Question for sy/ty gurus regarding feasibility of using syty 4.3 in rock crawler

[Toddt]

I will copy/paste my first post , then follow up with a few questions and concerns I have thought about. I am hoping to be able to get past my issues, Please help me...... I have searched forum extensively, and have not found the answers to most of my questions
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Hi my name is TODD I am from Connecticut. I am an Avid Rock crawler (off-road) .
I have a very well built crawler that currently runs a stock jeep 4.2l I6 with fuel injection.
The engine is very hurt, and I have been limping through the season. Looking to do a engine swap and trying to be a little different than the rest, with the typical sbc or ls powered rig.

I stumbled apon a crashed s-10, that had a syclone engine transplanted into it..and swooped it as fast as I could. I took the 4.3l, 700r4. And entire harness from donor truck. It even had syclone dash with 46000 miles on clock, engine internals seem to concur with that too.The appears the previous owner put new tailhousing on tranny and got rid of t-case

My plans are to put that into my rig. I have already purchased vortec heads, made intake mods to cover larger ports. ( I built it up with aluminum tig weld then machined) And drilled and tapped old hold down pattern into vortecs My plan is for a reliable ( not huge hp). With good throttle response turbo engine running the stock inter cooler with an upgraded turbo. If I could see 350hp or maybe a little more I would be very happy. If what've read is correct, stock the sy/ty should have been about 320 hp. With a nice turbo, vortec heads and. Some proper sized injectors I hope to hit 350hp +.

Any advice to meet these goals would be greatly appreciated. I am so outside my comfort zone here. Lol

I know some of you may frown apon my use of the venerable 4.3l syty in such a lowly application. I think it will make a truly unique off-road rig. I promise to uphold the syty heritage.
If anyone would have a recommended turbo for this application?
I would appreciate input
I'm looking to stay in the same kind of power curve as a stock syty Would a cam change be in order
. Also any help on selecting injectors with the new vortec heads.
In the northeast, are there any engine builders that are known for working with this platform?
I have been reading and absorbing info from the web. But appreciate the wealth of knowledge I am sure this forum holds.
Thank you, and I look forward to chatting it up
toddt
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Alright on to SOME of my questions.
As above mentioned. I would like to use vortec heads, an aftermarket turbo (or rebuild my stock td06 turbo that has shaft play and chewed up compressor wheel)
I'd like to be 350-400 hp while still staying with a low end grunt. I'd be willing to sacrifice hp for low end torque.
So this is where my concerns start to rise. I have searched this forum high and low, and torn through the internet.
Would the vortecs and slightly larger turbo warrant larger injectors?

How do I tune this setup? What is this fuel injection system actually called , Are there any aftermarket ECMs that are easier or better or even applicable
I noticed some reference to data logging, but I have not seen anything applicable for sale..
I have no objection to buying software, hardware or anything I need to do it. Can this be a do-it-yourselfer tunable setup?
Please direct me to the tools/electronics required to accomplish this. I am a pretty good mechanic/ fabricator, and not the dumbest guy you'll ever meet.
I do have the entire harness from truck , and computer. I ripped every thing out of the truck. EVERYTHING!
Does anybody use an obd2 4.3l ecm? Would this even work?
I do have to send the crank to have the main journals ground... while I have this whole thing apart, is there a good cam upgrade to perform at the same time, or is the factory grind a good fit
Last question....( for now anyway , lol) is
I sold the th700 that came with it because my plan was to run a th350 infront of my atlas transfer case . I've been reading that the sy/ty ECM uses some input from the tranny to control boost and waste gate. Are there anyways around this? I'd really like to use the short length and strengths of the th350.

Thank you in advance for your help.
I have not found very much on the internet
I am hoping to make this work , if I cannot. I may go LS route and have some sy/ty stuff for sale. :-( Toddt

 

[0966Sy]

Question for sy/ty gurus regarding feasibility of using syty 4.3 in rock crawler

I'd choose what stall would be suitable for your crawling machine, depending on weight, stall speed and gear ratio I'd then choose a turbo. I'm not a crawler guy, but I'd imagine you would want low end torque. If so I'd stay around 2k RPM to take advantage of the midrange torque on the 4.3. Stock upper intake should be good for torque, I'd say a 44-52 would be a good size turbo. As far as ECU I'd go bigstuff 3, best bang for buck, it will be easy to wire in your custom buggy. You could sell the stock syty harness to someone who could use it and help fund the project. Goodluck, let see some pictures

 

[Toddt]

Re: Question for sy/ty gurus regarding feasibility of using syty 4.3 in rock crawler

Yes. I'd like to keep the stall speed low, I don't need a lot of heat in tranny

Thx for quick reply
As far as my #s go
I'm on 39" tires
Weight is approx 4000
4.88s
Transfer case is 5:1. All technical work is done in low range
I will look into big stuff 3. I will google it.
0966 for what it's worth. Back in the early 80s I lived in the woodlands. And can remember boating and swimming in lake Conroe many times. I moved to ct. when I was 13.
What is a 44-52 turbo?

How about th350. Is it usable?

 

[lil red s-10]

Re: Question for sy/ty gurus regarding feasibility of using syty 4.3 in rock crawler

im actualy going to use a th350 in my syclone because i dont have or wont have the funds to do a 4l80e swap. seemed like a good alternative plus when you build them just a little they are 2x stronger than the stock 700r4 maby even stronger

 

[BigDaveZJ]

Re: Question for sy/ty gurus regarding feasibility of using syty 4.3 in rock crawler

As a fellow wheeler, I believe in keeping it simple. It would be unique, sure, but the only place that gets you on the trail is making it harder to find parts when something breaks.

 

[TYTILIDIE]

Re: Question for sy/ty gurus regarding feasibility of using syty 4.3 in rock crawler

I would go super charger for what you're doing. If that. Any lag could mean the difference between failure and success and turbos lag. Plus, the 4.3 is not ultra reliable.

 

[liquidswords88]

Re: Question for sy/ty gurus regarding feasibility of using syty 4.3 in rock crawler

I would go super charger for what you're doing. If that. Any lag could mean the difference between failure and success and turbos lag. Plus, the 4.3 is not ultra reliable.

Just because st/ty are not reliable does not mean the 4.3 as a whole are flawed. I have personally owned three 4.3 powered trucks with 250,000 plus miles on them. Due to their lower operating rpms they actually seem to last longer than their sbc counterparts. An old late 80's throttle body 4.3 is probably one of the most reliable v6 engines ever made. Just my:2cents:

 

[TYTILIDIE]

Re: Question for sy/ty gurus regarding feasibility of using syty 4.3 in rock crawler

Just because st/ty are not reliable does not mean the 4.3 as a whole are flawed. I have personally owned three 4.3 powered trucks with 250,000 plus miles on them. Due to their lower operating rpms they actually seem to last longer than their sbc counterparts. An old late 80's throttle body 4.3 is probably one of the most reliable v6 engines ever made. Just my:2cents:

Just because you owned 3 non turbo 4.3 trucks with 250k plus doesn't mean that a SYTY engine will do the same. Especially in this guys situation. He asked for experienced advise, I can dismiss yours as its not SYTY related so he got my 13 years of SYTY experience:2cents:

 

[Toddt]

Re: Question for sy/ty gurus regarding feasibility of using syty 4.3 in rock crawler

alright hear is the best i can do for picks. I've tried for an hour to get full size pics up. but i can't figure it out.
i have not completely given up on this idea.
can you explain your interpretation of unreliable, and give me scenarios
i do carry trail spares including spare fuel pump, coil, crank trigger pickup. and u-joints
i carry anything that a failure would stop me dead in my tracks, u joints just get beat up, and are pretty much a consumable

not knowing to much about the sy/ty platform, but if i am understanding the basics, as long as there is not a catastrophic mechanical failure most failures in sensors would just put you into a poor running condition, or a limp mode of sorts?

if i cannot get quick throttle respond from the platform , i may right this idea off........ but i have trouble rapping my brain around the platform being "unreliable" they made about a billion 4.3s super engine for what it is.

please elaborate on the lack of reliability thx

 

[TYTILIDIE]

Re: Question for sy/ty gurus regarding feasibility of using syty 4.3 in rock crawler

Oiling for starters. Bearings can crap out under light detonation. Ignition systems on these trucks are usually eaten alive unless you run the good stuff and even then expect to do an ign module and cap and rotor somewhat often. I used to daily drive my Ty. I bought it with 119k in 2003. By 2007 I had 220k. In that time, I went through about 4 700r4's, 3 engines, countless sets of plugs and wires (autozone stuff though so I cant be too harsh on that). I went through a lot of other things too that you probably wont have to deal with. There is nothing SUPER about the 4.3.

I will also tell you that if you get excellent throttle response it will be relative to what a turbo car gets. Any lag at all in crawling and I think you would thoroughly regret your decision to use a SYTY engine. Even with a smaller turbo and tight converter you will still get lag, may not be much but it will exist.

 

[0966Sy]

Question for sy/ty gurus regarding feasibility of using syty 4.3 in rock crawler

I don't see your situation being unreliable on the engine side. You may want to consider a deeper oil pan with a longer pick up tube to increase oil capacity for the grades you would be climbing.

The 350 trans would be fine as you are mostly doing stuff into 3rd gear tops. The ratio of the 350 is better suitable for your gear ratio and big tires which will keep the engine loaded. This situation would keep the turbo spooled almost all the time while your climbing. I don't see lag being a problem at all. I'd even venture to say a stock turbo would be suitable. Sense your doing a custom setup I'd just do a PTE 44-52 that will keep your low end torque up and not worry to much about needing anything bigger. Your making a torque monster not horsepower queen.

Consider this, I would decide what to do with the induction system. You are going to need a charge air system with greater capacity for heat than the stock charge air cooler. So consider a A2A that will be protected with fans to keep charge air temps down. A liquid to air would get heat soaked in your application. High boost isn't going to be something you will need, maybe 15 tops. You have to keep cylinder temps down while holding the engine under a load for a long period of time. Your trans will also need to be able to handle the heat.

The BS3 is a stand alone system that can support a TPI 350 V8 or the 4.3. Price is around $1850 for the basic system. So consider if you move to a 350 V8 your still at no loss with this system. The self tuning is pretty user friendly and won't keep you from tuning it yourself or understanding the system.

So my opinion is keep the oil temps down and capacity up and being well tuned with a system like big stuff 3 and your reliability would be nothing to worry about.

The turbo is going to give you a lot more torque, but be ready to battle the heat in all areas

 

[liquidswords88]

Re: Question for sy/ty gurus regarding feasibility of using syty 4.3 in rock crawler

Just because a bunch of wannabe mechanics buy turbo powered vehicles, and then proceed to destroy them in an effort to be "fast" does not make them unreliable. In stock form well maintained the sy/ty combo is as reliable as any other turbo car. Adding a turbo is going to complicate any drivetrain. This is going to make any turbo setup more prone to fail then a NA setup. Also failures are more likely to include breakage of parts you are not going to just run to Napa and buy. If you want a more unique machine, I say go for it. If you want the best performing most reliable machine I say no way. It sounds like a cool project. But very expensive and not in any way simple. Having built multiple race cars I am more prone to lean towards making competitive vehicles as simple as possible. This lessens the chance of a breakage costing you a win. If you really want factual information about the sy/ty drivetrains search is your friend. I have spent many hours seeking information. Everything is in there you just have to find it. All I have seen since I joined this forum is bullshit opinion and misinformation. Good luck

 

[TYTILIDIE]

Re: Question for sy/ty gurus regarding feasibility of using syty 4.3 in rock crawler

In stock form well maintained the sy/ty combo is as reliable as any other turbo car.

Bullshit! Right up until you start beating on it. I don't think anyone on here has been rougher on a truck than me. I can tell you that even in stock form it wont hold up to real abuse. Well maintained in this situation means not beating on it and what good is power if you can't use it?

Look Todd, put your 4.3 SYTY engine in that rock crawler and don't say you weren't warned. BS3 is great and will net you great tuning results like Erik said but the heat situation and lack of response will kill your dream. Set SYTY 4.3 aside, turbo lag is NOT desired in rock crawling. The amount of time you will be at part throttle while NEEDING that torque will surely cause you to ruin/hold up your event.

 

[AUSyTyIN]

Re: Question for sy/ty gurus regarding feasibility of using syty 4.3 in rock crawler

Bullshit! Right up until you start beating on it. I don't think anyone on here has been rougher on a truck than me. I can tell you that even in stock form it wont hold up to real abuse. Well maintained in this situation means not beating on it and what good is power if you can't use it?

Look Todd, put your 4.3 SYTY engine in that rock crawler and don't say you weren't warned. BS3 is great and will net you great tuning results like Erik said but the heat situation and lack of response will kill your dream. Set SYTY 4.3 aside, turbo lag is NOT desired in rock crawling. The amount of time you will be at part throttle while NEEDING that torque will surely cause you to ruin/hold up your event.

As a occasional wheeler, and all around turbo nut, I agree 100%. Go with a super charged setup. You want predictable, instantaneous power. You can't get that with a turbo.

 

[sae]

Re: Question for sy/ty gurus regarding feasibility of using syty 4.3 in rock crawler

A stock turbo with batmowheel and external gate or jsm flanged (open up area where flapper is, make downpipe to accomodate the outlet) will probably be the fastest spool with an MHI that you will get. Your biggest gains will be proper downpipe and wastegate setup.

I'd consider a holset hy35 on the budget side of things, very wide map and outspools most similar sized turbos and will support plenty of power. DSM guys can see decent boost at 3500 RPM on a 2L.

As for reliability, less reliable than something with less parts, yes, unreliable no. It's not like it's a stock headed engine running on the ragged edge of the stock turbo and downpipe. We're talking 350-400 on a 4.3L v6 that is being rebuilt with decent heads and application specific turbo.

I'm assuming you are usually manually in a gear, like 1 or 2 which would make spool irrelevant anyway.. I mean unless you're at a dead stop, it will spool very quickly.. Look at all the new turbo cars with small displacement and flat torque from 1800-5000.. Incorrect turbo selection makes lag more than anything

 

[Toddt]

Re: Question for sy/ty gurus regarding feasibility of using syty 4.3 in rock crawler

Thank you for all your responses,
As much as I really wanted to jump into this project.
If throttle response and reliability can't be had, I will probably do an LS power plant instead.
I thought about the supercharged 4.3 , as the lower end of the sy/ty engine should hold up to it. But the supercharger cost is very significant,
But I beat the ever loving crap out of this thing. The 39" tires are a sticky competition compound Krawler that are well known for finding all your equipments deficiencies. My first set of 37" Krawlers made me retire my all chromo'd dana 44s and exploded a dana 300 case. I stepped up to full chromo'd d60s with a full on competition atlas transfer case. I do flog this thing, I need the engine to be reliable.
This sux !

I do thank you guy for steering me in the right direction.

 

[BigDaveZJ]

Re: Question for sy/ty gurus regarding feasibility of using syty 4.3 in rock crawler

Definitely think you're making the right choice. I just got done doing a lot of work to the motor in my Jeep, and kept it factory to keep it simple. Doesn't hurt that Jeep was smart enough to put a V8 in ZJ's, but even on just 35's I like having a fair amount of power.

 

[RealFastV6]

I agree with all this shit being said.

It's really not the right application for this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[87TYClone]

Re: Question for sy/ty gurus regarding feasibility of using syty 4.3 in rock crawler

You should sell me the engine/trans setup for my TYclone project!!

 

[Toddt]

Re: Question for sy/ty gurus regarding feasibility of using syty 4.3 in rock crawler

You should sell me the engine/trans setup for my TYclone project!!

I will be looking to sell what I have. Which is most everything you need to make a clone. Because it came out of a regular s-10
I did sell the 700r 4
The only thing I don't have is the oil cooler, radiator for intercooler

If you are local , Get in touch with me , I was going to Craigslist, or eBay this stuff when I get some time.
Engine is currently torn down to short block status for inspection, which It has passed .


Thanks again guys for all your help Todd