Another turbo question PICs ADDED

[Don W.]

I've been researching the turbo that I have on my truck. It seems to be a hybrid between a stock Sy turbine and a 60-1 Turbonetics compressor. (Bought from a member some years ago.) The trim on the turbine is 85 +/- (what's a stock SyTy?), WG is internal and ported. The trim on the compressor is 78.

Although motor is apart right now, so it could be changed, my current build is:

TurboTweak chip. (which is new and hasn't been "fine tuned" by Eric yet.)
3" DP, no cat (really a cat with no guts.)
Vortec heads
60# injectors
Alky inj. (Older Alkycontrol system)
Comp 412 cam
I beam rods
8.5-1 pistons .030 over
2800 stall converter
built tans

Before removal I was having some issues with boost control and occasional knock. Current controller is a simple manual type. The next thing I was gonna do is to connect my controller to a regulator and actually watch the operation of the WG to see if I'm getting full travel etc.

The heads are slightly ported (matched) with stock chambers. This time the chambers will be cleaned up as well. I'm also switching from pedestal, non adjustable, rockers to Crane self aligning. Cam may need to be changed as there is veeery slight brinelling on the exhaust rollers and lobes.

So THE question is: Is this turbo appropriate for this motor? My research seems to indicate that it is.

All that being said any comments? All are appreciated.

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Another turbo question

Re: Another turbo question

I've been researching the turbo that I have on my truck. It seems to be a hybrid between a stock Sy turbine and a 60-1 Turbonetics compressor. (Bought from a member some years ago.) The trim on the turbine is 85 +/- (what's a stock SyTy?), WG is internal and ported. The trim on the compressor is 78.

Before removal I was having some issues with boost control and occasional knock. Current controller is a simple manual type. The next thing I was gonna do is to connect my controller to a regulator and actually watch the operation of the WG to see if I'm getting full travel etc.

The heads are slightly ported (matched) with stock chambers. This time the chambers will be cleaned up as well. I'm also switching from pedestal, non adjustable, rockers to Crane self aligning. Cam may need to be changed as there is veeery slight brinelling on the exhaust rollers and lobes.

So THE question is: Is this turbo appropriate for this motor? My research seems to indicate that it is.

All that being said any comments? All are appreciated.

Do you have any pics or measurements of the turbine wheel & pics of turbo itself?

If the turbine wheel is stock sized Sy/Ty turbine wheel, then it is too small, exhaust can't breathe.

The trim on the turbine, you are asking the A/R on the turbine housing?.

Match porting does not do much to improve power.

You would need to port further into the intake ports & open up the port window,(allows more air into the engine) plus properly porting the short turn radius' (intake & exhaust) will improve power more so than match porting also.

If you can post some pics of the wastegate & valve & housing we could see if you could port a bit more in the correct areas, reshape etc.

Switching to an electronic boost controller will help w/boost control & be more consistent than a manual control valve.:2cents:

What are the specs on your current camshaft?

I would add some more compression & change your camshaft to that would compliment each other & give you more overall power & quicker spool-up. 9.0 - 9.3 compression ratio.

On the chambers, just clean up the sharp edges not to open up the chamber too much as to drop the compression.

 

[Don W.]

Re: Another turbo question

Re: Another turbo question

Do you have any pics or measurements of the turbine wheel & pics of turbo itself?

If the turbine wheel is stock sized Sy/Ty turbine wheel, then it is too small, exhaust can't breathe.

> I had wondered about that.

The trim on the turbine, you are asking the A/R on the turbine housing?

> No, the trim. I think the A/R is 60-1

Match porting does not do much to improve power.

You would need to port further into the intake ports & open up the port window,(allows more air into the engine) plus properly porting the short turn radius' (intake & exhaust) will improve power more so than match porting also.

> This will happen with my new machinist.

If you can post some pics of the wastegate & valve & housing we could see if you could port a bit more in the correct areas, reshape etc.

>will do.

Switching to an electronic boost controller will help w/boost control & be more consistent than a manual control valve.:2cents:

What are the specs on your current camshaft?

>Comp 412, I'll dredge up the card. I suspect it's to mild though.

I would add some more compression & change your camshaft to that would compliment each other & give you more overall power & quicker spool-up. 9.0 - 9.3 compression ratio.

On the chambers, just clean up the sharp edges not to open up the chamber too much as to drop the compression.

>Understand and agreed on the chambers.

 

[Icarus-54]

Re: Another turbo question

Re: Another turbo question

If its a street machine,I'd polish the exhaust side of the chamber and leave the intake side rough and polish the exhaust port.Dont open up the exhaust port very much as it will affect low end torque.

 

[Don W.]

Re: Another turbo question

Re: Another turbo question

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Another turbo question PICs ADDED

Thanks.
Can you measure the turbine wheel?
Also a pic of the waste gate flapper valve when it is open.

What is the P.N. on the turbine housing?

It looks like a stock 8 CM housing & a stock size Sy/Ty turbine wheel. If so, that is a big restriction & is really plugging up the exhaust flow, not to mention your really hurting your potential HP output of your engine.

If, your are going to reuse that turbocharger, I would @ least get the turbine wheel clipped to the maximum.

http://timsturbos.com/servicesrebulding/rebuilding-up-grades/turbine-wheel-clipping

Better thing to do would use a larger turbine wheel if it is not the TD06H turbine wheel, & to get a larger turbine housing. I like the way my 12 CM housing works, though they seem to be hard to get.

 

[Don W.]

Re: Another turbo question PICs ADDED

The turbine is 2.6 X 2.178 (from previous notes) I'll get the Part # and a pic of the open WG tomorrow. I've often wondered the same about the restriction. The question will be how do I fix it without spending a pile of cash?

FWIW compressor wheel is 3.0 X 2.36

And the A/R of the compressor is .70

Thanks

 

[Don W.]

Re: Another turbo question PICs ADDED

Here's a pic of the WG wide open. Bear i mind that this the free position. WG controller is not attached. I'll have that pic tomorrow. Casting number is 79-12100

Thanks

 

[Darin]

Re: Another turbo question PICs ADDED

Don,

I have a 14cm TD06H turbine off a 20G if you want it. You could buy a TD06H turbine wheel and build it up. It's very easy to do, all you need is a small set of snap ring pliers if it's a Mitsubishi center section, I haven't taken apart a Garrett one yet.

You could also call Forced Performance and see what they have if you wish to pursue something like that.

 

[Syty84]

Re: Another turbo question PICs ADDED

Don, on my Sy I have the same build as you just different cam, same compressor side on the turbo but I have the 14cm TD06H turbine, with a 3000 stall, 3 in DP, works perfect, pulls hard, I'm getting it dynoed in the next 2 weeks, I'm gonna post numbers, you have the stock exhaust housing its seriously robbing you of power,

you have:
non H turbine(stock) 8cm: 79-12100

you need one of the following:
H turbine 12cm: 79-11300
H turbine 14cm: 79-14300

In my Ty I used the stock turbo with an upgraded wheel and 8cm stock exhaust housing, stock downpipe, if I would have upgraded it to a 10 or 12 I would of picked up some power, especially if your running the 60-1 you'll definitely pick up good numbers.

http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=84885

Also I would send your turbo off to these guys I can vouch for them they do the best work I've seen yet, little pricey but well worth the quality. http://www.compturbo.com/

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Another turbo question PICs ADDED

I would like to use one of these turbine wheels, one less blade should flow better than a standard TD06H wheel.

You could buy one of these & have your turbine housing machined to fit this wheel or get a 14 CM housing & the wheel I mentioned.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181141462451?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

 

[Don W.]

Re: Another turbo question PICs ADDED

Today I rigged up a test setup for the WG. Sad to say it doesn't work as I though it should. 20# of air barely open the WG, 30# opens it a bit more. This is an actuator that I bought a few years ago because the stock one won't attach to this turbo. If I hang the stock actuator on the WG and apply pressure it works as I think it should. Meaning it opens much more than the setup I had. I can take pick if you want (easy) I was just so irritated with what I found I forgot.:rant:

I've PM'd Darin about a H housing he has. I really appreciate the help here guys.:tup:

 

[Darin]

Re: Another turbo question PICs ADDED

Don, that is the turbine wheel that I would suggest using. Lighter and better aero (swoopy sort of vanes).

When swapping out the turbine wheel/shaft, I would suggest redoing the bearings at a minimum in there as well. New shaft may as well get new bearings, and to replace the seals isn't too much work.

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Another turbo question PICs ADDED

Here's a pic of the WG wide open. Bear i mind that this the free position. WG controller is not attached. I'll have that pic tomorrow. Casting number is 79-12100

Thanks

If you are having a boost control issues, it appears that you could open up the wastegate hole to allow more exhaust flow.

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Another turbo question PICs ADDED

Hey Don,
just wondering what parts you are going to get?

I would say if you get that that 14 CM turbine housing, If so, this turbine wheel will work.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&vxp=mtr&item=380660325377

Your 2800 stall should work just fine w/the 14 CM housing.

Keep us posted.

 

[qbnkiller]

Re: Another turbo question PICs ADDED

I would NOT trust a no-name Chinese copy of a MHI turbine wheel. If it fails and send debris through your engine, was it worth the savings? I know they are SUPPOSED to be pre-balanced, but once that wheel ships I am sure they could care less.

IMHO, I would either look at a genuine turbine wheel and rebuild kit, or a new replacement turbo.

Good luck whichever way you go Don!

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Another turbo question PICs ADDED

I would NOT trust a no-name Chinese copy of a MHI turbine wheel. If it fails and send debris through your engine, was it worth the savings? I know they are SUPPOSED to be pre-balanced, but once that wheel ships I am sure they could care less.

IMHO, I would either look at a genuine turbine wheel and rebuild kit, or a new replacement turbo.

Good luck whichever way you go Don!

The problem is, nobody I know of is making a 11 bladed "H" wheel.
There used to be a few on E-bay that were modding a 11 bladed Garrett turbine wheel made to fit a 20G turbo, don't see them anymore & did not find out who was making them, I should have bought one.:rant::rant:

Don could always just bolt in a factory Mitsubishi 12 bladed turbine blade, but for me I would like to take any advantage I could get.

Don could also just send his turbo to Forced Performance ( http://www.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/ ) & have them make his turbo really trick & flow like crazy, but,,, it's gonna cost him. :2cents:

The E-bay seller has 17482 sales & 99% positive feedback, pretty good I would think, no?

 

[qbnkiller]

Re: Another turbo question PICs ADDED

The problem is, nobody I know of is making a 11 bladed "H" wheel.
There used to be a few on E-bay that were modding a 11 bladed Garrett turbine wheel made to fit a 20G turbo, don't see them anymore & did not find out who was making them, I should have bought one.:rant::rant:

Don could always just bolt in a factory Mitsubishi 12 bladed turbine blade, but for me I would like to take any advantage I could get.

Don could also just send his turbo to Forced Performance ( http://www.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/ ) & have them make his turbo really trick & flow like crazy, but,,, it's gonna cost him. :2cents:

The E-bay seller has 17482 sales & 99% positive feedback, pretty good I would think, no?

Listen 6, I am a firm believer in saving money where its smart. I, personally, would not trust a Chinese copy (11 bladed TW at that) in my engine. Turbine wheels are subjected to very high heat and high shaft rpm. Have you ever seen a TW come apart?

Let me change the argument a little. Most of society has accepted Chinese-manufactured goods in their everyday life. We cannot spit without hitting something Chinese. We have also become complacent in terms of quality. "good enough for what we paid". Do you trust that the vendor used quality virgin material? Did they properly fuse weld the wheel to the shaft? Properly balance the assembly?

Companies such as Precision have partnered with a Chinese manufacturing firm to meet their requirements. That also means Precision is on the hook in the event of a failure. What about Kungawa?

Look, Don can and will do what he wants. I am only offering my opinion based on what I know and have seen. I could give a shit less if that ebay seller has a million positive feedbacks. I have seen a turbine wheel failuree first-hand (not my own). I have seen when the turbine housing failed to contain. I have seen the carnage when that shit comes flying out the downpipe at over 140,000rpm. There are things you can shave a few bucks on, something like that I would highly recommend against.

Good luck Don...

 

[Don W.]

Re: Another turbo question PICs ADDED

Hi guys. Interesting feedback. I have no desire to make folks mad but on the other hand I've always appreciated everyone's feedback. I have the wheel. It's gonna end up in a revised turbo. If it works great. If it blows up I'll let you know that also.

Side bar. Years ago I had the compressor side of a Cummins turbo let go and go through a motor I had just rebuilt. Believe it or not the motor missed a few licks and kept on running. It was the very first "test run" if the motor so I assume something inside the turbo was unhappy. A replacement was installed and that motor ran for years after that. Lucky I guess. That turbo was sure ugly though

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Another turbo question PICs ADDED

Listen qbnkiller,

the TW that you seen blown apart, were they Chinese, or were they high quality US made TW's Or Japanese? or?

I am not saying to save a buck, I am looking at it as a possible performance gain. Nobody offers an 11 bladed turbine wheel from Mitsubishi, not that I know of. Do you?

Let me ask you this, do you buy Chinese stuff, or are you a person that refuses to buy Chinese stuff, there are those people out there that will only buy US made products, even though, that is hard to do.

The only things I have heard bad about those cheap Ebay turbos is that the compressor housing have split in half @ the parting line because they were glued together,, have not seen this first hand, ,just heard through the grapevine..

For my good builds I do not plan on buying a cheap E-bay turbo. I have picked out & recommended cheap E-bay turbos to other people on other forums for those who want to get into turbocharging & do not have a lot of money & have had good success w/those turbos.

Magazines are testing those cheap Ebay turbos on cheap engine builds & have made a lot of power w/them.

After they done there dyno runs they later have installed better quality brand name turbos & have made more power. But what would you expect, a 250 dollar turbo vs a 1800 dollar turbo? Not a good comparison, the turbos were not exactly the same to each other either.

Don,
I am not angry w/qbnkiller.
I am just stating some info I have tried to research for a possible better flowing turbine wheel.
I am not saying that was your only option, just the only low dollar & possibly better flowing turbine wheel option that I have found, I have no first hand experience w/there turbos or parts.

Don,
you bought that turbine wheel on Ebay & it's in your hands?

Hope it works out for you & if you could, take some pics of it.

Also, are you going w/a 14 CM turbine housing?

You running methanol should keep your turbine wheel temps down for sure.

Hope it all works out for you.

Rick