Wicked Rich Idle

[Don W.]

Re: Wicked Rich Idle

Post 18 above says he has a Innovate SCG-1. Good question on the movement. My plx is constantly dancing around a bit. Never rock steady. There should/might be a calibration sequence in the instructions as well. I just checked and there is a calibration procedure in the instructions.

 

[IGottaSy]

Re: Wicked Rich Idle

I had similar issues with this new chip. Went to old style and problems went away.

You mention the chip is programmed for your specific wideband BUT is your wideband setting correct for the chip? I know that was one of my main issues I overlooked. This new chip, in my case, would act weird when connected to datamaster. I kept getting spikes at idle for no reason as if I had a short or something. This brings me to the next question. How is your wideband connected to ECM? Signal lead and where is the ground?

Hope you fix it cause I'd like to try that chip again now that we have E85 and 93 octane in this town.

 

[Don W.]

Re: Wicked Rich Idle

I had similar issues with this new chip. Went to old style and problems went away.

You mention the chip is programmed for your specific wideband BUT is your wideband setting correct for the chip? I know that was one of my main issues I overlooked. This new chip, in my case, would act weird when connected to datamaster. I kept getting spikes at idle for no reason as if I had a short or something. This brings me to the next question. How is your wideband connected to ECM? Signal lead and where is the ground?

Hope you fix it cause I'd like to try that chip again now that we have E85 and 93 octane in this town.

Curious what spiked at idle when on the new chip?

Just my :2cents: but an E85 tune is gonna be different than a pump gas tune whither 91 or 93. How do you set the WB for the chip other than to have the WB and the chip set individually for the fuel being used? I know that Eric has told me in the past to try to have a common ground for everything so that's a good idea. I just used one of the cover screws on the ECM case. Eric refers to the "Memcal Adapter" I think of the adapter and the actual chip as two different things. But anyway, it's weird to me that your old style adapter would work and not the new style.

If he's getting a WB reading on TunerPro then I suspect that his wiring is correct. It might be worthwhile, as a test, to put in a stock o2, turn sw 4 off and see what happens. As I understand things all it will do is prevent param 7 (leave it at 99) from being used and no 02 will showup on TunerPro.

An interesting question would be does turning on sw3 disable sw4?

All that being said I use the later adapter and my truck runs pretty good. My settings are nowhere near "0" or 128 but Eric says that doesn't make any difference. IOW if he were make me a new chip with those settings as the new 128 the truck would run the same. I'll see if I can post a small video of how smooth the idle is and how little tach flutter there is.

My next suggestion would be to a) switch back to a known good stock NB 02 make sure sw3 and sw4 are off and b) to consider springing for a new ECM. (Even though my truck ran on the old ECM before I toasted it, it did run better with the new one. At 25 years capacitors and resisters do get old.)

Certainly a curious problem.

 

[Don W.]

Re: Wicked Rich Idle

Short video of my truck idling. Relatively smooth, I think, with little tach shake but I have nothing to compare it to.

VID 20170606 093523 - YouTube

 

[coupecustom]

Re: Wicked Rich Idle

Regarding the dist, how steady is the tach needle?

I didn't get to record the part of the run were, putting in a little throttle resulted in the misfiring, but at idle its pretty smooth. Not solid, there's a small amount of flutter, and the idle does seem to hunt at times...so that's part of it.

 

[coupecustom]

Re: Wicked Rich Idle

Post 18 above says he has a Innovate SCG-1. Good question on the movement. My plx is constantly dancing around a bit. Never rock steady. There should/might be a calibration sequence in the instructions as well. I just checked and there is a calibration procedure in the instructions.

I have calibrated the wideband several times. Every time I disconnect the battery and reconnect I recalibrate.

As for movement, I get lots. Definitely not stationary. I can just tell those seem to be the target numbers its dancing around.

 

[coupecustom]

Re: Wicked Rich Idle

boy that does run smooth.

I went ahead and purchased a brand new AcDelco ignition control module. I was able to verify that the distributor I have did not come with the "Typhoon" ICM so I figured regardless this would be a good thing to help narrow the scope of the problem. I should receive that tomorrow. I'll try then to do the install and redo the timing (just to be sure). The fuel pressure, I ordered a gauge as well, so when that gets here, I'll make those adjustments too.

I don't have a narrow band sensor anymore, so hoping I get a little closer with the new ICM before having to do that test.

I really don't want to go with a new computer. If it gets to that, I think I will seriously consider selling off what I can and go stand alone.

 

[Don W.]

Re: Wicked Rich Idle

Hard to quantify but the new ECM helped smooth the idle. Which, in turn, helped with the entire range.

 

[IGottaSy]

Re: Wicked Rich Idle

I wish I could answer that but I'm at a loss. As far as I know, the only differences would have been the wideband wiring and the new chip. All else remained unchanged. I replaced original narrow band and stabbed old chip and all was good. One difference in the tune though, was the old chip is for 91 octane and the new one is for 93 which just became available at one gas station in a 100K+ population town. I'm reading on for new developments in this thread. The problem is very similar if not the same.

 

[0966Sy]

Re: Wicked Rich Idle

You mentioned it has a slightly rough idle, does your digital gauge show a fluctuating vacuum? Try a mechanical vacuum gauge and see how steady your idle vacuum is. If it bounces you could just simply need to adjust the valve lash again. New lifters can tend to settle after first start up and adjustment.

 

[WyoSyclone]

Re: Wicked Rich Idle

A rough idle combined with being wicked rich tells me you've got a cylinder down... probably a plug wire. I had this exact same thing happen to me when I first bought my Sy. Got my multimeter out and checked each wire and found the culprit..... bought the Magnecor KV85 Competition wires and haven't had a problem since.

 

[Don W.]

Re: Wicked Rich Idle

A rough idle combined with being wicked rich tells me you've got a cylinder down... probably a plug wire. I had this exact same thing happen to me when I first bought my Sy. Got my multimeter out and checked each wire and found the culprit..... bought the Magnecor KV85 Competition wires and haven't had a problem since.

Clear back on post 11 he says he installed a set of Magnacor's. That doesn't mean he doesn't have a bum cyl somewhere though. Could be a bad cap, cracked plug, mis-adjusted valves, Maybe a compression test is in order and/or a leak-down.

 

[WyoSyclone]

Re: Wicked Rich Idle

Yup, I understand that, Don, but it still doesn't discount that a plug wire may be an issue.

EDIT.... reading back from the beginning I see that it was also a problem on the old engine. One thing that probably remains from the old build is the injector harness...could be worth disconnecting it and checking it with a multimeter.

 

[WyoSyclone]

Re: Wicked Rich Idle

If you want to send me your logs, I'd be glad to take a look. wyosyclone@comcast.net
Also, I think I remember screwing up one of the terminations on the Magnecors when I installed them... would be really easy to recheck with a meter.

 

[Don W.]

Re: Wicked Rich Idle

No prob Rob, just didn't know if you had missed it. I also agree that there is something haywire because the prob existed with the old motor. The harness is a good idea. If one leg was shorted to ground that would sure do it. But would it even run that way? I sure wish he had a different ECM to try. Magnacor will make any wire you want so I just let them terminate them. Also, not pulling the wires off by the boots, IE using the wire itself to tug on them, can separate the wire internally causing all kinds of fun. And Magnacor boots fit fairly tight. Little secret, that's' one terminal job I've never trusted myself with...:squint: Just a ton of possibilities here.

 

[Damian]

Re: Wicked Rich Idle

Get a narrow band in there and see if it runs rich. Erik had to reflash my chip with new parameters for my wideband. But if it's running at 14.6-14.7, that's where it's supposed to be. How is your coil?

 

[coupecustom]

Re: Wicked Rich Idle

I didn't get my ICM in the mail yesterday, so that test has not been completed yet. Hoping to receive it today and run the truck again. From there I'll do a new recording, idle till warm, short drive and idle when back. I'll try to be methodical as to not screw up the results.

For valve lash, I did not set it per say. The rocker set that I have is from an 02 vortec motor with the rocker bar mount. So for that you simply install the rocker and torque down to the specified setting. It would however be interesting to see where that torque setting put the valve lash. I also reused the lifters, from the rebuild. Interesting point there is that if I DO check valve last, and one or more are way out...it would indicate a bad lifter. (God please say it aint so). My rebuild was a factory refresh style. Basically new rings, bearings, honed, new plugs, etc. No new pistons, or rods or anything of that nature.

For ruff idle....I think its best to just change out the ICM and really see where I'm at. Ruff idle can be so many things, and I've thrown a lot at this problem, so I'm going to try to simplify here to get a new baseline. I'll just complete the ICM, check timing, check FP, double check IAC, and report those settings and engine behavior.

If the ICM has no effect I'll start to do the following tests in order:

1. check the new wires...see what the resistance is
2. remove MSD and run with stock config
3. check valve lash, searching for bad lifter
4. find a nb 02 to test with
5. see if I can source another ECM to test

 

[Don W.]

Re: Wicked Rich Idle

With non adjustable rockers there is no "lash" to check. What you're doing is checking/setting lifter pre-load. If you kept ALL old parts, or replaced with correct new, then your pre-load should be close to correct minus what was milled off the block and heads. Valve stem height must also be correct. For a bunch of links on how to check this search "checking lifter pre-load with non adjustable rockers chev" The best one I saw was this one:

www.cranecams.com/pdf-tech-tips/hydro-lift.pdf

Read some of the others for good explanations of what's happening.

However, a compression check will show a weak cyl which could indicate incorrect pre-load holding a valve open a tiny bit. Much easier than the above testing procedure. I would certainly do that first.

HTH

 

[coupecustom]

Re: Wicked Rich Idle

okay I have an update:
Yesterday I installed the ICM and adjusted the fuel pressure, as well as checked the timing. ICM install was a breeze. Timing was dead on zero with brown wire disconnected. Fuel pressure was not as easy, here's why: the gauge bounced a lot at first. The gauge was bouncing between 32 and 42 in an extremely rapid fashion. I was running the truck to set it. Since the bouncing was so crazy, I shut off the truck and went in the house while the truck cooled. I had it pretty warm from checking timing. After about an hour, I returned to the truck started it up and the gauge no longer bounced. The more the truck ran, the more that it started to bounce. Not as crazy but still oscillating between 38 and 43. I was able to set the pressure from what I could tell to 43. The pressure had been set previously at 44 with the truck not running. With the truck running the FP was initially at 38. (hose off of regulator of course).

Because I had to raise the pressure with the truck running and the gauge would become more sporadic, I think its time to hotwire the fuel pump. The truck used to have a boost a pump when I first purchased it. I removed it and soldiered the power wire back together (this was about 5 years ago). I think that age, the old setup, solidering and whatnot is contributing to weak voltage at the pump, and when it gets hot it gets worse. I have plenty of wiring and relays and crimp tools and what not to do my own hotwire...so I will.

I set the IAC at 30 since it moved just a tad after the fuel pressure was set and warmed up. Hard to keep it from moving a little though...I think cause of the pump.

I also took it for a drive to see how it performed. It did great at first. No more misfiring, backfiring, and tip in was quite good and responsive. BLM still climbs after driving for a bit and then putting the truck in park. After a good twenty minute drive it was at 160 BLM. Interestingly enough the raw fuel smell seems to be much much less, at least when the truck is just idling....very hard to tell, but I'm convinced the plug wires and ICM have helped with that.

 

[coupecustom]

Re: Wicked Rich Idle

Now about the mismatched AFR:
When I first started driving the truck AFR on the scanmaster and the AFR on the innovate gauge matched. It stayed like this for about 15mins of driving. Boost was responsive, idle was smooth, things were good. Honestly its the best I've ever had the truck perform. Then for some reason the AFR on the innovate gauge started to raise to about 16.3 while cruising and the scanmaster and computer were showing 14.3. It was still moving around, not stuck, so I'm giving approximations here. It was at this point that the truck really was running much more ruff and the smell of heated exhaust was noticeable. When I saw it change, I drove the truck back and shut it off.

Thinking about the issue, this has to be a computer / chip thing. Obviously the wideband is hooked up otherwise I'd get nothing. The dip switch for #4 is definitely set, I double checked. For one reason or another and my guess would be the BLM maxing out, the computer doesn't know what to do, stops reading the wideband correctly and thinks the input is somehow less air than the O2 sensor actually dictates. Not sure.

Next step I think is to do the hotwire on the Fuel Pump. If that helps the AFR issue great. If not, I think its time to consult Eric with that issue, see if he can offer advise.