4.3 vs LS Reliability

[NOJIMMY]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

So much doom and gloom in this thread...its not like anyone's dying with either motor! :rant:

Someone needs to drive to Oklahoma and beat the Farm Truck!
(However the member's vehicle must reliably make it there and back, so I nominate Danimal95 truck!) :rotf:

-Sorry, couldn't resist the humor.
Larry (and Claire) Brown
LS7 NoJimmy Typhoon

 

[Maxtor]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

Forgot to add... Hundreds of spirted outings in my truck over the past 11 years of ownership and the short block/tranny (700r4) have never been pulled. Not a DD for sure but more reliable than I ever expected especially if you listen to some of the commentary on this BB.

 

[Norm]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

I wonder if the same discussions took place back in the 80s regarding BBC and SBC into everything.

To each his own.

In the 80's it was more like what no big/small block? Just another v 6 or inline 4 kind of thing.

 

[Throws]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

Forgot to add... Hundreds of spirted outings in my truck over the past 11 years of ownership and the short block/tranny (700r4) have never been pulled. Not a DD for sure but more reliable than I ever expected especially if you listen to some of the commentary on this BB.

OK.. Stock trans? Stock short block? and low 10s?

Damn. Tips?

-P

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

For all the talk about LSx swaps, there sure isn't all that many running ones. Are there even ten of them running yet? I seen a lot of people or post or tell they are doing them. When was the first LSx swap finished 5-6 years ago. You would think there would be atleast one Syclone by now that would be knocking on Robert's doorstep...

 

[Black Knight]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

I personally am excited about the new LS based 4.3. I won't have time to even consider a swap for a 5-6 years, so by then they should be reasonably available in junkyards. Does this destroy the heritage of the vehicle? Does this make me any less of a man?

Not at all. I'll build it how I want. I don't care. I have the most respect for the people that appreciate ANY sort of hard work work put into anything, whether it's their cup of tea or not.

The new V6 will be based off the new LT1 platform, not the LS, just FYI.

 

[e95 Ty]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

I think with the modded v6, the reliability has a lot to do with the engine builder and tuner. I love the LSx engines, I just wanted to build a stock block v6 because that's what I wanted in my Ty at the time and I'm happy with my decision. As far as reliability goes, I drive my Ty on a fairly regular basis. I have driven it to the NASTE meet in NJ from Boston, sat in traffic with it on the GW bridge for hrs, ended up being a 700mi round trip when all was said and done. I drive it to and from my local dragway (about 60mi each way) and have had 0 issues.

Frank (autoaddictions) I believe had hundreds of 10 and 11sec passes on his v6 before it gave up. I'm sure there are many more. So there are some reliable fast v6s out there. Again I have no issues either way, I guess its up to the owner....I was told however I could have built a 1000+hp LS for what I spent on a 700+hp v6 so I'm sure that could change some minds.....

 

[Maxtor]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

OK.. Stock trans? Stock short block? and low 10s?

Damn. Tips?

-P

Where did I say stock? It was a "4.3 vs LS" discussion.

 

[Throws]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

Where did I say stock? It was a "4.3 vs LS" discussion.

Sorry. You mentioned "have never been pulled" I assumed you were going 10s (somehow) on stock internals.

Regardless... I'm a fan of the 4.3.

-P

 

[Maxtor]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

Sorry. You mentioned "have never been pulled" I assumed you were going 10s (somehow) on stock internals.

Regardless... I'm a fan of the 4.3.

-P

I said the short block and tranny haven't been pulled in the past 11 years which is true. A very good built 4.3 goes a long way if properly maintained AND it is operated around 60-70% of its potential (swag, but you get the point). For that matter, the stock motor trucks go a long way with the same statement. I have had to slap my own hand several times to keep from pulling the engine "just because" to freshen it up. If the heads hadn't been done by a POS vendor they would have never had to be pulled either. Compression is as good as it was 10 years ago, no smoke, runs stronger than it did 10 years ago..

Granted, the build cost of my engine is just not feasible for many and the LSx is a much better direction.... but like I said I love my 4.3 turbo v6 and I'm hooked .

 

[SloGN]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

John,

Very well said. I quoted a portion of what you said because that still holds true today. Unfortunately Ford is the one trying to capitalize on it with their EcoTec engines. Although they are not going for ultimately performance, they are going to "enough" performance to keep up with the current V8 in their class and attempting to get better MPG's. It seems that is coming up short with the numbers of GMs new 5.3L V8 getting better mileage.

But not to get too far off topic, my point is I'm curious to see how long the EcoTec thing lasts with Ford. I know a handful of people who have the Explorer's and the Taurus' with those engines and they ALL bought them to have power AND mileage..... well they don't complain about the power, but the mileage is not as claimed, so they are not happy with the cars as a whole.

Will Ford go back to developing a better V8? It's got to be cheaper than the turbo V6 to manufacture, only time will tell...... the same thing kinda happened with many SyTy owners. How much time and money can someone dump into an outdated 4.3L. Heck, our engines were outdated in 1993 compared to the Turbo Buick guys.

I've been a member here for 13 years, I haven't had the same big HP goals as a lot of members here, I've always enjoyed the unique history aspect of these trucks a little more, but when it comes down to it, after seeing many of the big guns go through $2500 crankshafts and rods and blocks and etc., it pains me to even think about going that route.

When you can get an iron LS block for practically nothing, buy a steel crank for $850 (many say you dont even need it) and toss in some pistons and a cam and make more power for less than half the cost.... well, who can blame them.

For me personally, my truck has been through hell, twice. Its not a clean title truck, even fully restored it would never be worth its true value, so I really have no reason not to do the swap. If I owned a nice clean unmolested SyTy, there is now way I'd even think about it.

At this point, there are far more rough, beat up, ran into the ground trucks out there than nice, clean ones (or so it seems), so I predict the popularity of the swaps will continue, especially with new owners coming in all the time.

Now, I do have plans to buy and restore another Typhoon so I have a nice original and a nice race truck and Ill have the best of both worlds.

When all is said and done, those who are left with the V6 AWD trucks will probably have something more valuable than those with the V8's, no matter how fast or how much money goes into them.

The Reason i dig the SyTy's is because of the V6 turbo wonder. I do however understand the quest for more power with the increased life of the engine. simply put 8 is better than 6 and 10 is better than 8.

You mentioned that the turbo buick guys had more than the syty guys in 1993 hah! The GM long block was discontinued in like 91......

BTW the buick V6 was designed in the late 59-60 for the 61 buick special...........



Tuning can make all the difference in the world.... The buicks are way faster than in the 90's with alot less parts breakage!

I think the same thing is true for the SyTy's.... the velosyty chip is one hell of a start towards that. unless you have a aftermarket ECM. or burn your own chips and understand all the GM chip garbage.........

I do understand that there simply aint enough of us like the buicks so the progress is gonna be slower.but it can happen

 

[Captain Morgan]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

You mentioned that the turbo buick guys had more than the syty guys in 1993 hah! The GM long block was discontinued in like 91......

BTW the buick V6 was designed in the late 59-60 for the 61 buick special...........

My point was the electronics and everything that runs the damn engine were far better than the shit used in the SyTys. I dont really see what the discontinuation of a long block has anything to do with anything. As a whole, the Buick package was far better than the SyTy package.

I also dont see what the basic engine design has to do with anything significant either. The 4.3L is just based off the 1st Gen SBC which was what... 1955???? Not to split hairs, but neither the 3.8L or 4.3L was a major breakthrough in terms of internal combustion engine design.

 

[SloGN]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

My point was the electronics and everything that runs the damn engine were far better than the shit used in the SyTys. I dont really see what the discontinuation of a long block has anything to do with anything. As a whole, the Buick package was far better than the SyTy package.

I also dont see what the basic engine design has to do with anything significant either. The 4.3L is just based off the 1st Gen SBC which was what... 1955???? Not to split hairs, but neither the 3.8L or 4.3L was a major breakthrough in terms of internal combustion engine design.

No i think your missing the point. The Buick peeps are still using the stock ecm and making tons of power for a very long time. It just takes time to understand how to tune using the technology thats there.

The syty's got a much faster ecm and more chip space.

BTW the 4.3 is not the same as a SBC. since when did a SBC have split pin cranks?

Can you go buy a new block for a buick no. The bowtie block is still around correct?

Buick blocks have long been gone. Beside that hell they are much weaker than the chevy.

You simply stated that the buick guys were much better off than the syty guys. . you may be right in the aspect of there is more of them out there and so there is more people finding the limits and over coming them,

But on a hardware perspective no, like i mentioned before there you can still buy a block,. factory alum heads from a later engine bolts on and makes great power.
( mod the intake tho) the other common parts for a SBC are cheap.

The best atvantage a buick has is the 4 bolts oer cylinder on the head. So a tuning mishaps kill the head gaskets as the 5 bolts per cylinder keeps the knock in and kill bottom end stuff. But it all comes down to tune tune tune, help any engine with die extremely quick with a shitty tune.



Sorry to get off topic here.


But the point of the matter here is there is more on the table for more power along with reliablity. its only took the buick guys since 87.



LS is kewl and all that stuff. But whats the real cost of doing a bolt in swap for the average guy that don't have tools to fab up those exhaust manifolds or that I/c piping. or what ever you may need that can't be bought from a speed shop.


I think dollar for dollar one really needs to ask himself what kinda of power is the goal. I think that if your reaching past 500 HP it might be worth spending the money to do it . If less than that stick with what is there and just use good parts.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

i guess we're missing both our points. Its a moot point, both the 3.8 and 4.3 are dinosaurs.

 

[SloGN]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

i guess we're missing both our points. Its a moot point, both the 3.8 and 4.3 are dinosaurs.

x2

 

[MIXEDBREED]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

So much doom and gloom in this thread...its not like anyone's dying with either motor! :rant:

Someone needs to drive to Oklahoma and beat the Farm Truck!
(However the member's vehicle must reliably make it there and back, so I nominate Danimal95 truck!) :rotf:

-Sorry, couldn't resist the humor.
Larry (and Claire) Brown
LS7 NoJimmy Typhoon

LOL There are plenty of guys in okc with street cars that outrun farmtruck. My gto was one of them for years. But not everyone goes out every weekend to street race, some of us have more important shit to do lol. The list doesn't really show all the fastest cars in oklahoma but it does give a good idea seeing that the last car on the list runs high 9's or 10.0's and that the slowest one by far. A few of those guys run in the 7's.

 

[danimal95]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

LOL There are plenty of guys in okc with street cars that outrun farmtruck. My gto was one of them for years. But not everyone goes out every weekend to street race, some of us have more important shit to do lol. The list doesn't really show all the fastest cars in oklahoma but it does give a good idea seeing that the last car on the list runs high 9's or 10.0's and that the slowest one by far. A few of those guys run in the 7's.

I think the Farm truck is pretty cool,i have an exact same year and color blazer,soft spot for 1st gens...I would'nt mind making the drive as long as when the race is over I can bitch slap his side kick Azn,most annoying guy I have ever seen:tdown:

 

[MIXEDBREED]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

I think the Farm truck is pretty cool,i have an exact same year and color blazer,soft spot for 1st gens...I would'nt mind making the drive as long as when the race is over I can bitch slap his side kick Azn,most annoying guy I have ever seen:tdown:

Sean is a really nice guy, when I first meet him years ago he didn't have AZn riding with him back then. It was just him and his dog. Although many cars are faster on the track farm truck hooks up very well on the street and is why alot of faster cars get beat by him all the time. But 10.0' these days is not that fast anymore, But that truck does run very well esp on the 1/8 which what most the races are run around here. Hes 60ft is what gets it done most the time.

 

[danimal95]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

Sean is a really nice guy, when I first meet him years ago he didn't have AZn riding with him back then. It was just him and his dog. Although many cars are faster on the track farm truck hooks up very well on the street and is why alot of faster cars get beat by him all the time. But 10.0' these days is not that fast anymore, But that truck does run very well esp on the 1/8 which what most the races are run around here. Hes 60ft is what gets it done most the time.

He seems pretty cool,Ive followed that truck for years....It certainly appears to 60' like a mofo,and Im guessing like you said that is where a lot of his races are won,especially running 1/8th mile

 

[Suny]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

As others have mentioned here when the stock 4.3 goes then so does the trans, im also going to put in an LS for a bit, until there are new 4.3 LT engines in the bone yards. I would like to keep my truck with a 6 but with a skimpy 2 bolt cap and lots of work to be done for a strong bottom end, id rather take the paved road for now and get a used LS with 6 bolt mains and caps.