Please look these parts over

[kue]

I am planning on doing a rebuild on my transmission. The problems I have is no upshift to 4th on WOT and slippage if I build boost in 4th.

As most people here, I don't have a ton of money to throw at this right now. The truck is mostly stock (a 20g and external wastegate) so I think a decent rebuild should serve my purposes. If I have money to build up the engine in a few years, I will invest in a 4l80e then instead of the 700.

Here is a list of parts of I plan on using. Please give me any feedback if there something missing, etc. I should mention I already have a deep Derale pan and external cooler.

Hughes 3000 stall converter (seems to be a decent price and others have used them)
external filter
transmission temp gauge
.500 boost valve (do I really need to swap this?)
reverse boost valve (do I really need to swap this?)
upgrade 1-2 accumulator spring
pump high output slide spring
Alto Red Eagle rebuild kit (steels, frictions, gaskets, etc 8 friction 3-4 pack)
Wide Alto kevlar band
new drum for above band
29 element input sprag
low/reverse spring roller
Sonnax 3-4 WOT upshift TV
bushing set

Thanks
Ben

 

[leadfoot]

Re: Please look these parts over

What does the trans fluid look like? dirty, burnt, normal??
Levels OK? Obviously a cooler and aftermarket pan are going to increase fluid capacity.
When was the last time it was changed?
How many miles are on it? -any rebuilds?

 

[kue]

Re: Please look these parts over

The fluid was replaced last fall when I installed the pan. The cooler has been there for a couple years now. The fluid seems fine, no burnt smell or any debris.

As far as I know, the trans has never been rebuilt. It has the signature stiff shifts, shift points are correct, etc. I figured that I want to get the parts together that are needed for a rebuild and if I find any suprises when I get in there, I will have to deal with it then.

All things considered, the transmission is in decent shape. The previous owner had a problem with the factory boost selinoid, and as a result the truck was only building 7-8 lbs of boost. This alone probably spared the transmission from the beating it normally would have to deal with.

I should also mention the truck has about 150k on it now. Just want to get something to run in there for the next 1.5 years until I have money to dump into the truck.

 

[InvisiBill]

Re: Please look these parts over

Isn't the 20g pretty close to stock? I'd think a converter that stalls at 3000 is probably too much for that. Stock is under 2200. Higher stall will help you spool up a bigger turbo, but it will also affect the RPM range that your truck operates in. You might end up hurting engine performance for a small bit of turbo spooling...

What I think happened, just from what you've told me, is the fatal 3rd
accumulator retainer and ball assembly was leaking and he didn't check it. I
replace it in EVERY build. If this leaks just the least little bit, you
slowly burn up 3-4 clutches which makes a slippy 2-3 shift. This valve was
put there to help exhaust 3rd and 4th oil quickly as well has purge air on
initial break in. If it leaks though, you will have a failure. It'll feel
perfect at first and then destroy your forward and 3-4 clutches.
You've got the beast shell, so your good there.
I recommend the new sprag assembly with a BW element.
The HD alto kit is fine for yours. I'll replace your apply plate with a thin
5.53mm one piece apply and add two additional clutch plates to the 3-4 for a
total of 8.
Transgo high rev springs replace the input drum load release springs.(new
clutch material and stackup calibration make them not function correctly)
HD 2nd and 4th accumulator springs with pinless accumulator pistons.
I'll replace the pump if its messed up. If not, I rebuild them with better
valves, springs, and unbreakable pump rings.
I'll see what your input drum is like. If it's fubar(cracked), I'll have to
replace it of course. I've got used ones here and I'll get you a price on a
new one so you can make a decision on that.
Your converter MUST be replaced. If you had a warranty on the old one, send
it back and let them cut it apart and redo it. If not, I can get you a Dacco
unit with any stall from stock to 2500 rpm or a new one. I think there is
another new one out that guys are using that has a slightly higher stall and
I can get those too.
If your gonna race it, you should have a reinforced input drum. Lots of
places make them and I'll get you a price for it as well.
I'm now leaving 4th accumulators intact by using that pinless accumulator
piston with a stronger spring for shift feel improvement as opposed to
eliminating the accumulator(water hammer arrestor).
Here's why. If the clutches apply too fast, with the 4th accumulator
eliminated,(happens when you eliminate the accumulator)they can actually
grab before the sprag does. This slowly damages the sprag until it results
in a catastrophic failure(bent cage). Here's what also happens. Your
cruising along in 4th. No sprag apply. It's freewheeling. Then you do a 4-3.
Sprag is supposed to engage but "hydroplanes" slightly giving the 3-4
clutches time to reapply. The clutches are applied but not holding anything
because the sprag is still slipping. Then the oil film gets broken up enough
for apply. BAM! Broken sprag. Kinda like turning on a breaker that's under a
full load. Exact same thing can happen on a 4-2. That's why even Rossler
tells people NOT to go from part throttle 4th into a forced full throttle
downshift.

Hey, Bill.
After talking with you and seeing some of your posts, your most likely gonna
be OK with just the standard upgrades. Red clutches, thinner 1 piece apply
etc. sounds like you want to retain the truck mainly in its OEM form but
just tweak it. You should be fine with just a stock input drum and
everything. If you have anything that is actually broken(hopefully not)I'll
replace it with the upgraded parts since the cost is pretty close. It is a
little more on some stuff but not rediculous and I'll show you the
comparisons so you can decide.

Here's the prices again.
Some common updates are:
$___ 4L65 high speed sprag
$__ 4L65 apply plate (thinner for more clutches)
$___ Red Alto rebuild kit but with 8 clutches instead of 9. That way I can
get thicker steels in there.
$__ Transgo 7-CS kit for 3-4 clutch spring release update
$__ Unbreakable pump rings for below 5500 rpm use
$__ 3rd accumulator check valve for better metering of 3rd oil.
$_ New 3rd accumulator check ball in case. Prevents leakage and 3-4 burnup.
$_ Rear sun wide bushing. Helps prevent reaction shaft failure
$__ bonded pistons
$__ New low roller BW clutch
$__ pinless accumulator pistons. No oil leakage in accumulators.
$_ HD sonnax 2nd accumulator spring.
$__ .500 TV boost valve.
$__ Transgo separator plate.(I give you back your stock plate to hang on to
since they aren't made anymore. That way you always have your original
programming.)
$__ Brand new TCC solenoid with wiring harness. I replace these as these
solenoids take a BEATING.
$__ New Torringtons
$_ new bushings.
$__ Raybestos powerband for 2-4
$_ Viton input to output shaft seal
$_ Viton D ring seal kit for 2-4 servo lineup

Those are from the SyTy person that rebuilt my trans last year. I took out the prices so as not to cause any issues. That should give you an idea of things to look at. It was about $600 in parts, and I told him that I planned on low-mid 12s at most (with a Daron/Tooky-like plan of tweaking the crap out of a pretty stockish truck). I'm using an "Impala 2200" converter, which was about $200.

 

[kue]

Re: Please look these parts over

Thanks for the info. Good info there. I think I am going to stick with a higher stall converter though. The large exhaust housing on the 20g takes a bit of rpm to get it to spool up.

 

[Hu Ryde]

Re: Please look these parts over

Sonnax 3-4 WOT upshift TV

You shouldn't need this unless your transmission is not stock. They come stock, and as long as your TV cable is adjusted properly it should work.

 

[nightdiver]

Re: Please look these parts over

You also need a stiff spring at the 3-4 accumulator. Also dont forget to discart the 3-4 return springs that goes at the outer area of the input drum.
Seal the little hole on the top of the input drum