Engine Bearings Gone

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Engine Bearings Gone

Does it matter?

If it's valve guides then the heads have to come off and if it is the Eagles then the block need to come out.

You might be ok just removing the heads but then you may have to pull the engine anyway. It's prob easier just pulling it.

When I had the Eagles in my hands I didn't see any gold material. If it's valve guides then there must be something really off with the alignment of your valves/ rocker arms.

Sorry man, this sucks.

Will you investigate this weekend?

 

[mrsyclone]

Re: Engine Bearings Gone

time to pull the motor... suxxorz

X2 sorry =(

 

[ItsMyTy]

Re: Engine Bearings Gone

Only the outer layer of the bearing is silver. The inside is copper colored.

 

[The Devils Own Chariot]

Re: Engine Bearings Gone

Great thanks guys.
You are right, it doesn't matter. Im going to pull it.
Set back on pulling the motor. My neighbor is on vacation and hes got the stand and picker. He will be back next week.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Engine Bearings Gone

Any update?

 

[MoJo]

Re: Engine Bearings Gone

1. Check and see if the "forgotten plug" was "forgotten" by the engine builder. It is unlikely that a professional engine builder would omit that plug, and most do not even remove it when the engine block is cleaned. The so-called " forgotten plug" is located in the oil passage above the rear main cap. It blocks the passage between the oil filter passage and the rear main journal feed passage. If that plug is omitted, strange oil pressure readings will occur and possibly the loss of the front main bearing(s) which will be indicated by glitter in the oil.

2. Make sure the oil filter by-pass valve in the block above the oil filter is installed and staked.That by-pass valve is rated at 11 PSI opening pressure, part number GM 25014006 which is used w/o remote oil cooler. Use a by-pass valve rated at 21 PSI opening pressure, part number GM 25014612, w/oil cooler and remote oil filter (4WD) .

Problem: Using a 11 PSI by-pass in with a remote oil filter and oil cooler has caused front main bearing failures due to diminished oil flow. The flow is reduced because of the restriction in the extra plumbing used with a remote oil filter and oil coolers. That system requires by-pass valves with 21 PSI opening pressure, one in the block and one in the remote oil filter adapter located on the LF fender. . The by-pass valve pressure change was covered in a factory recall about 1988 for all 4WD T10 GMC/Chevrolets. Some engine builders think the oil by pass in the block is unimportant since the oil filter has one. . However, it is extremely important if you have a 2WD with a oil cooler, and is especially important if you have 4WD with a oil cooler and a remote oil filter.

 

[Big Mike]

Re: Engine Bearings Gone

I am having a problem with my motor too but it is because the 4 bolt splayed caps were not origionally installed correct and had too much play, the registers were loose. main caps 1 and 2 showed bad bearings and everything else looked like new. My motor is getting fixed after only 1500 miles. my filter cut open looked like yours, the only way to tell is to take it apart.

 

[Don W.]

Re: Engine Bearings Gone

1. Check and see if the "forgotten plug" was "forgotten" by the engine builder. It is unlikely that a professional engine builder would omit that plug, and most do not even remove it when the engine block is cleaned. The so-called " forgotten plug" is located in the oil passage above the rear main cap. It blocks the passage between the oil filter passage and the rear main journal feed passage. If that plug is omitted, strange oil pressure readings will occur and possibly the loss of the front main bearing(s) which will be indicated by glitter in the oil.

2. Make sure the oil filter by-pass valve in the block above the oil filter is installed and staked.That by-pass valve is rated at 11 PSI opening pressure, part number GM 25014006 which is used w/o remote oil cooler. Use a by-pass valve rated at 21 PSI opening pressure, part number GM 25014612, w/oil cooler and remote oil filter (4WD) .

Problem: Using a 11 PSI by-pass in with a remote oil filter and oil cooler has caused front main bearing failures due to diminished oil flow. The flow is reduced because of the restriction in the extra plumbing used with a remote oil filter and oil coolers. That system requires by-pass valves with 21 PSI opening pressure, one in the block and one in the remote oil filter adapter located on the LF fender. . The by-pass valve pressure change was covered in a factory recall about 1988 for all 4WD T10 GMC/Chevrolets. Some engine builders think the oil by pass in the block is unimportant since the oil filter has one. . However, it is extremely important if you have a 2WD with a oil cooler, and is especially important if you have 4WD with a oil cooler and a remote oil filter.

Very interesting info, thanks. Also the part # for this plug kit is different than a SB Chev. The plug in question is smaller than a SB Chev. Sorry, don't have the #. Just make sure you specify 4.3 V6 and make sure they don't just give you the SB Chev part. Been there, done that.

 

[autoaddictions]

Re: Engine Bearings Gone

I am having a problem with my motor too but it is because the 4 bolt splayed caps were not origionally installed correct and had too much play, the registers were loose. main caps 1 and 2 showed bad bearings and everything else looked like new. My motor is getting fixed after only 1500 miles. my filter cut open looked like yours, the only way to tell is to take it apart.

Could of buffed that out!!!

 

[Big Mike]

Re: Engine Bearings Gone

Could of buffed that out!!!

Ya it would have been cheaper, I will remember that for next time.

 

[MoJo]

Re: Engine Bearings Gone

Very interesting info, thanks. Also the part # for this plug kit is different than a SB Chev. The plug in question is smaller than a SB Chev. Sorry, don't have the #. Just make sure you specify 4.3 V6 and make sure they don't just give you the SB Chev part. Been there, done that.

Check and verify the size of the expansion plug for a 4.3L V6. I cannot find that plug listed in my 1991 - 1993 4.3L V6 Illustrated Master Parts Catalog so it may have never been serviced. However, a SB Chevy V8 oil passage under the rear main cap is .563" OD which allows a .500" expansion plug to be lightly pushed into the passage to a depth of about .800". At that point the oil passage is counter bored to .494" OD above the lateral oil passage to the oil filter. At that point, the .500" OD expansion plug must be driven into the .494" OD oil passage with a hammer and punch until is is past the lateral oil passage to the oil filter or to a depth of 1.00" from the block to rear main cap mating surface.

Look carefully into the oil passage in the block above the main cap with a flash light and you will see a ridge in the passage. A.500" expansion plug will drop into the passage until it stops at that ridge. Then it must be driven in with a hammer and punch an additional .300" into the smaller oil passage where it is even with that ridge and the lateral passage to the oil filter is exposed.

The 4.3L V6 engines have unique oiling requirements because those engine do not have priority main oiling like a V8 engine. . .In 1992, GM went to a oil pump that uses a 3/4" oil pump pick up inlet tube in an attempt to increase the oil volume to the mains. This was after excessive warranty problems with front main bearing failures and especially in those engine with 4WD with a remote oil filter and oil cooler. GM avoided using true high volume oil pumps with a longer housing because of the problems with accelerated distributor gear wear and oil pan clearance. Since I increased the RPM potential of my T10 Blazer 4.3L LB4 engine with 4WD , I felt it needed more oil volume to compensate for the restrictions in the oil lines. To get more volume, I installed a Melling 10552 oil pump. I also used a Skip White distributor with a .500" ID, case hardened MSD marine certified distributor gear. The 4WD oil pump pick up tube had to be cut, shortened 1/2" and re-welded because a high volume oil pump gears, housing and thick bottom plate is .487" longer than a stock oil pump and therefore the pick up screen will hit the bottom of the oil pan. A HV oil pump pump screen needs 1/2" clearance from the bottom of the oil pan in order to permit the intake of a higher volume of oil and to prevent a vortex from forming under the screen which will cause a pressure drop.

 

[Don W.]

Re: Engine Bearings Gone

Don't know about the actual numbers but that's how it all works. Seems to me there are two shoulders, or steps in the passage. One where the plug "starts" and one where it "finishes." Could be wrong on that though.

 

[MoJo]

Re: Engine Bearings Gone

If your S-10 does not have a remote oil cooler and remote oil filter, I would be reluctant to use a Melling Select 10552 high volume oil pump. A new OEM or Melling M155 standard volume oil pump with a 3/4" pick up tube is adequate. However, if you have a T10 with 4WD, or if you have switched to solid motor mounts, a Melling Select 10552 high volume oil pump with a HD cast iron housing and stabilized spur gears is recommended.

The rough use that a T-10 with 4WD tham may be subject to or an engine with solid motor mounts can break the housing of a standard OEM or Melling M155 oil pump. Engine shake and the long pick up tube used in the 9-1/4" 4WD oil pan puts addition stress on the oil pump neck. I used a oil pick up support bracket that is only available from Jegs. It bolts to the bottom plate and pick up tube for more support and to dampen vibration.In addition to brazing the pick-up tube to the pump outlet port, I wire welded the bracket to the oil pump pick up tube instead of using the supplied bolt and then bolted the brace to the oil pump bottom plate. Do not use the Melling pick up tube that bolts to the oil pump housing. The little weld at the mounting plate on the pick up tube is not trustworthy.

I always thought that a oil pick up screen assembly in an oil pan that was deeper than 6" was too long until I acquired my 1991 T10 Blazer with 4WD. A 9" deep oil pan is a long way for an oil pump to pull oil so the oil pump must be up to the task.

 

[The Devils Own Chariot]

Re: Engine Bearings Gone

I am having a problem with my motor too but it is because the 4 bolt splayed caps were not origionally installed correct and had too much play, the registers were loose. main caps 1 and 2 showed bad bearings and everything else looked like new. My motor is getting fixed after only 1500 miles. my filter cut open looked like yours, the only way to tell is to take it apart.

Did you just replace the bearings? Did you need the crank reground. Did you take measures to flush the block and oil cooler system of the metal debris?

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Engine Bearings Gone

Did you tear it down yet?

 

[Big Mike]

Re: Engine Bearings Gone

Did you just replace the bearings? Did you need the crank reground. Did you take measures to flush the block and oil cooler system of the metal debris?

I took it to machine shop in pieces they washed block and internal parts out fixed caps, line bored, cleaned up cylinder walls,cut/polish crank, new bearings and rings and installed crank rods and pistons. I will be buying another new radiator and oil cooler lines when I really install motor. I picked up block last week and put heads timingcover,rear main seal,timing chain and gears on, and installed oil pan, I will be installing into truck today and will be finishing up after work this week and hope to have it running by next weekend. If you have too much metal you may need new lifters too I would not trust anything that had oil in it or on it everything needs to be clean.

Did you pull yours apart yet, any pics?

 

[Beavis]

Re: Engine Bearings Gone

Check and verify the size of the expansion plug for a 4.3L V6. I cannot find that plug listed in my 1991 - 1993 4.3L V6 Illustrated Master Parts Catalog so it may have never been serviced. However, a SB Chevy V8 oil passage under the rear main cap is .563" OD which allows a .500" expansion plug to be lightly pushed into the passage to a depth of about .800". At that point the oil passage is counter bored to .494" OD above the lateral oil passage to the oil filter. At that point, the .500" OD expansion plug must be driven into the .494" OD oil passage with a hammer and punch until is is past the lateral oil passage to the oil filter or to a depth of 1.00" from the block to rear main cap mating surface.

Look carefully into the oil passage in the block above the main cap with a flash light and you will see a ridge in the passage. A.500" expansion plug will drop into the passage until it stops at that ridge. Then it must be driven in with a hammer and punch an additional .300" into the smaller oil passage where it is even with that ridge and the lateral passage to the oil filter is exposed.

The 4.3L V6 engines have unique oiling requirements because those engine do not have priority main oiling like a V8 engine. . .In 1992, GM went to a oil pump that uses a 3/4" oil pump pick up inlet tube in an attempt to increase the oil volume to the mains. This was after excessive warranty problems with front main bearing failures and especially in those engine with 4WD with a remote oil filter and oil cooler. GM avoided using true high volume oil pumps with a longer housing because of the problems with accelerated distributor gear wear and oil pan clearance. Since I increased the RPM potential of my T10 Blazer 4.3L LB4 engine with 4WD , I felt it needed more oil volume to compensate for the restrictions in the oil lines. To get more volume, I installed a Melling 10552 oil pump. I also used a Skip White distributor with a .500" ID, case hardened MSD marine certified distributor gear. The 4WD oil pump pick up tube had to be cut, shortened 1/2" and re-welded because a high volume oil pump gears, housing and thick bottom plate is .487" longer than a stock oil pump and therefore the pick up screen will hit the bottom of the oil pan. A HV oil pump pump screen needs 1/2" clearance from the bottom of the oil pan in order to permit the intake of a higher volume of oil and to prevent a vortex from forming under the screen which will cause a pressure drop.

If your S-10 does not have a remote oil cooler and remote oil filter, I would be reluctant to use a Melling Select 10552 high volume oil pump. A new OEM or Melling M155 standard volume oil pump with a 3/4" pick up tube is adequate. However, if you have a T10 with 4WD, or if you have switched to solid motor mounts, a Melling Select 10552 high volume oil pump with a HD cast iron housing and stabilized spur gears is recommended.

The rough use that a T-10 with 4WD tham may be subject to or an engine with solid motor mounts can break the housing of a standard OEM or Melling M155 oil pump. Engine shake and the long pick up tube used in the 9-1/4" 4WD oil pan puts addition stress on the oil pump neck. I used a oil pick up support bracket that is only available from Jegs. It bolts to the bottom plate and pick up tube for more support and to dampen vibration.In addition to brazing the pick-up tube to the pump outlet port, I wire welded the bracket to the oil pump pick up tube instead of using the supplied bolt and then bolted the brace to the oil pump bottom plate. Do not use the Melling pick up tube that bolts to the oil pump housing. The little weld at the mounting plate on the pick up tube is not trustworthy.

I always thought that a oil pick up screen assembly in an oil pan that was deeper than 6" was too long until I acquired my 1991 T10 Blazer with 4WD. A 9" deep oil pan is a long way for an oil pump to pull oil so the oil pump must be up to the task.

Would you happen to have any pics of what/how you did this? Ithink I understand it but pics would be great.

 

[The Devils Own Chariot]

Re: Engine Bearings Gone

I did not. Hunting season is full throttle and we just had a baby. Maybe around the holidays I will have time to get it out.

 

[Don W.]

Re: Engine Bearings Gone

I just had a baby.

????? You did? Always brings a smile when this happens. Say hi and to mom and congrats to all!:tup:

Nothing like some fresh venison liver. Good luck with the hunting.

 

[MoJo]

Re: Engine Bearings Gone

Would you happen to have any pics of what/how you did this? Ithink I understand it but pics would be great.

Sorry no pics. I assume you mean how I redesigned the stock GM 12555117 oil pick up assembly to fit a Melling Select 10552 oil pump with a 3/4" inlet in a 4WD oil pan. . The Melling 259S or GM 12555117 pick up will fit 1988-1994 S10 Blazer 4WD oil pan but it will only fit a 1992-1994 stock 4.3L "W" engine oil pump, a Melling Select 10552 or Melling M155 oil pump. Those pumps have a 3/4" inlet.

Procedure: I used a scribe and put a line on the oil pick up tube on the straight section between the bends. That is for indexing the screen when the tube is welded back together. Cut the tube in half in the middle of the straight section. Cut or grind off 1/4" from each half of the tube. Wire weld the two halves back together using the scribe mark to index the screen as it was before.When complete, the screen was exactly .430" from the bottom of the pan with a Melling Select 10552 HV-standard pressure oil pump. You must use a Melling Select 10552 oil pump with this modification because they have a housing and spur gears that are .487" longer that a regular Melling M155 HV oil pump. Melling Select HV oil pumps have spur gears that are .300" longer. The bottom plate is .187" thicker than standard HV oil pumps because the spur gears are dowelled into the bottom plate for more stability.

I bought four different Milodon pick up screen assemblies in an attempt to find one that would fit the 9-1/4" oil pan with a Melling Select HV oil pump with a .487" longer housing. None fit within 3/8" to 1/2" from the bottom of the pan. It would be a crap shoot to find one that would fit. I briefly considered a KEVCO custom made pick up..Too crude, .no way. I called Melling and they could not help either.

At least use a Melling M155 oil pump with the appropriate pick up assembly (2WD or 4WD). However, if your 1988-1994 ST-10 has 4WD with remote oil filter and oil cooler, solid motor mounts, or you have modified the engine oiling system, such as grooving the upper main saddles in the block with 2 extra oil feed holes in the upper half of the main bearings, cross-drilled the crank, etc., a Melling Select 10552 oil pump for 10% higher volume is the best choice, but be aware of the pick up screen problem. Always replace the stock 11 PSI by-pass valve with a 21 PSI by-pass valve (GM 25014612) in the block above the oil filter. The by-pass valve change was covered in a GM 1992 Technical Service Bulletin. Use a all steel aftermarket oil pump drive shaft and a MSD (.500") or stock (.491") case hardened distributor gear. Don't worry about cam gear wear, because hydraulic roller camshafts are are selectively austempered ductile iron camshafts.