Rack and Pinion Steering?

[mattw]

Re: Rack and Pinion Steering?

I finally made it to a u-pull-it yard and grabbed a rack from an explorer.. I plan to do some test fitting in an empty frame this weekend...

Just FYI our stock steering box is 30 pounds by itself.. The rack and pinion unit is 28 lbs including tie rod ends..

The rack, tie rod ends, and steering shaft came to $45.70 at this yard..

-Matt

 

[mattw]

Re: Rack and Pinion Steering?

The more I measure the more it seems like this rack is meant for our trucks.. The pivot points(where the tie rod ends connect and make a joint) are almost exactly 25.5" apart which matches the stock bar in our application. This rack may be closer to 26" but I can't imagine that 1/2" will make any diff...

-Matt

 

[super-gt]

Re: Rack and Pinion Steering?

The more I measure the more it seems like this rack is meant for our trucks.. The pivot points(where the tie rod ends connect and make a joint) are almost exactly 25.5" apart which matches the stock bar in our application. This rack may be closer to 26" but I can't imagine that 1/2" will make any diff...

-Matt

Awesome! Keep us posted. :tup: I wanted to do this in my truck but couldn't find a rack that lined up to pivot right with the A-arms.

 

[mattw]

Re: Rack and Pinion Steering?

Anyone know the diamater of the holes in our spindels that the tie rods go into? These tie rod ends have a tapered end that goes from 9/16(.5625) - 11/16(.5875). If anyone has a stock tie rod end laying around and could make that measurement that would be spiffy..

Also, this rack is 3.25 turns lock to lock and has 6" of travel. Anyone know how far the bar in our application travels from full left to full right?


Thanks,
-Matt

 

[TT350]

Re: Rack and Pinion Steering?

Speed way motors sells a tapered reamers
just for this type of mod.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/SearchResults.aspx

 

[mattw]

Re: Rack and Pinion Steering?

Good deal on the reamers.. I put our stock box in the vice and swung the pitman arm back and forth to create the arc in this picture.. It shows that our box provides 6.5" of travel full lock to full lock.. I hope that the 1/2" difference does not increase my turning radius by much...

-Matt

 

[MikeRenz]

Re: Rack and Pinion Steering?

Good deal on the reamers.. I put our stock box in the vice and swung the pitman arm back and forth to create the arc in this picture.. It shows that our box provides 6.5" of travel full lock to full lock.. I hope that the 1/2" difference does not increase my turning radius by much...

-Matt

i doubt we use that full 6.5" of travel though. The insides of our wheels get scratched up if you try to turn the wheels full lock anyway. 6" is prolly better.

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Rack and Pinion Steering?

i doubt we use that full 6.5" of travel though. The insides of our wheels get scratched up if you try to turn the wheels full lock anyway. 6" is prolly better.

I agree our Box get nore where near 6.5" of travel. With my ZQ8 out of my truck it was 2 3/4 lock to lock, in the truck its ~2 turns. Our steering box probably sees closer to 5" of travel.

 

[mattw]

Re: Rack and Pinion Steering?

I was taking a look today and it looks like the neck of the rack will be very close to the top most forward mount of our front diff.. This may force me to mount the rack a few inches more forward than our current steering linkage.. Can someone that understands steering/suspension geometry explain to me what impact this may have..

Thanks,
-Matt

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Rack and Pinion Steering?

this is brilliant - but does it affect the suspension if you have coilovers in? Either JS Engineering or RPM?

 

[mattw]

Re: Rack and Pinion Steering?

this is brilliant - but does it affect the suspension if you have coilovers in? Either JS Engineering or RPM?

Not sure about the fitment with coilovers.. I am going to be doing this on a truck with stock suspension.. I would imagine that it would be fine as I intend to mount it in a similar location to the existing steering linkage and tie rod ends...

-Matt

 

[JSM]

Re: Rack and Pinion Steering?

I was taking a look today and it looks like the neck of the rack will be very close to the top most forward mount of our front diff.. This may force me to mount the rack a few inches more forward than our current steering linkage.. Can someone that understands steering/suspension geometry explain to me what impact this may have..

Thanks,
-Matt

Obviously clearance and things fitting is part of it.

As you move the pivots of the tie rod, front to back and in and out you will start to affect bumpsteer.

You may actually be able to improve bump steer. On the flip side if you make it worse things could get difficult to drive, and be very scary.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Rack and Pinion Steering?

this is a godsend. The steering on my sister's Ford Ka is better than my Ty.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Rack and Pinion Steering?

matt,

I just read up on that thread in the blazinlow forum and they said that SEMA were producing a drop in kit for the S10 for $800. Have you seen it?

If it fits an S10, is that the same as a Sy/Ty?

How is this all looking?

 

[TT350]

Re: Rack and Pinion Steering?

I will be making this mod very soon.
I have been studding this for some time now
and have come up with a plan.
I’ve looked at a lot of factory cars and trucks
with rack & pinion setups. They all share one
thing , the tie rod ends and the rack are parallel
and level. You can’t deviate from this and have
it drive right!

I’m going to use a Mustang fox body rack 79-93.
Tie rod to tie rod is the best fit I’ve found.
I’m going to mount my motor with a motor plate
and remove the frame pads and the upper mounting
ear from the front diff and fab a new one. I will post
pic’s as I go true this mod.


Chris

 

[mattw]

Re: Rack and Pinion Steering?

I made some progress this weekend.. Getting this Explorer rack to fit will requrie a good but of cutting, grinding, and welding.

The pivot points on the explorer rack are an exact match to the stock steering linkage:

Overall the stock setup is slightly longer than the Explorer R&P:

In order to clear the front diff upper mount I ended up having to mount this ~2" further forward than the stock steering linkage.. I don't think that this would cause bump steer as I think mismatched pivot points are the main cause of bump steer.

I read on another website that if you draw a line from the pivot point of the lower control arm to the picot point of the upper control arm that it should intersect the pivot point of the steering linkage/rack when the wheels are centered.. I strung a line to test this and it seems right on:

-Matt

 

[MikeRenz]

Re: Rack and Pinion Steering?

thats a nice setup. How'd you make that? :lol:


For the answer....watch this: www.michaelrenz.com/frame.wmv

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[Syborg Twin Turbo]

Re: Rack and Pinion Steering?

man if you need a really clean frame i have a rust free syclone chassis sitting in my warehouse

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Rack and Pinion Steering?

so does it work? what is the next step?

 

[mattw]

Re: Rack and Pinion Steering?

so does it work? what is the next step?

Well, I need to find some tie-rod ends that fit our spindels and thread to this arms of this box.. They are M14-1.5 threads.. I tried a f-body tie rod end and it did thread on but its not long enough.. I need a tie rod end at least as long as the explorer rod that fits our spindels.. I've got a buddy that works at NAPA every Saturday.. He is going to do some digging this weekend and see if he can come up with anything.. I may make a trip back to the u-pull-it yard and just start checking any/all GM R&P vehicles to see if I can find what I am after..

After that I may throw a motor on this frame and work up the steering shaft..

I also still need to build the mounts for this rack..

Don't expect this project to progress quickly.. The frame is up at my parents and I usually only get there on the weekends... Once I have everything mocked up on this frame I still have the issue of pulling the motor in my truck to throw this in...


-Matt