well.. i blew the tranny again

[nfmRc8q]

Hi, after only 2 months of owning my Sy I blew 3rd gear drum.. repaired it and now about 1 month after that I blew the tranny again.. now i get a huge clunking noise while downshifting to a stop :rant: I can hear the metal chunks moving in the tranny. I never tought i would grenade a George Blake built 700r4 that fast. So I think its time to move to the 4L80e because I'm doing a bit of 1/8 and 1/4 mile racing.. so my question is what do I need to do the swap? shorter propshaft and adapter plate and what else? also do I need a higher stall TC to go with my 20g turbo? do a bone stock 4L80e can support any kinda abuse? mods in signature. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

David

 

[George Blake]

Re: well.. i blew the tranny again

Deleted, see next post

 

[George Blake]

Re: well.. i blew the tranny again

Ok, I found it. I built that one 3 years ago for Syntist. 3 years of beatings probably ain't bad. Then in your ownership you broke it 2 times in 2 months? What did you do each time it broke? I've had guys using my transmission for over 5 years with no problems. Remember, you can't rev them up and drop it into gear. No trans will take a neutral drop. We've thoroughly discussed the shortcomings of 700s on here. Some guys love them, some hate them.
I do all the 80e stuff. You need to figure out what your doing first that's eating up 700s. I've told guys and told guys that 700s have limits when using them. No manual shifting, no neutral drops, etc.Tell me what you did each time you broke it. I don't want you doing an 80e then neutral dropping it. I do the entire kit to do an 80e and it includes a 44 page instruction manual. I've been adament. It doesn't matter who builds a 700, due to it's shifting characteristic, you have to be careful with it.

 

[nfmRc8q]

Re: well.. i blew the tranny again

Ok, I found it. I built that one 3 years ago for Syntist. 3 years of beatings probably ain't bad. Then in your ownership you broke it 2 times in 2 months? What did you do each time it broke? I've had guys using my transmission for over 5 years with no problems. Remember, you can't rev them up and drop it into gear. No trans will take a neutral drop. We've thoroughly discussed the shortcomings of 700s on here. Some guys love them, some hate them.
I do all the 80e stuff. You need to figure out what your doing first that's eating up 700s. I've told guys and told guys that 700s have limits when using them. No manual shifting, no neutral drops, etc.Tell me what you did each time you broke it. I don't want you doing an 80e then neutral dropping it. I do the entire kit to do an 80e and it includes a 44 page instruction manual. I've been adament. It doesn't matter who builds a 700, due to it's shifting characteristic, you have to be careful with it.

The first time it broke, I did a boost launch with a WOT run.. the 1-2 shift was normal and then when it was about to shift into 3rd it just rev in neutral an then no more 3rd gear and found out that all the teeths on the "3rd gear drum?" were destroyed and i found em all into the tranny like big metal chunks. replaced the broken part, changed all the clutches and the "band?" empty the TC and refilled the tranny and TC with new oil.

Second time was right after I did a highway race against a Suzuki GSX-R1000. I did 2 pulls from 60mph to 150mph. After I got off the highway the tranny was feeling fine.. but after like 20 miles of driving, while slowing down to a stop I heard a huge CLUNK and then i hear a big whine coming from it, and now when slowing down to a stop when the tranny downshifts you can hear the metal chunks going everywhere.

No, I don't rev it in neutral an then drop it in gear, I know that it is very bad for a tranny. This truck is daily driven and I go to the track once a week and doing maybe 20 runs each time, I'm not doing redlight races but I will not refuse a pull against a bike on the highway once in a while. Just so you know.. it takes alot of beating.

I also noticed that the tranny will not do any kinda WOT 2-3 shifts.. it just rev to 5500rpm (I'm not doing it.. but if I keep my foot on the gas it will) or until i let off the gas, I tried ajusting the TV cable but with no effects..

If you want any other kind of informations just ask, thanks.

 

[bezerk]

Re: well.. i blew the tranny again

20 runs a week at a track..damn...i think your tranny did good man. if you do a race from a roll? do you floor it so it downshifts WOT?

 

[chelo]

Re: well.. i blew the tranny again

20 runs a week at a track..damn...i think your tranny did good man. if you do a race from a roll? do you floor it so it downshifts WOT?

it might be time for an 80e with all that abuse.

 

[JJsyclone1128]

Re: well.. i blew the tranny again

Yeah 20 races a week is alot of abuse.

 

[nfmRc8q]

Re: well.. i blew the tranny again

20 runs a week at a track..damn...i think your tranny did good man. if you do a race from a roll? do you floor it so it downshifts WOT?

Yeah maybe 10 to 20 runs each time i got to the track (6 months a year cause we have winter here). It's a 1/8 mile track with no timeslips just for fun. I go to the 1/4 mile track maybe 3 or 4 times a year and do about 10 runs each time.

No, I never floor it so it downshifts at WOT, I also have a B&M ratchet shifter and never used it to make the tranny upshift or downshift manually.

 

[George Blake]

Re: well.. i blew the tranny again

That's bracket racing levels of abuse. For the internal teeth of the input drum to be broken off, that did not happen on that one run. It just let go finally. Don't mess with the 700 anymore, go 80e.
The input drum of the 700 is all aluminum. You need the steel and cast iron of the 80e. Normally the sprag breaks but I reinforced it and it just found the next weak link. 700s are not performance transmission. They are lightweight smog friendly transmissions. I sent you a PM on the kit you should use. I HIGHLY recommend going with the billet 32 spline input shaft for the transfer case. That way your not twisting off output shafts at the track during burnouts.

 

[nfmRc8q]

Re: well.. i blew the tranny again

That's bracket racing levels of abuse. For the internal teeth of the input drum to be broken off, that did not happen on that one run. It just let go finally. Don't mess with the 700 anymore, go 80e.
The input drum of the 700 is all aluminum. You need the steel and cast iron of the 80e. Normally the sprag breaks but I reinforced it and it just found the next weak link. 700s are not performance transmission. They are lightweight smog friendly transmissions. I sent you a PM on the kit you should use. I HIGHLY recommend going with the billet 32 spline input shaft for the transfer case. That way your not twisting off output shafts at the track during burnouts.

I am not doing any kind of burnouts when I go to the track or anything like it, just the race itself with a boost launch at aroud 4-5psi.

PM replied.

 

[George Blake]

Re: well.. i blew the tranny again

Cool. Let me know if you decide to follow through. Good luck!

 

[nfmRc8q]

Re: well.. i blew the tranny again

Does a bone stock 4L80e can survive trough this kind of abuse?

 

[George Blake]

Re: well.. i blew the tranny again

Does a bone stock 4L80e can survive trough this kind of abuse?

Put a transgo HD2 kit in it and a better smaller diameter torque converter. Makes the direct clutch dual feed and has several pressure safety setups and a safety for the manual valve. Get a KNOWN good working unit. The kit has a short manual shift shaft in it. If you find a newer unit, the shift shaft will stick out too far and hit the prop.
You can also do a full manual shift 80e with the transgo HD3 kit but I recommend finding a controller.

 

[nfmRc8q]

Re: well.. i blew the tranny again

Put a transgo HD2 kit in it and a better smaller diameter torque converter. Makes the direct clutch dual feed and has several pressure safety setups and a safety for the manual valve. Get a KNOWN good working unit. The kit has a short manual shift shaft in it. If you find a newer unit, the shift shaft will stick out too far and hit the prop.
You can also do a full manual shift 80e with the transgo HD3 kit but I recommend finding a controller.

what do you mean by controller? wich converter should I buy?

 

[ghettosled]

Re: well.. i blew the tranny again

The first time it broke, I did a boost launch with a WOT run.. the 1-2 shift was normal and then when it was about to shift into 3rd it just rev in neutral an then no more 3rd gear and found out that all the teeths on the "3rd gear drum?" were destroyed and i found em all into the tranny like big metal chunks. replaced the broken part, changed all the clutches and the "band?" empty the TC and refilled the tranny and TC with new oil.

there's no way just changing the fluid got all the crap out of your converter, cooler, lines, etc

The converter should be cut open, re-balanced etc and i would personally change out the transmission cooler since it is very difficult to remove all the debris.

I would suspect that is one reason for the failure, the second reason is due to overheating. There is no way you can make 10-20 passes a night and not overheat the trans with that many boost launches. I would invest in a trans temp gauge next!

 

[nfmRc8q]

Re: well.. i blew the tranny again

there's no way just changing the fluid got all the crap out of your converter, cooler, lines, etc

The converter should be cut open, re-balanced etc and i would personally change out the transmission cooler since it is very difficult to remove all the debris.

I would suspect that is one reason for the failure, the second reason is due to overheating. There is no way you can make 10-20 passes a night and not overheat the trans with that many boost launches. I would invest in a trans temp gauge next!

I doubt there is any more crap into the lines etc.. all I found in the tranny was big metal chunks there wasn't any kind of grounded metal on the magnets and/or fluid. I have an electric fan installed directrly onto the tranny cooler, and i let it cool down for about 10-15 minutes between each run. The last time i got the tranny out the oil didn't even smell like overheating. But I will buy an external tranny cooler with temp gauge and a small fan directly on the cooler

 

[George Blake]

Re: well.. i blew the tranny again

700s are really bad for overheating. What happens when you cook the fluid is that it thins out(loses it's viscosity). Look up a post by WindedV6. He details the ins and outs of making a 700 live. 10 to 20 passes in a day over and over again isn't one of them. There is NO way for it to cool down between passes. That's why you burnt 3-4. That is a dynamic clutch. That means it goes on and off and on doing double duty. This constant cycling opens it up to burning. Bad design for racing. 80e's don't get hot like a 700 does during the time you build boost brake stalling it. It gets hotter but NOTHING like a 700. You just cannot do that to that transmission. There's no such thing as "hardly any" unfortunately. If you get ANY particulates in the lines, they come back to the trans and will clog up valves. Usually the TV valve is the first to get a chunk.
ANY time you have a failure, converter gets cut open or replaced.

80e is electronic. It requires the use of a programmable controller. You adjust shift points, line pressure, wot shift points, TCC lockup.......etc. You must have a controller or go full manual. Transgo HD3 is what that one is called and you will also need a boost option setup for the pressure modulator that comes with it if you go that route.

I recommend the PI 9.5" triple clutch.
Others will recommend the 9/11 billet model made by TCS for the 80e.
Others will recommend the Yank.
Since you race the crap out of it, you need the triple clutch if you want to lock up at WOT.

What you are doing is beyond the capacity of the 700. Most guys are excited to get 20 or 30 passes out of a 700 before having to "freshen" it. New clutches. The clutches are TINY and the shift characteristic or the 700 does NOT like racing. To shift the 700 into 2nd your grabbing with that band and stopped 70% from moving at thousands of rpms. You do the same thing for 4th. Most guys break or burn up the band. In the 80e, NO BAND applies unless you manuall shift it into 2nd by pulling the lever down. Completely different animal. Each gear has it's OWN drum, big pistons and massive clutches. The OVERRUN clutch of the 80e is as big as the 3/4 clutch of the 700. That's the difference in scale. There's just no comparison.

Since your gonna rebuild your current trans again, get an inline magnetic filter with a bypass setup. Put it on the RETURN line coming back to the trans. Flush the cooler as best you can and then use compressed air. This way, the crap that WILL be in the converter will NOT get into the trans. Go about 500 miles and swap that filter for another one. Go another 1000 and swap it again. Put the last one on and you should be able to go on the last one until you break it again.

 

[nfmRc8q]

Re: well.. i blew the tranny again

I couldn't ask for a better answer. Thanks George for that long relpy its very appreciated. I will contact you as soon as possible to get the kit.. I'll try to find a good buildable 4L80e. Where can I buy the triple clutch converter you're talking about and how much does it cost? same thing for the controller? Or maybe I can bring my truck to you and make a beast out of it? :lol:

 

[jpalmer]

Re: well.. i blew the tranny again

well George, you made a believer out of me too. Damn, here goes more money:roll:

 

[George Blake]

Re: well.. i blew the tranny again

I couldn't ask for a better answer. Thanks George for that long relpy its very appreciated. I will contact you as soon as possible to get the kit.. I'll try to find a good buildable 4L80e. Where can I buy the triple clutch converter you're talking about and how much does it cost? same thing for the controller? Or maybe I can bring my truck to you and make a beast out of it? :lol:

I can do the triple clutch converter and the controller if you want them. I'll work up a quote and email it to you.