One last shot... Breaking up!

BoostedSUV

Active member
Re: One last shot... Breaking up!

I've got a good friend that does starters and alts for my racecars. I will have him check it for me. Its a lifetime warranty alt from autozone so if it needs to be replaced they need to prove its bad as well...
 

Poconojoe

Donating Member
Re: One last shot... Breaking up!

x2.. that's why I recommended a good alternator shop instead. And Matt should tell the shop he thinks the diode tree may have a problem.. that way they'll pay more attention to it.


I think you meant diode trio. I can't see that being the issue unless it's shorted and then it should show up all the time
 

BoostedSUV

Active member
Re: One last shot... Breaking up!

I think you meant diode trio. I can't see that being the issue unless it's shorted and then it should show up all the time

From what I was reading about AC current going through the system it could certainly cause what I'm seeing. It would be RPM specific, can get worse with heat, and the ACV can cause sensors and the ECM to do crazy things that don't otherwise make any sense. Not saying that's my issue but from I'm reading it can certainly make sense!
 

turbodig

Active member
Re: One last shot... Breaking up!

From what I was reading about AC current going through the system it could certainly cause what I'm seeing. It would be RPM specific, can get worse with heat, and the ACV can cause sensors and the ECM to do crazy things that don't otherwise make any sense. Not saying that's my issue but from I'm reading it can certainly make sense!

Easy to test - take the wires off the + feed of the alt, and bolt them together. (Wrap with some tape)


Start the truck. With the alt out of play, you'll be able to isolate whether or not it's the problem
 

BoostedSUV

Active member
Re: One last shot... Breaking up!

Easy to test - take the wires off the + feed of the alt, and bolt them together. (Wrap with some tape)


Start the truck. With the alt out of play, you'll be able to isolate whether or not it's the problem

Doing exactly that tonight. :tup: we shall see. I'm really doubting that its my issue though
 

WyoSyclone

Active member
Re: One last shot... Breaking up!

I think you meant diode trio. I can't see that being the issue unless it's shorted and then it should show up all the time

It's one of those regional slang terms... it's always been referred to as a tree out here....when I was in Diesel Mechanics school we learned the proper terminology, but go back to our lazy habits :)

I think we're all just kind of grasping at 'what ifs'.... I only mentioned it because a long time ago I had seen the windings go bad on an alternator and produce a similar result that was RPM related... wish we could all be there in person with the truck! :D
 
Re: One last shot... Breaking up!

You have an electromagnetic interference problem (EMI). Ignition systems are notorious for emitting copious amounts of electromagnetic energy under the hood. This energy bounces off sheet metal in the engine compartment and goes all over the place. Wires going to and from sensors can couple in this energy (just like an antenna receives radio waves) and inject current and/or voltage where it isn't supposed to go. These current or voltage problems are seen as false or bad data to the pcm. Check your wires and make sure they are as far as possible from your coil and plug wires. If there are any goofy loops they can couple energy more efficiently (something you don't want). This would explain why you have certain RPMs where these problems occur. They are resonant frequencies of the circuit or loop that is picking up the EMI.

If you cannot find the culpurit circuit you have to do some shielding. Corvettes in the 70's had a metal braid around the plug wires that was grounded to sheild EMI. Todays wires are designed to suppress EMI, but there are no guarantees from the manufacturer how well they perform.

:woot:
 

WyoSyclone

Active member
Re: One last shot... Breaking up!

You have an electromagnetic interference problem (EMI). Ignition systems are notorious for emitting copious amounts of electromagnetic energy under the hood. This energy bounces off sheet metal in the engine compartment and goes all over the place. Wires going to and from sensors can couple in this energy (just like an antenna receives radio waves) and inject current and/or voltage where it isn't supposed to go. These current or voltage problems are seen as false or bad data to the pcm. Check your wires and make sure they are as far as possible from your coil and plug wires. If there are any goofy loops they can couple energy more efficiently (something you don't want). This would explain why you have certain RPMs where these problems occur. They are resonant frequencies of the circuit or loop that is picking up the EMI.

If you cannot find the culpurit circuit you have to do some shielding. Corvettes in the 70's had a metal braid around the plug wires that was grounded to sheild EMI. Todays wires are designed to suppress EMI, but there are no guarantees from the manufacturer how well they perform.

:woot:

I can see your train of thought on this one.... Matt doesn't have any bad data showing up in his data logs, though.... except what looks an ignition module issue on one 'startup' log.

EMI is typically up in the really high frequencies and has a hard time coupling much energy unless you have a big coil of wire wadded up somewhere. I can see a primary emitter having potential in this case, but certainly not secondary emitters. And it is good to keep all those potential high voltage wires isolated.

Those Corvette sheilds were mainly to provide shielding for the radios.. the fiberglass bodies allowed the EMI to radiate directly into the chassis of the radio.

I don't know, you could be right, but I'd be really surprised if it were the case... keep adding to the ideas though..... we're just about out of them! :D
 
Last edited:

WyoSyclone

Active member
Re: One last shot... Breaking up!

Sounds like it's time for a Wrench Session in jersey!!!!

But only if Matt rents a heated garage ;) ..... and maybe provides some beer (only after we fix the problem of course) ..... oh, and some dancing girls would be nice....
 

BoostedSUV

Active member
Re: One last shot... Breaking up!

But only if Matt rents a heated garage ;) ..... and maybe provides some beer (only after we fix the problem of course) ..... oh, and some dancing girls would be nice....

Damn if only I had a larger heated garage....! Everything else is no problem and within a 5 min drive tops and could easily be provided! Hahaha :lol:
 

BoostedSUV

Active member
Re: One last shot... Breaking up!

No dice with alternator unhooked unless it is back feeding through the ground... I had it unplugged, and I had the wires off the post and bolted the wires together. Truck was still breaking up and I was still showing 19 volts at the junction block. I took a video of the VOM but I need to figure out how to post it.
 

SY2455

70's Veteran
Re: One last shot... Breaking up!

You have an electromagnetic interference problem (EMI). Ignition systems are notorious for emitting copious amounts of electromagnetic energy under the hood. This energy bounces off sheet metal in the engine compartment and goes all over the place. Wires going to and from sensors can couple in this energy (just like an antenna receives radio waves) and inject current and/or voltage where it isn't supposed to go. These current or voltage problems are seen as false or bad data to the pcm. Check your wires and make sure they are as far as possible from your coil and plug wires. If there are any goofy loops they can couple energy more efficiently (something you don't want). This would explain why you have certain RPMs where these problems occur. They are resonant frequencies of the circuit or loop that is picking up the EMI.

If you cannot find the culpurit circuit you have to do some shielding. Corvettes in the 70's had a metal braid around the plug wires that was grounded to sheild EMI. Todays wires are designed to suppress EMI, but there are no guarantees from the manufacturer how well they perform.

:woot:

I have seen this problem at a building that I know of. You can go into the building and measure 89 volts without the test leads touching anything and a gap of 12" between the test leads :rotf:.
 

SY2455

70's Veteran
Re: One last shot... Breaking up!

Before you get jump down my throat the MSD box was just installed there and I had the same results prior to. :D

I would be looking at your Alt. That is really high voltage for a stock Alt.. As for your MSD No big deal. If you want to clean it up some, you could mount it inside the fender on a plate like I did to hide it.
 

WyoSyclone

Active member
Re: One last shot... Breaking up!

No dice with alternator unhooked unless it is back feeding through the ground... I had it unplugged, and I had the wires off the post and bolted the wires together. Truck was still breaking up and I was still showing 19 volts at the junction block. I took a video of the VOM but I need to figure out how to post it.

Then I would think the only place the 19 volts could come from is coil leakage...

The battery is supplying the voltage... it's at 12.1 volts at best... to get 19 you need another source... the only other high voltage source I know of is the coil..... anyone else have an idea?
 
Top