SpoolingTurbo6
Donating Member
Has anyone ever put a hardpipe from turbo to intake ... yes no intercooler! ! ! !
and what did you use to do it ls1 elbow?
and what did you use to do it ls1 elbow?
non-intercooled hard-pipe
- Thread starter SpoolingTurbo6
- Start date
JSM
Active member
Re: non-intercooled hard-pipe
I remember that truck at nats also.
O wait, it is now in my driveway, and the pipe was made by me about a year ago.
Is a SMC kit though.
The setup works well actually. It suprised me.
We are going to do some testing with that pipe, and Jeremy's sy with razor kit later this summer.
I remember that truck at nats also.
O wait, it is now in my driveway, and the pipe was made by me about a year ago.
Is a SMC kit though.
The setup works well actually. It suprised me.
We are going to do some testing with that pipe, and Jeremy's sy with razor kit later this summer.
BigBadSmoosh
Picking fights on I-65 since 2013
Re: non-intercooled hard-pipe
I actually think I have a pip that someone used to do this with..
its just sitting in my garage..
I actually think I have a pip that someone used to do this with..
its just sitting in my garage..
SpoolingTurbo6
Donating Member
Re: non-intercooled hard-pipe
Anyone found pics yet?
I think for as much as my truck seems to like the alky, I'm going to try this and see if it helps Intake air temps drop any lower.....If anything I'll pick up a tenth for the 50lbs I removed !!!
These intercooler systems are not light
upper intercooler
lower heat exchanger
ATR front mount
lines
pump and all that water
OK maybe not 50 lbs
Anyone found pics yet?
I think for as much as my truck seems to like the alky, I'm going to try this and see if it helps Intake air temps drop any lower.....If anything I'll pick up a tenth for the 50lbs I removed !!!
These intercooler systems are not light
upper intercooler
lower heat exchanger
ATR front mount
lines
pump and all that water
OK maybe not 50 lbs
SpoolingTurbo6
Donating Member
Re: non-intercooled hard-pipe
Hey Jeff, interested in making one?
JS Manufacturing said:
Hey Jeff, interested in making one?
Re: non-intercooled hard-pipe
you dont need an lt1 elbow!!!! Just route some 3" od alum piping from your turbo to the throttle body and buy a 3" to 4" silicone hose with some t-clamps. DOne.
Btw, hot-air with just alky sucks ass!!!. On my tystang, I ran 19psi with hot-air and razor's alky and trapped 99-101mph in the 1/8th. Then I took off the alky completely and ran a water/air intercooler with some ice water and ran the exact same mph on only 13psi!!! You tell me which is better.
later
Jordan
you dont need an lt1 elbow!!!! Just route some 3" od alum piping from your turbo to the throttle body and buy a 3" to 4" silicone hose with some t-clamps. DOne.
Btw, hot-air with just alky sucks ass!!!. On my tystang, I ran 19psi with hot-air and razor's alky and trapped 99-101mph in the 1/8th. Then I took off the alky completely and ran a water/air intercooler with some ice water and ran the exact same mph on only 13psi!!! You tell me which is better.
later
Jordan
SpoolingTurbo6
Donating Member
Re: non-intercooled hard-pipe
I Think the outlet on the pte 60 is 2" right?
so you would need a 4'' elbow to 2''
I don't know what mc master-car has .............looking
I Think the outlet on the pte 60 is 2" right?
so you would need a 4'' elbow to 2''
I don't know what mc master-car has .............looking
Re: non-intercooled hard-pipe
i usually get my silicone hose through www.hosetechniques.com I doubt they make a 2" to 4" transition. Just get a 2" to 3" transition from turbo to the hard pipe, then get a 3" to 4" transition from the pipe to throttle body. Definately weld a couple beads on the edges and throw on some t-clamps.
The pte 60 might be 2.5" outlet. 2" is freakin small. Talk with Julio, he suggested even a stock intercooler to en-route to smoothe the air flow or something like that. I talked with him for about a half hour about the results of hot-air water injection.
later
Jordan
i usually get my silicone hose through www.hosetechniques.com I doubt they make a 2" to 4" transition. Just get a 2" to 3" transition from turbo to the hard pipe, then get a 3" to 4" transition from the pipe to throttle body. Definately weld a couple beads on the edges and throw on some t-clamps.
The pte 60 might be 2.5" outlet. 2" is freakin small. Talk with Julio, he suggested even a stock intercooler to en-route to smoothe the air flow or something like that. I talked with him for about a half hour about the results of hot-air water injection.
later
Jordan
BigBadSmoosh
Picking fights on I-65 since 2013
Re: non-intercooled hard-pipe
ok, I lied.. the pipe I have was used for a Air-Air IC.. but with a little bit of work.. I don't see why it couldn't be used for a hardpipe..
pics:
http://images.northeastsyty.com/files/IMG_9286.JPG
http://images.northeastsyty.com/files/IMG_9285.JPG
http://images.northeastsyty.com/files/IMG_9287.JPG
ok, I lied.. the pipe I have was used for a Air-Air IC.. but with a little bit of work.. I don't see why it couldn't be used for a hardpipe..
pics:
http://images.northeastsyty.com/files/IMG_9286.JPG
http://images.northeastsyty.com/files/IMG_9285.JPG
http://images.northeastsyty.com/files/IMG_9287.JPG
Re: non-intercooled hard-pipe
i have a pipe to go from turbo to throttlebody . i have the elbow also ! and the adapter from round to oval in silicone ! smaug do you still have the pic of my engine when the ty was in the junk yard ? if so could you host it for him to see ? also i might be interested in the pipe you have if you are getting rid of it .
i have a pipe to go from turbo to throttlebody . i have the elbow also ! and the adapter from round to oval in silicone ! smaug do you still have the pic of my engine when the ty was in the junk yard ? if so could you host it for him to see ? also i might be interested in the pipe you have if you are getting rid of it .
MRKING
New Parts for Old Trucks
Re: non-intercooled hard-pipe
tyson to avoid the guessing game of if it will work better or not , measure your intake temps with the intercooler pump unplugged and see if they are lower than what you get when plugged in .
Thats will achieve the same results without the r&d / wasted time .
tyson to avoid the guessing game of if it will work better or not , measure your intake temps with the intercooler pump unplugged and see if they are lower than what you get when plugged in .
Thats will achieve the same results without the r&d / wasted time .
Christian Dionne
Member
Re: non-intercooled hard-pipe
If you wanna drive up, you can borrow mine. Test for yourself.
If you wanna drive up, you can borrow mine. Test for yourself.
SpoolingTurbo6
Donating Member
Re: non-intercooled hard-pipe
It would for sure get heat soaked by doing that ,,,, thus causing temps to rise!
my theory is that, by the time your' intercooler is heat soaked, the atr, Big shurflow pump, Are not efficient any more (of getting rid of heat quickly). Yes you can spay the Intake with Alk/Water/Piss/whatever.
But you still have a *base temp* heat soaked intercooler.
We (ALKYCONTROL) have done testing on a 900HP Grand National (Cal Hartlines') at SuperChips in Orlando Fl. He had a huge front mounted air2air. We took the intercooler off his car, put six inch pipe Turbo to TB and were able to duplicate his previous dyno pull @900hpThe I A Temp were 110 *f @ 23 psi or soo !!!!
Sorry to get all techy on the subject. Thought I could post a simple Q?
THANKS FOR ALL THE FEEDBACK if anyone can share more info PLEASE by all means,
Tyson
It would for sure get heat soaked by doing that ,,,, thus causing temps to rise!
my theory is that, by the time your' intercooler is heat soaked, the atr, Big shurflow pump, Are not efficient any more (of getting rid of heat quickly). Yes you can spay the Intake with Alk/Water/Piss/whatever.
But you still have a *base temp* heat soaked intercooler.
We (ALKYCONTROL) have done testing on a 900HP Grand National (Cal Hartlines') at SuperChips in Orlando Fl. He had a huge front mounted air2air. We took the intercooler off his car, put six inch pipe Turbo to TB and were able to duplicate his previous dyno pull @900hpThe I A Temp were 110 *f @ 23 psi or soo !!!!
Sorry to get all techy on the subject. Thought I could post a simple Q?
THANKS FOR ALL THE FEEDBACK if anyone can share more info PLEASE by all means,
Tyson
mrking01 said:
SpoolingTurbo6
Donating Member
Re: non-intercooled hard-pipe
Do you have a nozzle mounted in it ?
Christian Dionne said:
Do you have a nozzle mounted in it ?
Re: non-intercooled hard-pipe
If I remember correctly, I heard totally different #'s from Julio about those tests. I remember something like 180*F IAT's at only 18psi. Plus if you think about it, that turbo (88mm) is waaay more efficient at that boost level than the turbo you're running, so the charge temps are alot more lower.
later
Jordan
If I remember correctly, I heard totally different #'s from Julio about those tests. I remember something like 180*F IAT's at only 18psi. Plus if you think about it, that turbo (88mm) is waaay more efficient at that boost level than the turbo you're running, so the charge temps are alot more lower.
later
Jordan
SpoolingTurbo6
Donating Member
Re: non-intercooled hard-pipe
From Razor (Julio)
12 pulls were done, the first tests were done on Isopropyl 70/30 after the third run and had the Iso dialed in at 16 PSI, I dropped the ISO out and replaced with straight methanol. Next pull not changing anything.. the motor picked up 10 RWHP across the board. AFR dropped from 12.1 on iso to 11.9 on methanol. So getting rid of the water made more power...shhh..dont tell the other guys this
Turbo outlet temps were 250 at 16 PSI, you can see the thermocouple wire in the bottom pixs, intake air temps were 140's. So we were getting a reduction of approx 40% air temp.
Next pull we did without alcohol and matched the results of the thermocouple probe and IAT sensor inside the intake. That pull was cut short seeing the temps rise pretty steeply.
Time for more boost.. next pull was to up the boost, we ended up with a not too flat curve due to the way the dyno loads the motor/turbo. 23-25 PSI was were it hovered at. Turbo outlet temps were 300's, IAT was in the 170's. Again the same ratio of 40 %. Motor made 670 rwhp at this point(Super Flow Dyno). I asked Cal how much fuel was being replaced at this point??? His answer was 30%.
Next pull we decided to increase the alcohol and see if the temps could further be reduced.. well the temps came down to the 140's.. but the power dropped of to 610 rwhp. Even tho the AFR stayed at 12.0. So there is a point whereby too much will cuase the loss of RWHP.
Next pull..running out of time.. we dropped the C16 out of the tank.. and ran the car on straight methanol. It produced the same results as the previous test.
Next pull we switch the alky kit off, running on straight methanol, and the IAT temps started coming up as well as the injector DC goes to 100% on 160 lb injectors .. shut it down.
That ended the tests due to time. It was past 9 o'clock at night at this point.
So summary.. what we wanted to achieve was the same results as his V3 front mount which weighs 60+ lbs. His car see's aprox 140's at high boost using the V3. We got 170's. We didnt hit the number. Altho his old smaller front mount would see 170's. So its a good guess that if a smaller high flow stock location can be used... and get a 30 degree temp drop out of it.. from 170's to 140's.. we'd replicate the results of the V3. And save on the weight.
Next thing.. tests were done on C16.. no ill effects of using C16 with methanol. The old saying...when you get to the track, switch the alky kit off and run C16.. doesnt hold water
To run straight methanol as a fuel get ready to double up on the injectors.. twice as much is needed to make the same power.
Guys running smaller IC and alky will note that swapping to larger IC a lot of times yields no improvement. This is something I know first hand. At least there is a test performed documenting why..
I have the FAST runs done on the car, the dyno pulls from Super Chips.. just need to figure a way of showing the results.. need some time. As soon as I have something up, i'll post the link.
Would like to thank Cal Hartline for the use of his car as a guinea pig , and the team at Super Chips in Orlando for allowing us to beat on their dyno after hours..
From Razor (Julio)
12 pulls were done, the first tests were done on Isopropyl 70/30 after the third run and had the Iso dialed in at 16 PSI, I dropped the ISO out and replaced with straight methanol. Next pull not changing anything.. the motor picked up 10 RWHP across the board. AFR dropped from 12.1 on iso to 11.9 on methanol. So getting rid of the water made more power...shhh..dont tell the other guys this
Turbo outlet temps were 250 at 16 PSI, you can see the thermocouple wire in the bottom pixs, intake air temps were 140's. So we were getting a reduction of approx 40% air temp.
Next pull we did without alcohol and matched the results of the thermocouple probe and IAT sensor inside the intake. That pull was cut short seeing the temps rise pretty steeply.
Time for more boost.. next pull was to up the boost, we ended up with a not too flat curve due to the way the dyno loads the motor/turbo. 23-25 PSI was were it hovered at. Turbo outlet temps were 300's, IAT was in the 170's. Again the same ratio of 40 %. Motor made 670 rwhp at this point(Super Flow Dyno). I asked Cal how much fuel was being replaced at this point??? His answer was 30%.
Next pull we decided to increase the alcohol and see if the temps could further be reduced.. well the temps came down to the 140's.. but the power dropped of to 610 rwhp. Even tho the AFR stayed at 12.0. So there is a point whereby too much will cuase the loss of RWHP.
Next pull..running out of time.. we dropped the C16 out of the tank.. and ran the car on straight methanol. It produced the same results as the previous test.
Next pull we switch the alky kit off, running on straight methanol, and the IAT temps started coming up as well as the injector DC goes to 100% on 160 lb injectors .. shut it down.
That ended the tests due to time. It was past 9 o'clock at night at this point.
So summary.. what we wanted to achieve was the same results as his V3 front mount which weighs 60+ lbs. His car see's aprox 140's at high boost using the V3. We got 170's. We didnt hit the number. Altho his old smaller front mount would see 170's. So its a good guess that if a smaller high flow stock location can be used... and get a 30 degree temp drop out of it.. from 170's to 140's.. we'd replicate the results of the V3. And save on the weight.
Next thing.. tests were done on C16.. no ill effects of using C16 with methanol. The old saying...when you get to the track, switch the alky kit off and run C16.. doesnt hold water
To run straight methanol as a fuel get ready to double up on the injectors.. twice as much is needed to make the same power.
Guys running smaller IC and alky will note that swapping to larger IC a lot of times yields no improvement. This is something I know first hand. At least there is a test performed documenting why..
I have the FAST runs done on the car, the dyno pulls from Super Chips.. just need to figure a way of showing the results.. need some time. As soon as I have something up, i'll post the link.
Would like to thank Cal Hartline for the use of his car as a guinea pig , and the team at Super Chips in Orlando for allowing us to beat on their dyno after hours..
SpoolingTurbo6
Donating Member
Re: non-intercooled hard-pipe
We got it down in the 140* range.............. Sorry I was off 30*. Blame it on bad teenage choices ! lol
I guess I'll see what happens.
It's all relative anyway. Just a harmless Q and A
We got it down in the 140* range.............. Sorry I was off 30*. Blame it on bad teenage choices ! lol
I guess I'll see what happens.
It's all relative anyway. Just a harmless Q and A