80e Tuning - Need some help

[mrweelr]

So I finally got my truck running strong with this new motor and lovin' the Prime Gears 80e, but need to fix the following issues:

1. TCC lockup at part throttle cruise is very hard. I'd like to soften this up. Is it the TCC Lockup Rate (% per second) I need to lower to adjust this? I only want to soften it at cruise, not WOT.

2. If I punch it going ~35mph, it sometimes downshifts into 1st and then revs to the limiter and won't upshift until I let off and get back into it. I think the 2-1 downshift table or 2-1 WOT downshift MPH may need to be tweaked.

Below is a pic of the starter calibration George sent me with the 80e. The only thing I've messed with since installing the trans is to lower the WOT shift RPMs slightly and raise the part-throttle TCC lockup mph to 50. Let me know if anything stands out or looks incorrect.

Thanks

 

[MRKING]

Re: 80e Tuning - Need some help

Jeremy have you taken 2nd gear past 54 mph ? or do you let off before then ? also the wot shifts should be a little lower than what you want to shift at , like your 5900 wot from 2nd is going to shift at 6k or a little over . What is your revlimiter set at ?

 

[mrweelr]

Re: 80e Tuning - Need some help

Yeah, it downshifts into 1st and then winds out and won't grab 2nd. Then I let off and get back into it and it will upshift. I believe Nolan set the rev limiter to at least 6350 because with my old 700R4, it was WOT upshifting there RPM when I was messing with governor weights and springs.

After reading more of the TCU Operation Manual, I suspect I need to lower those "WOT Downshift MPH" values since the 1-2 and 2-3 WOT upshifts occur right around those same values in the upshift/downshift tables. I really don't want the truck WOT downshifting into 1st at unless I'm going slower than 25mph or so. Hoping someone else with a built motor can post up their TCI calibration values for comparison purposes.

 

[Try Me]

Re: 80e Tuning - Need some help

TCI told me when i first set mine up that you can not set all of the WOT upshift rpms to the same value or it will cause problems. Make them at least slightly different, 50rpm is enough but they can not be the same.

 

[skwayb]

Re: 80e Tuning - Need some help

Save your current calibration as a seperate file. Then run the wizard and let it create a new calibration and upload it to the TCU. See if you like the new settings for TCC lockup and shift points. Then you can update your inital Calibration TCC Lockup to make match the one the wizard made.

Your problem with the Shift Bouncing off the REV limiter when you smash the trottle is you are going in to the WOT shift setting RPM of 5900. It doesn't even look at the shift points. 5900 RPM in the WOT setting is the RPM is will start the WOT shift at. Not the RPM it will complete the WOT shift at. So if you are wanting it to shift at 5900, you need to lower your WOT shift at 5400-5500 so it will complete by 5900. So you probably are hitting 6400 before the shift is done and bouncing off the rev limiter in on your chip and not completing the shift. I would check the WOT and REV Limit setting in your chip to see if that is what is occuring.

 

[skwayb]

Re: 80e Tuning - Need some help

Any way you can send me the calibration so I can look at it in the PCS editor. Also anyway you can put up the graph for load vs line pressure %?

 

[mrweelr]

Re: 80e Tuning - Need some help

Thanks for the pointers guys. Sounds like I need to lower the WOT upshift RPMs and stagger them some? Here is the calibration file: http://mrweelr.com/SyTemp/80eCalibration.zip

And the rest of the tables:

Let me know what you think

 

[skwayb]

Re: 80e Tuning - Need some help

So I finally got my truck running strong with this new motor and lovin' the Prime Gears 80e, but need to fix the following issues:

1. TCC lockup at part throttle cruise is very hard. I'd like to soften this up. Is it the TCC Lockup Rate (% per second) I need to lower to adjust this? I only want to soften it at cruise, not WOT.

2. If I punch it going ~35mph, it sometimes downshifts into 1st and then revs to the limiter and won't upshift until I let off and get back into it. I think the 2-1 downshift table or 2-1 WOT downshift MPH may need to be tweaked.

I changed my settings to match yours except for the Line vs load pressure % since I switched mine to MAP based vs your TPS based.

1). That TCC Lockup is pretty violent. I think you need to change your settings in the 0, 7, 13 and maybe even the 20% TPS range. You sure you want to lock it up at 0% tps at 50 MPH? I put my TCC Pressure Control Settings in there which aren't as agressive as this one and it still was pretty hard. I think it is locking too soon at too low of TPS might be the cause. I will play with it some tonight on the way home.

2) You might want to lower the WOT MPH settings so it won't drop all the way down to first. 45 MPH might be a little high. It will let it drop down to first at 45 MPH. Try adjusting it to 33-35 MPH for 2nd Gear WOT. I would look at the 3rd and 4th and possibley lower those too. Maybe 3rd at 55-60mph and 4th to 65-75 mph. Just have to play with them. You might not want 4th to drop to 3rd and then 2nd since you are already having the downshift unlock the TCC which is like adding a gear. I know George wanted it to do that 2 gear downshift but it might be too much for your setup. Might have to play with the MPH settings so when you stomp it, it shifts how you like it.

Just some thoughts. I will try your config and see if I can come up with some less aggressive lockup settings.

 

[mrweelr]

Re: 80e Tuning - Need some help

Yeah, I want the TCC to lock at 50mph regardless of TPS position. It keeps the RPMs down while cruising, reduces heat/slippage and improves mileage. Isn't it the TCC Pressure Control what determines how hard the converter clutch locks?

Those are good suggestions regarding the WOT MPH values. Nolan told me to do some WOT pulls and send him the TCI logs. I'll take a few runs in Datamaster and TCI this weekend and have him look them over. I'll post updates as changes are made to see what works. Want this thing shifting right and boosting 20psi with more timing by next month so I can put down some solid numbers at the track.

I changed my settings to match yours except for the Line vs load pressure % since I switched mine to MAP based vs your TPS based.

1). That TCC Lockup is pretty violent. I think you need to change your settings in the 0, 7, 13 and maybe even the 20% TPS range. You sure you want to lock it up at 0% tps at 50 MPH? I put my TCC Pressure Control Settings in there which aren't as agressive as this one and it still was pretty hard. I think it is locking too soon at too low of TPS might be the cause. I will play with it some tonight on the way home.

2) You might want to lower the WOT MPH settings so it won't drop all the way down to first. 45 MPH might be a little high. It will let it drop down to first at 45 MPH. Try adjusting it to 33-35 MPH for 2nd Gear WOT. I would look at the 3rd and 4th and possibley lower those too. Maybe 3rd at 55-60mph and 4th to 65-75 mph. Just have to play with them. You might not want 4th to drop to 3rd and then 2nd since you are already having the downshift unlock the TCC which is like adding a gear. I know George wanted it to do that 2 gear downshift but it might be too much for your setup. Might have to play with the MPH settings so when you stomp it, it shifts how you like it.

Just some thoughts. I will try your config and see if I can come up with some less aggressive lockup settings.

 

[mrweelr]

Re: 80e Tuning - Need some help

Today I did some 0-120mph pulls and datalogged with Datamaster and TCI. The 1-2 WOT shift is occurring at 6250 at 51mph, the 2-3 at 6225 at 83mph, and 3rd winds out to 120mph since I didn't hit 133mph before letting off. Peak boost on the Blitz gauge indicated 17.5psi and I was getting up to 10 degrees of KR (damn). No idea why it's knocking since I have been running straight 100 unleaded for a while now.

I did change the WOT downshift MPH values for 2nd to 30mph and 3rd to 60mph. The truck is not downshifting at 40mph and bouncing off the limiter now I also lowered the TCC lockup rate value to 38, but it still locks pretty hard at 50mph while cruising. I'm pretty sure the TCC Lockup/Unlock table isn't setup right. If you look at the WOT pull, you will see there is 15-10% TCU Torque Converter Slip through a good portion of the run. Do I need to adjust the TCC pressure control values to fix this?

Here are the Datamaster and TCI logs:

http://mrweelr.com/SyTemp/DM_Log_080809_100_no_meth.zip
http://mrweelr.com/SyTemp/TCU_Logs_080809_1.zip

And the TCI calibration file:

http://mrweelr.com/SyTemp/80e_Calibration.zip

 

[mrweelr]

Re: 80e Tuning - Need some help

No suggestions? I guess no one else has an 80e with a TCI controller. Ah well

 

[skwayb]

Re: 80e Tuning - Need some help

Sorry was at NATs and never saw this post. You need to also change your WOT Shift RPMS. They all can't be 5900. They should be 50 apart otherwise I have read it can get confused.

Anyway you can post Blakes original TCU file so I can look at those MPH TCC lockup settings on it? I am still thinking the 50 MPH at 0% TPS is too early to lock it so that is why it is making it so hard. Let me see if I can work on this some this weekend and make it so that TCC lockup isn't so crazy.

 

[sy2675]

Re: 80e Tuning - Need some help

i am not 80e expert or know much about them at all, but if you ahve the tcc lockup at 0% tps at any speed woouldnt that make the tranny act like a brake?

If you are not on the throttle why would you want the tcc locked up? my old diesel truck had a kit on it that did this exact thing, but it was for heavy load brake assist.

just curious!

 

[skwayb]

Re: 80e Tuning - Need some help

If you look at the WOT pull, you will see there is 15-10% TCU Torque Converter Slip through a good portion of the run. Do I need to adjust the TCC pressure control values to fix this?

Looking at your TCU file, it looks like MAP isn't wired up to your TCI unit and it was mainly setup to operate off TPS%. So it is hard to tell when you are getting your torque without the MAP wired into it. So you probably need to play with the Load vs Line Pressure% settings and decrease the numbers as you get more TPS. That will apply more Pressure. Look at what TPS% your at when you are getting around 5psi boost and then make all those Line Pressure Numbers 0 at that TPS and above. That way you are getting full pressure when you are in boost. Currently at 67-73% is when your trans is getting full pressure.

I have the PCS unit (which your TCI is just a rebranded PCS), I have MAP also wired into my TCU. Since I have a stock engine, I switch my setup from TPS based to MAP based for the load vs line pressure%. Then at 0 psi and above I had it apply full pressure once I got into boost. Figured I would be more often in the torque at different TPS% so I wanted more pressue when i got into boost. Not sure if that is right or not but make sense to me.

Now on the TCI. I am not sure if the wire harness they provide even has MAP being hooked up to it and if their version of the software even can do MAP based pressure. I am going to have to look at the instructions, harness and software. Not sure if you want to go this route with the MAP based line pressure but you definitely want to check your line pressure settings to make sure enough is being applied when you are in the torque.

We'll figure it out. Just have to play with it some and read the instructions that describe how it all works.

 

[skwayb]

Re: 80e Tuning - Need some help

Yah I just downloaded and installed the TCI Software and there is no MAP input. It is there but gives you an error that the input is not defined and I couldn't find a way to define it. They also talk about it in the online manual. But we should be able to get the TPS workign correctly for you. I wouldn't monkey around with the MAP stuff like I suggested. Think it would be a waste of your time.

So I would play with the line pressure settings like I in a lower TPS range. Make them go to 0 sooner so you get more pressure when in boost. Also you might want to lower the other numbers at lower tps% to get more pressure applied. See if that helps the slipping you saw in the log.

 

[mrweelr]

Re: 80e Tuning - Need some help

Thanks for the suggestions guys. You're right - I'm not using MAP signal to the TCU, just TPS. I would try adjusting the Load vs. Line Pressure and TCC Pressure Control values, but I don't want to smoke a $10K tranny. At least I got the WOT downshift issue fixed, but I still want to get the TCC WOT slip and part throttle lockup issues sorted out. If anyone wants to post up or send me their TCU table values, it would be helpful. I need something to use as a reference other than the help file's stock engine settings.

 

[skwayb]

Re: 80e Tuning - Need some help

If you increase the line pressue sooner (put lower numbers in the table) it won't hurt the trans. If you don't put enough pressure you can hurt the trans. Now if you ran full pressure all the time I could see you hurting the trans. So I would just lower the number s a little bit sooner and that should help the slipping.

Ok I changed my Lockup MPH settings to ones that the PCS wizard made along with the New TCC Pressure settings you listed and it fixed that hard lock up. I merged your settings with the new PCS settings for the Lockup and it fixed the hard lockup. Take the settings from B and merg them into your settings for lockup. Yah you look a little bit later MPH wise but it isn't as hard now. I have the final settings on my laptop at work so I can post them later if you need but all I did was take lower images values and put them in yours until they go close to each other and then I started to use your MPH settings to get rid of that 255 MPH settings. Came up with a much nicer curve and the harsh lock up was gone.

 

[mrweelr]

Re: 80e Tuning - Need some help

Thanks for the the help Paul. Could you also post screenshots of your Load vs. Line Pressure and TCC Pressure Control tables? What's the point of having a 140MPH+ TCC Lockup? The 255MPH value doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[skwayb]

Re: 80e Tuning - Need some help

Thanks for the the help Paul. Could you also post screenshots of your Load vs. Line Pressure and TCC Pressure Control tables? What's the point of having a 140MPH+ TCC Lockup? The 255MPH value doesn't make any sense to me.

Well not sure if my load vs line pressure will help you since mine is MAP based and not TPS. But here are my settings.