Who Knows about Tires and Nitrogen?

[Bill Z]

I was talking to a friend of mine about why tires seem to loose air down to about 25 pounds of pressure regularly. He explained to me that tire manufactures try to skimp on materials building tires and often this allows the air to seep through the synthetic rubber. Something like why a balloon filled with helium deflates when there isn’t any hole.

He said that if I were to use a heaver gas to inflate the tires, that would fix the problem. He suggested Nitrogen. I also heard that some of the NASCAR guys inflate their tires with Nitrogen to maintain tire pressure. He had some Pirelli tires that leaked and inflated them with Nitorgen and stopped the leak.

I have 3 questions now.

1. Has anyone else heard of this?
2. Where can I get Nitrogen cheep enough to put in my tires?
3. Would another gas work and be cheaper? I have some Acetylene (just kidding here).

 

[MikeRenz]

Re: Who Knows about Tires and Nitrogen?

i haven't heard of this but i'd sooner believe that its due to an untrue seating of the bead of the tire on the wheel. Neither the tire or the wheel are going to be 100% truely round, so there is going to be some possible gaps for air to escape. The weight of the vehicle helps/hurts this too.

 

[Loeryder]

Re: Who Knows about Tires and Nitrogen?

I have heard of guys "reclocking" their tires to fix slow leaks around the bead.
If they break the bead down then rotate the tire 180* on the rim and reseat it there is a chance it will seal better.

 

[NecroWolf]

Re: Who Knows about Tires and Nitrogen?

i've read up on this a little and the leak down is suppose to be due to the porosity of the rubber and the size of the air molecules. nitrogen has larger molecules so it doesn't escape as easy.

 

[phoonTy]

Re: Who Knows about Tires and Nitrogen?

I too have heard of using Nitrogen, but never met anyone personally who's done it. And I haven't researched it much either. Would be interesting to know if it really works.

 

[Ty0279]

Re: Who Knows about Tires and Nitrogen?

I was talking to a friend of mine about why tires seem to loose air down to about 25 pounds of pressure regularly. He explained to me that tire manufactures try to skimp on materials building tires and often this allows the air to seep through the synthetic rubber. Something like why a balloon filled with helium deflates when there isn’t any hole.

He said that if I were to use a heaver gas to inflate the tires, that would fix the problem. He suggested Nitrogen. I also heard that some of the NASCAR guys inflate their tires with Nitrogen to maintain tire pressure. He had some Pirelli tires that leaked and inflated them with Nitorgen and stopped the leak.

I have 3 questions now.

1. Has anyone else heard of this?
2. Where can I get Nitrogen cheep enough to put in my tires?
3. Would another gas work and be cheaper? I have some Acetylene (just kidding here).

Pure nitrogen is actually lighter than the 'normal air' that is usually pumped into tires now.

1. Yes. Racing teams use pure nitrogen in their tires because it doesn't expand and fluctuate tire psi as much as 'normal air' during racing. It's also less likely to diffuse through the tire wall material and 'leak'.

2. I saw a place near me that will do it for $5 per tire. Total rip-off.

3. Try the acetylene and report back. :lol:

 

[2kwik4u]

Re: Who Knows about Tires and Nitrogen?

Saw a CobaltSS on eBay yesterday that flaunted that as an "installed option"......totally who-wack-ed if you ask me.

 

[sytyguy]

Re: Who Knows about Tires and Nitrogen?

$1 per tire around here and that's only to pay for the gas (gasoline) required for homeboy to go across town and refill the tank. LOT'S of drag racers and road racers (Roebling) use it around here. Good for pressure stability.

 

[NOJIMMY]

Re: Who Knows about Tires and Nitrogen?

I was talking to a friend of mine about why tires seem to loose air down to about 25 pounds of pressure regularly. He explained to me that tire manufactures try to skimp on materials building tires and often this allows the air to seep through the synthetic rubber. Something like why a balloon filled with helium deflates when there isn’t any hole.

He said that if I were to use a heaver gas to inflate the tires, that would fix the problem. He suggested Nitrogen. I also heard that some of the NASCAR guys inflate their tires with Nitrogen to maintain tire pressure. He had some Pirelli tires that leaked and inflated them with Nitorgen and stopped the leak.

I have 3 questions now.

1. Has anyone else heard of this?
2. Where can I get Nitrogen cheep enough to put in my tires?
3. Would another gas work and be cheaper? I have some Acetylene (just kidding here).

...info that I can neither confirm, nor deny but merely reposted:

Most tires are filled with compressed air, which when dry consists of about 78 percent nitrogen, 21 percent oxygen, and 1 percent other gases by volume. Water vapor (humidity) can make up as much as 5 percent of the volume of air under worst-case conditions. Filling your tires with nitrogen mainly does two things: it eliminates moisture, and it replaces skinny oxygen molecules with fat nitrogen molecules, reducing the rate at which compressed gas diffuses through porous tire walls. That means, theoretically at least, that a tire filled with nitrogen retains optimal pressure longer, leading to more uniform tire wear and better gas mileage. The commonly quoted figure is that tires inflated to 32 psi get 3 percent better mileage than at 24 psi.

As for moisture, changes in humidity affect tire performance two ways. First, the density of humid air fluctuates more with temperature than that of dry air, so removing humidity can keep your tire pressure more consistent, especially when the temperature climbs over 100 degrees Fahrenheit. That may be a legitimate concern in Formula One racing, but it's not much of an issue if you're just tooling around town.

Humidity can also be a factor in wheel maintenance — since pure nitrogen doesn't have moisture in it, supposedly your wheels won't rust as quickly, which could lead to improved wheel performance and air sealing. The question is, how big a problem is wheel rust these days? According to a few tire and wheel shops, not very. Seriously rusted wheels are uncommon in typical steel-wheeled cars, and many high-performance cars have alloy wheels that don't rust at all. One exception is work vehicles such as dump trucks, which are exposed to a much harsher environment.

Another claim is that since nitrogen is slightly lighter than air, you'll save weight and get better performance. However, we're talking about a weight difference of less than 4 percent of the gas in the tire — in other words, a difference of less than an ounce for most vehicles. A possibly more realistic benefit is that nitrogen is largely inert chemically at low (i.e., normal) temperatures, so it won't attack the rubber in your tires like oxygen does. Oxygen attack is something both the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and Ford Research have studied, and can be a problem for tires used for a long time or in rough conditions.

More important, nitrogen doesn't support combustion, which is one reason aircraft and the space shuttle use nitrogen in their tires. The wisdom of this precaution was brought home by the crash of Mexicana Airlines flight 940 on March 31, 1986. Shortly after the Boeing 727 took off from Mexico City en route to Puerto Vallarta, an overheated landing-gear brake caused a tire improperly filled with air instead of nitrogen to overheat as well and explode, rupturing fuel and hydraulic lines. The ensuing fire and crash killed 167 passengers and crew. However, the chances of your tires catching fire anytime soon are slim.

-Larry

 

[sly dvl]

Re: Who Knows about Tires and Nitrogen?

Tires are naturally pourus and therefore the pressure should be checked regularly. In the colder climates (like up here) it's common to have to add a few pounds every month just because the rubber is "harder" in the colder months and allows the air to seep.
This is providing there isn't a hole or a poor rim seal issue, which can be repaired. If your tires are all going down uniformly then it's just seepage. If one is going down faster then the rest (like every few weeks) then you have another issue.

I wouldn't waste my money on Nitrogen until I know I don't have any leaks that need to be repaired.
I used to tell my customers when they asked about Nitrogen in tires that we used a blend of 78% N2 and 21% O2, and that we didn't charge for it (made us look good). LOL

 

[jwaller]

Re: Who Knows about Tires and Nitrogen?

we use nitrogen in the itres of all the aircraft. they dont leak down like they do with regular air from a compressor and you dont have the problem with the moisture freezing at altitude and then causing the tire to be out of balance on landing.

 

[general's servant]

Re: Who Knows about Tires and Nitrogen?

well in 08 or 09 every vehicle sold will have some sort of tire monitoring system and to help with proper performance of it, dealers are suggesting nitrigen for it.Not a Plug but I have set up a tire business in my garage which I'm working on getting nitrogen this year If you want to drive up I do it for free. Just to see another syty. Nitrogen will help with the new tire pressure systems(keep you from adding air all the time) and aid in troube free operation till the batteries die(in about 8-10 yrs).Your buddies problem is just a bad seating of the bead or some trash along the bead or maybe just an old tire. nitrogen has been around for a long time and Its only natural for it to make it in the auto industry.The local chevy dealer is getting 30 bucks for a set of tires.

 

[Luke]

Re: Who Knows about Tires and Nitrogen?

nitrogen molecules are larger that o2 so they dont leak as much. The city is starting a fuel economy study and one of the changes is nitro in the tires

 

[GarnetTy1473]

Re: Who Knows about Tires and Nitrogen?

We have a nitrogen machine at my dealership that we paid I think $8k for. I never realized that there isn't a "tank" full of nitrogen that you fill the tires up with. You hook all 4 tires up to the machine at once, it sucks down all the tires, then it pulls regular old air out of the, oh, air, and fiters the oxygen out, leaving only nitrogen left. There is no tank, just filters that filter out that oxygen that we have to change every so often. We've had the machine for about 2 months now, and still nobody knows how to use it. Once one of the techs figures it out, I'll probably fill all my vehicles with it, just for the hell of it. The service manager has been trained how to use it, but he hasn't shown anybody else yet. More money just sitting there not being use. And they wonder why my dealership lost $2.1 million last year.

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Who Knows about Tires and Nitrogen?

We service Gulfstream tires all the time.
They leak also,not as fast as car tires,but the tires are a lot thicker than a car tire.

 

[SY2455]

Re: Who Knows about Tires and Nitrogen?

If you buy your tires at http://www.costco.com/ That is all they use in the tires. Our van and my sweethearts GTO have Nitrogen in the tires and the pressure stay more constant in the tires. When Nitrogen is put in the tires, the valve stem cap is replace with a green one. This tell everyone the tires have Nitrogen in them.

 

[ashman]

Re: Who Knows about Tires and Nitrogen?

so, nitrogen content of air is approximately 78-80%. looks to me, after you refill your tires a few times, they'll be almost 100% nitrogen anyway. assuming that the smaller molecules of oxygen are the first to leak out.

 

[Bill Z]

Re: Who Knows about Tires and Nitrogen?

I was wondering if a person could get nitrogen from a welding shop or at a scuba shop. I maybe wrong here. Don’t scuba guys use nitrogen for long deep dives? Don’t welders use nitrogen to weld certain alloys like tungsten? Maybe a person could get nitrogen from some of these places.


Maybe there is a buck to be made here. Bottle nitrogen like Blue Rhino Propane and sell it at WalMart.

 

[Luke]

Re: Who Knows about Tires and Nitrogen?

so, nitrogen content of air is approximately 78-80%. looks to me, after you refill your tires a few times, they'll be almost 100% nitrogen anyway. assuming that the smaller molecules of oxygen are the first to leak out.

the tank here at the shop wont start to fill the tires with nitrogen untill the % is above 97%. other tanks might differ though. hook up 4 hoses and deflates and inflates untill all tires are 97% nitrogen.. The fuel study starts to day so I can tell if it helps

 

[Black Knight]

Re: Who Knows about Tires and Nitrogen?

Don't waste your money, we deal with it all the time. It's pretty much just another way to make up G/P in your everyday driver your not even going to notice any difference at all. Some claim better fuel milage some claim you don't have to fill up as often. Just check the pressure regularly, like you check your fluids and it will be fine. You'll see more benifit from just running your tires properly inflated.