Stock Motor and New Turbo Are Both Gone - Need Some Advice

[mrweelr]

Well, I just put this new Turbonetics 60-1 BB turbo on my stock motor because the last one had a broken turbine blade - now I know why...the motor chucked metal into it. So I have two blown turbos now and a 78K motor that still runs fine, but there's no way I'm destroying another new turbo with this motor. I guess it's time to step up to the plate and get a built motor (sigh). At least I got one 11.95 pass out of the stock engine before it started puking metal.

Can someone tell me how much I'm looking at for a nice 11-second reliable daily driver type motor? I want to do stock block, stock nitrided crank, forged pistons, 412 or 415 cam (not sure which yet), Vortec heads, roller rockers, and ported and polished Vortec upper and lower intake. I also want to go with a new flexplate and front damper. I know there are a few vendors that build motors in here, but I don't even know where to start. Basically, I'm looking to buy a built longblock that I can just drop in place of the stock motor and get back on the road. RPM is the closest vendor to me, but I want to hear some opinions before making a decision.

The good news is I've already upgraded everything else on my truck outside of the motor. Here is a very small partial list of the mods I've done...just the relevant ones:

-ATR 3" SS Exhaust
-PowerMaster 200A Alternator
-Racetronix Fuel Pump Wiring Harness
-Walbro 255HP Fuel Pump
-Detroit Turbo AFPR
-Phil Long 50# Chip v5.5, 3-Bar MAP
-MSD Pro Billet Distributor
-MSD Blaster Ignition Coil
-JS Solid Motor Mounts
-RPM A2A Intercooler
-RPM Turbonetics 60-1 BB Turbo (blown)
-RPM Turbo Filter Kit
-RPM 50# Fuel Injectors
-RPM 3" Catalytic Converter
-RPM 700R4 Race Transmission
-TCS Billet 9/11 Converter (2500 RPM)
-ATR SS Headers (Cryo-Treated)
-Thermal Coat Headers, DP, Crossover
-Razor Progressive Alky Injection System
-Ramchargers Dual-Electric Fans
-Edelbrock Polished Alum. Water Pump
-Billet Specialties T-Stat Housing
-52mm Throttle Body w/Air Foil

Here are some pics of the turbo carnage...this one only had 1000 miles on it

http://geocities.com/jdonavich/SyTemp/2ndBlownTurbo1.JPG
http://geocities.com/jdonavich/SyTemp/2ndBlownTurbo2.JPG
http://geocities.com/jdonavich/SyTemp/2ndBlownTurbo3.JPG
http://geocities.com/jdonavich/SyTemp/2ndBlownTurbo4.JPG

Anyway, if you guys can help me with block, crank, cam, piston and rocker selection, that would be great. I want an engine I can run at 20-25psi through reliably. Looking for mid-to-low 11s on race gas or 91+Torco. Suggestions?

 

[denny]

Re: Stock Motor and New Turbo Are Both Gone - Need Some Advice

I want to do stock block, stock nitrided crank, forged pistons, 412 or 415 cam (not sure which yet), Vortec heads, roller rockers, and ported and polished Vortec upper and lower intake. I also want to go with a new flexplate and front damper.

Exactly what I have, all hard parts from RPM, RPM heads/intake ported.
Machine work and cyro crank done by a local shop, bought a used block for $500 and did the assemble myself.

About 9 to 10k from what I can remember
3k heads and intake - mod port
1200 machine shop (cryo crank, bore block, balance , file fit rings, intall cam berings, etc)
3- 4k in parts
don't remember the rest but it adds up fast.

almost forgot, $9.95 for DVD from Ebay "How to rebuild your 4.3"

 

[nello]

Re: Stock Motor and New Turbo Are Both Gone - Need Some Advice

Isn't that turbo under warranty for 1year no questions asked? Send it back!

 

[mrweelr]

Re: Stock Motor and New Turbo Are Both Gone - Need Some Advice

Yeah, it's under warranty, but I figured they won't honor it since my engine caused the failure. I would be VERY happy if I could have it replaced under warranty...anyone know for sure? Regarding the motor, I have no desire to build it myself - don't have the time, tools, or expertise. I forgot, I also need 4-bolt mains and a double-roller timing chain. I'm thinking $10K for the whole motor (assemled)...is that realistic? Let me know what you guys think.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Stock Motor and New Turbo Are Both Gone - Need Some Advice

what metal is coming out? any idea from where?

 

[Ross L]

Re: Stock Motor and New Turbo Are Both Gone - Need Some Advice

thats what I want to know. How can it still run fine if it's losing pieces of metal large enough to damage two turbos? :2cents:

 

[gjp]

Re: Stock Motor and New Turbo Are Both Gone - Need Some Advice

I would get a block from rpm. Dropping it in will be easy. As always Hit me up for help. I too want to know where the metal is comming from. I have been in his truck. its fast for a stock engine truck. it still feels faster then mine but I am only at 18lbs. Get a longblock from rpm. We can drop it in in a few weekends.
Shit....Just when i was going to if we can hit sears point next week.

 

[ChevelleDude71]

Re: Stock Motor and New Turbo Are Both Gone - Need Some Advice

X2 if you want a trouble free build I would go with Mike at RPM also. I don't know about the couple of weekends installation, maybe Gary is falling asleep under the truck when he does it..... :rotf: just messing with you Gary, let me know when you go to the track, I'd love to watch.

I would get a block from rpm. Dropping it in will be easy. As always Hit me up for help. I too want to know where the metal is comming from. I have been in his truck. its fast for a stock engine truck. it still feels faster then mine but I am only at 18lbs. Get a longblock from rpm. We can drop it in in a few weekends.
Shit....Just when i was going to if we can hit sears point next week.

 

[mrweelr]

Re: Stock Motor and New Turbo Are Both Gone - Need Some Advice

I have no idea what the turbo ate. I just know it made some not-so-pretty noises and blew a bunch of black/gray smoke out the exhaust when I punched it going to work a few weeks ago (22psi). It burned off and I sort of forgot about it until the turbo began making whining noises. I'm thinking piston or rings, but I'm too lazy and dejected right now to even bother taking it apart. Yes, I drove it for two weeks with a whining turbo that wouldn't build boost. It ran perfectly - just no power. This is a good excuse to finally install a built motor. I guess I should hit up John Waller or Mike Lee for a quote. How's your truck running Gary? Did you get all the little issues resolved?

 

[gjp]

Re: Stock Motor and New Turbo Are Both Gone - Need Some Advice

Think all issues are resolved. I broke a hose for the alky so its not on but the truck runs good. Kepted up with a 2007 saleen the other night. had him to 40mph and then he slowly came up on me. At 100 we were dead even. He was shocked.

Took me about 3 weekends to have the engine back in. problems keep it another 2 weekends. But with 2 guys on an engine it should go quick. I pulled my old one out and stripped down to short block in a weekend. I an talking whole days 6am-10pm. and it was my first ever engine install.

 

[FxsX24]

Re: Stock Motor and New Turbo Are Both Gone - Need Some Advice

thats what I want to know. How can it still run fine if it's losing pieces of metal large enough to damage two turbos? :2cents:

my thoughts exactly

 

[jjorgensen52]

Re: Stock Motor and New Turbo Are Both Gone - Need Some Advice

IIRC, my engine build, including machine work, parts and dyno time, ran just over $9k. Then again, I did do a lot the labor myself, and wired the stock ECM for the dyno :roll:

 

[nallj92]

Re: Stock Motor and New Turbo Are Both Gone - Need Some Advice

i just did mine for about 2500

 

[mrweelr]

Re: Stock Motor and New Turbo Are Both Gone - Need Some Advice

I've been reading through old posts and looking at different engine combos and I've narrowed it down a bit. I'm just not sure about the turbo selection and whether or not to bore .030 or .040 over. If I can't get this turbo replaced under warranty, I'm thinking of upgrading to a GTQ67 BB or whatever's good for low 11s and will work with my RPM 3" DP. The 415 cam seems to work well for a lot of folks, so I think I'll go with that and have Phil send me a new chip to work with the new motor and turbo.

That's awesome news Gary. Glad to hear your truck is running well...now if we could only get our trucks working at the same time, that would be an accomplishment, ha ha. I wonder what happened to Steven? He just fell off the face of the planet and Tom and Branden sold their trucks...weird.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Stock Motor and New Turbo Are Both Gone - Need Some Advice

You are going to check your engine is screwed before doing anything rash right?

It may be improbable but you may just have had two bad turbos. If the engine is running ok then you should do a leak down check or comp test to make sure the engine is actually falling apart before stripping it out.

I learned that the hard way - was told my engine was screwed and took it apart and found out it was probably just the injectors. Am less and less inclined to listen to other people on this truck!!!

It might be a long shot but it is worth checking before spending all that time and effort.

Are you CERTAIN that it is chicking out metal? Would there not be other indications like smoke or whines or high oil consumption?

Can you get hold of a boroscope to check the cylinder walls for grooves or wear?

Just think you might be better of identifying the problem.
You sure the turbo is getting impact damage from FOD (Foreign Object Damage?) Impact damage is different from structural failure - might be able to get someone to look at those pics or the turbo and get an assessment? The warranty might be relevant - don't discount it yourself - let the company do it.

Ask them what they think is wrong, that way the onus is on them to prove it wasn't the fault of the turbo. It is not dishonest. If it is plainly catastrophic as you suggest then you will know soon enough.

It kinda looks like you had some lateral movenent tere - the damage to those turbine blased is huge - how much metal can your engine be putting out to still run 1000 miles and do that to a turbo and STILL run?

Is there any play in the shaft now? Or is it totally seized?

That does indeed suck man - sorry you have to deal with that.

 

[gjp]

Re: Stock Motor and New Turbo Are Both Gone - Need Some Advice

I say I will get my suburban, load your SY on it. Drive it down to RPM, Head to vegas for some fun. Drive home.
When its done you can fly down and drive it back up.
If you are going to rebuild stock engine I would bore it out to what the shop suggests.
When my engine blows I am going to go all out with a bowtie block. About what Dean has.

 

[mrweelr]

Re: Stock Motor and New Turbo Are Both Gone - Need Some Advice

I don't know for certain it's the motor. I just find it very odd that I lost two turbos in 5000 miles. Last time I did a compression test, all cylinders were equal and within service book specs. The only thing it does is puff a little blue smoke on startup, but I believe this is normal considering the mileage and how hard I've driven it. Last oil change, there was also no metal on the drain plug other than a very tiny bit of fine powder, which is normal. I'm no expert on turbos, but it looks to me like something went into the turbine blades and just shredded them. There is no play in the shaft and I can still spin it by hand freely. However, the compressor blades are touching the compressor cover and preventing it from building any boost. I guess it's possible the turbo just went bad, but can they self-destruct like this without any foreign objects?

The timing couldn't be worse as I'm preparing to buy a house and also in the process of trying to sell my E55. That's Murphy's Law, though, and I can ride the GSX-R as long as it doesn't rain. Anyway, let me know what you guys recommend for a low 11-second build that will be mostly street driven with occasional track visits. I'm going to stick with the TCS billet 9/11 2500-stall because the 2800 converter I had in there before was too loose for the street and caused my tranny temps to exceed 200F. This Waller 9/11 converter rocks and the TCC actually locks like it's supposed to.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Stock Motor and New Turbo Are Both Gone - Need Some Advice

the oil on start is normal for the valve stem seals.

if a comp test is ok and there is no debris in the oil then your engine is unlikley to be falling apart. Unless you have lost some of the cylinder heads from detonation then it is unlikley that parts are fouling the turbo.

I seriously think you should assess the engine again before ploughing money unto it unnecessarily. I could have saved a fortune by buying a boroscope and doing my leakdown check rather than just rushing in and stripping my engine.

Meanwhile, the turbo could fail - thats why you have a warranty! they doo 100k rpm so any defects at manufacture can be lethal.

Also, you have def got side to side play if the blades are touching the compressor cover - maybe the slight wobble at the comp housing is amplified at the turbine side? Maybe they can get some fragments off of the blades and diagnose where your metal is coming from? You HAVE to send it away to get looked at - tell them your engine is running fine (after the leak test etc) and they will find if it is the turbo. For the money you have in the turbo it has to be worth a shot...

HTH mate, just my :2cents:

 

[mrweelr]

Re: Stock Motor and New Turbo Are Both Gone - Need Some Advice

Thanks man. I will get in touch with Mike Lee and see about sending this turbo back for an inspection and possible warranty replacement. Whether I build a new motor or not, I'll need this turbo replaced or repaired.

 

[pinellas50]

Re: Stock Motor and New Turbo Are Both Gone - Need Some Advice

I'm curious how a motor could spit metal all the way upstream like that too. Just getting something past the valves would be an accomplishment let alone all the way through the intake and IC. I would have to see it to believe it.