendor.

I am just saying that is not the right approach to take and does nothing whatsoever to help the community as a whole and if anything, contributes to the problem.

I have to mostly agree with silly, even tho he is silly :rotf:

I have also had no bad dealings with waller, always got what i needed/ask for from the guy.

 

[MikeRenz]

Re: Wtf !!!!!

does nothing whatsoever to help the community as a whole

well thats unfair in this situation. Waller has made good on plenty of transactions that had issues....and people have even clarified this in the 2 threads about him. You just don't hear about the good as much as the bad....becuase everyone just expects a good transaction and then doesn't post about it. Then again...who wants to read about every great transaction...i know i don't care to read about if someone bought a chip and got it the same week.

EVERY vendor has had their issues with customers...Rockford, RPM, Waller, Turbotime, PG, JSM, DPT, PEP, MPE, etc. It's nothing new...especially not in the motorsports world. Some worse than others, sure. Some are more publicized than others too. Often its the customers fault, not the vendor.....and often its the vendors fault, not the customer. How are we as admins/mods supposed to rank at what point to pull a vendor sponsorship allowance? Once they have 3 bad transactions? Once they hit 25% bad? There is no fair way to justify it. Once a vendor runs themselves into the ground, or just pull their own products off the shelves/stop producing parts...then they just stop paying to be a vendor anyway.

 

[Silly]

Re: Wtf !!!!!

Lets get real Mike. If people have been screwed that bad, they should take legal action if they are that angry. In all reality what is a Moderator or Admin going to do that will solve the situation? So anytime someone doesn't have pleasant experience with a vendor we are suppose to ban that vendor?

I didn't come one here to police this board and be a SyTy prosecutor, judge or jury member. :tup:

Legal action solves what for the board? How does that help other members who are not sure who to deal with? Matt has made multiple reference to his dealings and now he has mods tell him to stop posting, therefore silencing him on the subject. But if that vendor was no longer a sponsor/vendor of the site their banner would not be as easily accessible to the new, uneducated members.

I never said the Mods/Admins needed to SOLVE anything, but they should do what they can to prevent further instances. No action helps anything how?

Two final points:

1. Can you quote me where I said anything in relation to your quote here "So anytime someone doesn't have pleasant experience with a vendor we are suppose to ban that vendor?"

I believe I did not say anything of that nature.

2. This quote struck me as odd and off as well: "I didn't come one here to police this board and be a SyTy prosecutor, judge or jury member."

Then why are you a mod? What did you expect with the title? Seems like you like the title and not the responsibility which may contribute to the problem as well.

Again, I am speaking in general here and I am not taking sides in this argument in particular.

 

[Silly]

Re: Wtf !!!!!

well thats unfair in this situation.

I am not speaking about Waller but as vendors go as a whole. I want no part of this particular argument.

How are we as admins/mods supposed to rank at what point to pull a vendor sponsorship allowance?

Maybe that is something for the Mods/Admins to discuss? I say when a pattern has developed. I think that would be fair.

 

[Syclone#1992]

Re: Wtf !!!!!

Then why are you a mod? What did you expect with the title? Seems like you like the title and not the responsibility which may contribute to the problem as well.

I am a Moderator because I felt I could help out the board by moving posts to the right section, trying to keep things under control, keeping it clean and running smoothly and MAINLY because I enjoy the trucks!

I am done posting in this thread! :tup: And people wonder why this community keeps getting smaller, and smaller, and smaller..........

 

[MikeRenz]

Re: Wtf !!!!!

SyTy prosecutor, judge or jury member.

he's saying that he doesn't want to babysit customer/vendor feuds...none of us WANT to have to do it. Yes, it happens from time to time....but its not what we want to see happen, nor what we'd rather spend our time taking care of.

Stop trying to nitpick every little statement grammatically. Stirring the pot is one thing...but do you really think THIS helps the community?? Are you stabbing one place to heal another? You are far from posting for the betterment of the board in this case...and you know it.

 

[Silly]

Re: Wtf !!!!!

he's saying that he doesn't want to babysit customer/vendor feuds...none of us WANT to have to do it. Yes, it happens from time to time....but its not what we want to see happen, nor what we'd rather spend our time taking care of.

Stop trying to nitpick every little statement grammatically. Stirring the pot is one thing...but do you really think THIS helps the community?? Are you stabbing one place to heal another? You are far from posting for the betterment of the board in this case...and you know it.

This just proves my point.

I get more people jumping me for a POST than other members do who don't keep their end of a deal.

That is what is ****ed up about this website and community. Nothing else. Priorities are all jacked up, as they have been for years.

I should stop posting and start scamming people, I will catch less heat that way.

your stabbing comment was just plain ignorant and you know that. To even assume something like that shows where your thought pattern is.
I have not once bashed waller, in fact, for the last 3 days in the chat I have said numerous time I have only had GOOD business with him and he even went out of his way to help me previously when he did not have to.

 

[Silly]

Re: Wtf !!!!!

Stirring the pot is one thing...but do you really think THIS helps the community??

I made a suggestion for the mods/admins as to how to handle these types of situation and if and when to revoke vendor privileges.

I have ATTEMPTED to help, what else has anyone else done besides say leave it alone and stop talking about it?

Do as I say and not as I do RACING

 

[CLONE]

Re: Wtf !!!!!

The more tolerant we become the more people we turn away from our group. There is no exclusiveness in a group that accepts everyone.

 

[nello]

Re: Wtf !!!!!

Maybe someone can setup a POLL??? No more stories, to much he said/she said. Lets just see how people really feel. Name the vendor and good/bad/don't care experience as an example. It's all anonymous and unlike a trader rating people won't feel like their burning a bridge with their vote. Besides, why shouldn't the vendor know how people really feel without adding all the neg comments. MAybe the admins will be kind enough to post the results in the vendors page?

Lots of emotions pooring out in this post(s). IF you feel ripped off your going to want to word vomit so I totally understand. IMO, which isn't worth the keyboard I'm typing on, some vendors in the past were all about SyTys. But its possible as the years have gone on they are a little less interested..:dunno: Just a thought.

 

[NecroWolf]

Re: Wtf !!!!!

i got a little shorted by a very popular vender here. i didn't smear him, i would probably be more flamed than hotrodv6 if i said anything about it probably. so i just don't do business there any more. end of story. i keep hearing how all these "other" people who have had bad experiences with mr waller, how someone talked to people local to him who got burnt too yet if you can talk to loacals in his area why don't you stop in and see him. he burnt a chip for me but was a little slow getting it back but i got it and would do business with him again. especially considering how complicated tuning a stock ecm can be and how decent my truck ran afterwards. it wasn' t perfect but for not even seeing my truck it was pretty good. he's even answered questions for me that had nothing to do with him. and personally if it was me and someone kept calling and emailing after i'd said it take a little longer because of something out of my control i'd probably dump them to the bottom of my todo list too. and as far as an off the shelf tune for your truck, once you get away from the basics like 50lb injectors and maybe a turbo upgrade, its been posted here time and time again you're pretty well on your own. my advice is do what you gotta do leave feedback that is fully profane, cut your losses and buy your own equiptment to tune with or go fast, big stuff 3 or accel dfi and take care of it yourself.

 

[420]

Re: Wtf !!!!!

The board's refusal to remove a moderator who has repeated issues is allowing that vendor to continue to hurt new members who may not be aware of the history. Yes, Waller gets it right some of the time. But I believe that his misdeeds far outweigh the transactions that come out right.

You are correct. There is a tendancy to hear of the bad things more than the good. This is because when I as a customer hand my money to a vendor, it is because a certain EXPECTATION has been set. When those expectations are merely met, there is no need to publically mention that. Now, when a vendor goes above and beyond the expectations set, I believe that customers should make it known. I know that I have posted at least one thread on this board letting everyone know when a vendor far surpassed my expectations. I also spent $1500 with that vendor as the result.

In regard to the question of "well, why don't I just sue him", the fact that I have not filed a lawsuit is mainly due to my lack of documentation at the beginning of my dealings with Waller, as I never in a million years expected to be treated like I was. Thus, the only recourse I have left is to try and prevent others from ending up in the same situation I am.

When a community allows a vendor to advertise and conduct transactions via the message board, it should be the result of more than just receiving a check for a banner. They are setting that vendor forth as a company who is honest, trustworthy, and deserving of a sponsor status. They are encouraging new and existing members to do business with that vendor. In turn, when a vendor proves that he is undeserving of such a status, the banners should be taken down and the vendors forum closed, regardless of any money received for advertising.

We all acknowledge that Vendors will have unhappy customers, regardless of who the vendor is. However, Waller has more than his fair share of these, and the severity (at least in my case) is extreme. So my question to you, admins and owners of this board is this:

How much is enough?

- Matt

 

[MikeRenz]

Re: Wtf !!!!!

This just proves my point.

I get more people jumping me for a POST than other members do who don't keep their end of a deal.

That is what is ****ed up about this website and community. Nothing else. Priorities are all jacked up, as they have been for years.

I should stop posting and start scamming people, I will catch less heat that way.

your stabbing comment was just plain ignorant and you know that. To even assume something like that shows where your thought pattern is.
I have not once bashed waller, in fact, for the last 3 days in the chat I have said numerous time I have only had GOOD business with him and he even went out of his way to help me previously when he did not have to.

I'm not jumping on your for your post. I'm responding to it. There is a big difference. I'm simply defending the admins/mods here since you are implying that we aren't doing ours jobs. I was trying to reason with you as to why we are doing our jobs, and that its a tough line to walk to please everyone.

The stabbing comments was in reference to you saying we aren't doing our jobs. Its not ignorant..i wastrying to say that hacking away at the admins/mods for supposedly not doing the right thing....to try and fix something else....doesn't get the board/community anywhere - in fact all it does is attempt to call out the admins/mods for mismanaging things. I know where my thought pattern is...i don't think you fully understand my point of view here.

 

[MikeRenz]

Re: Wtf !!!!!

Maybe someone can setup a POLL??? No more stories, to much he said/she said. Lets just see how people really feel. Name the vendor and good/bad/don't care experience as an example. It's all anonymous and unlike a trader rating people won't feel like their burning a bridge with their vote. Besides, why shouldn't the vendor know how people really feel without adding all the neg comments. MAybe the admins will be kind enough to post the results in the vendors page?

Lots of emotions pooring out in this post(s). IF you feel ripped off your going to want to word vomit so I totally understand. IMO, which isn't worth the keyboard I'm typing on, some vendors in the past were all about SyTys. But its possible as the years have gone on they are a little less interested..:dunno: Just a thought.

This isn't a site to rate/rank vendors. If you want to see results like this....start another website to do exactly what you're referring to. SyTy.net does not want to start preferrential vendor treatment based on possible objective/misleading information.

 

[MikeRenz]

Re: Wtf !!!!!

So my question to you, admins and owners of this board is this:

How much is enough?

instead of simply asking a question....how about you try to do the difficult thing - answer the question. It's an extremely tough question to answer, and you know it. I agree that we don't want some vendor around here that does nothing but swindle/steal money/ruin trucks/etc....but when a vendor has a mixed emotion following....how do you expect anyone to measure/gauge the threshold of enough-is-enough? There is no fair way to assess it. Really sit and think about it...without going keyboard commando on the topic....think about the repercussions on all the vendors, keeping it fair for everyone, ensuring that a claim is justly raised, having it proven to be true, not taking any one person/vendor's side, properly getting both party's sides......it turns into a People's Court. No one here has the right to say "Person XX is to blame." becuase it'll be a very rare instance where either the customer or the vendor simply states "yes, that was fully my fault. I am the only one to blame."

Just think about it for a little...and you start to realize what exactly it is that you're asking us to do/implement. It goes a lot further than a simple "remove a banner".

 

[420]

Re: Wtf !!!!!

instead of simply asking a question....how about you try to do the difficult thing - answer the question. It's an extremely tough question to answer, and you know it. I agree that we don't want some vendor around here that does nothing but swindle/steal money/ruin trucks/etc....but when a vendor has a mixed emotion following....how do you expect anyone to measure/gauge the threshold of enough-is-enough? There is no fair way to assess it. Really sit and think about it...without going keyboard commando on the topic....think about the repercussions on all the vendors, keeping it fair for everyone, ensuring that a claim is justly raised, having it proven to be true, not taking any one person/vendor's side, properly getting both party's sides......it turns into a People's Court. No one here has the right to say "Person XX is to blame." becuase it'll be a very rare instance where either the customer or the vendor simply states "yes, that was fully my fault. I am the only one to blame."

Just think about it for a little...and you start to realize what exactly it is that you're asking us to do/implement. It goes a lot further than a simple "remove a banner".

I'll be glad to answer the question. Once the vendor has established a pattern (more than three instances) of not delivering on commitments to customers, that vendor should be removed. Anyone alleging wrongdoing on the vendors part needs to substantiate their claims with evidence, and anyone being found to be making a blatently false claim would be banned. Moderators and admins hold voting power to determine if a claim of the person is substantial enough to merit being considered one of the three strikes, and voting is conducted in private in the admin forum. There should also be a public Vendor Feedback section to allow members to air their grievances publically, and allow anyone considering doing business with a vendor a clear place to do research prioer to the sale.

Either that, or plant a nice big, clear disclaimer at the top of the Vendor Section that says "SyTy.net does not endorse any vendor or sponsor of the board. These people simply cut us a check to be here." And at that point, Caveat emptor


I'm an admin on the South Florida F Body Association website (www.sffba.net), and we get to deal with this kind of stuff just like you. Never pleasant, never easy, but it is a necessary evil of the job.

- Matt

 

[MikeRenz]

Re: Wtf !!!!!

just so everyone realizes....we as admins/mods are discussing what actions could/should (if any) be taken to handle all of this. Just becuase its LOOKS like nothing is being done...doesn't mean we aren't dealing with it, or at the very least acknowledging it.

It takes more than 3 seconds to settle a dispute...and to make a justifiable decision on anything....especially when there are many people that need to help decide on it, all of which work during the day and aren't necessarily on syty.net every 15 seconds to read every post.

 

[Silly]

Re: Wtf !!!!!

I'm not jumping on your for your post. I'm responding to it. There is a big difference. I'm simply defending the admins/mods here since you are implying that we aren't doing ours jobs. I was trying to reason with you as to why we are doing our jobs, and that its a tough line to walk to please everyone.

The stabbing comments was in reference to you saying we aren't doing our jobs. Its not ignorant..i wastrying to say that hacking away at the admins/mods for supposedly not doing the right thing....to try and fix something else....doesn't get the board/community anywhere - in fact all it does is attempt to call out the admins/mods for mismanaging things. I know where my thought pattern is...i don't think you fully understand my point of view here.

All I ask is that the Mods/Admin all get on the same page and have a gameplan for how to handle these threads and how to handle repeat offenders.

All I have taken from this thread is no one is on the same page.

If that discussion is in the works behind the scene then great, keep it up and let the rest of us know the outcome.