No spark....help!!!

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bigK

New member
I've been trying to get my Typhoon to fire for the past 2 weeks with no luck. It turns over fine, I have fuel but no spark. I pulled the truck in to my garage almost 2 years ago to update a lot of stuff and when I pulled it in, everything was running fine. I've searched the forum and have found very similar problems and I have tried a lot of the suggestions from those threads with no luck. The best we can tell is the coil is not getting a signal to fire. Here is a list of new items and things we have tried>

New parts:
Accel Billet distributor
MSD coil
Plug wires
plugs
starter
battery

Here's what I have tested or tried:
Double checked all grounds (took them apart and cleaned them)
I have checked all fuses
I have a spare control module that we tried
Took both control modules to parts store and had them tested...they were fine
Put new cap and rotor on (the cap on the new distributor had a loose coil wire terminal)
I replaced the pick up in the distributor
I have tried a second coil
I am getting 12 volts in to the coil, both sides (pink and white wire)
I am getting 12 volts from the coil in to the control module, both sides
I have checked the harness from the coil to the control module for continuity, tested fine
I have replaced both terminals that connect to the coil (they were looking a little rough)
I have tested and checked the pink and white wire coming from the main harness to the coil, I followed these wires as far in to the harness as I could looking for damage, none found. We did a continuity test on the white and pink wires to the gauge cluster, the white wire had 0 ohms but the pink wire had 81 ohms (does anybody know what this should be?)
I have checked for continuity on the 4 wire harness going from the control module to the ECM, they test fine
Ohm tested the coil wire, tested fine
Ohm tested plug wires, tested fine
We tested the injector harness to see if it was firing the injectors while turning over and they are getting a signal.
I took the ECM apart to veiw the board, checking for obvoius damage and nothing was found.
There are no codes stored in the computer
The check engine light is coming on when key is turned to the on position


The only thing I have not changed is the ECM and the chip but I hate to buy a ECM not knowing that this is the problem.

Does anybody have any suggestions or is there anybody in the Coulmbus Ohio area with a computer and/or chip that I can borrow to see if it fires? :D

Thanks for your help guys
 
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WyoSyclone

WyoSyclone

Active member
Re: No spark....help!!!

How are you determining no spark?? Is it no spark, or spark at the wrong time (i.e. dizzy 180 out or several teeth off). I know there are some dizzy cap/plug wire combos where the wire ends are too short to make good contact with the cap. Have you tried testing resistance through the wires while they are connected to the cap?
...just a few ideas....
 
NecroWolf

NecroWolf

lost marbles member
Re: No spark....help!!!

you tried putting a known good stock distributer in it? i have had bad luck with accel. if you have a msd box with the msd coil it will melt the rotor contact button on the cap. mine did this and i had to get a msd cap to fix it and stay fixed.
 
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bigK

New member
Re: No spark....help!!!

Even if it was 180 out you would at least get a back fire do to firing at the wrong time, which would be music to my ears right about now. At least I know how to fix 180 out. We have tested for spark a few ways, by putting a metal screw driver in to the end of a plug wire and also by inserting a spark plug in to the end a plug wire and grounding it. Nothing!! I have not tested the wires while hooked to the cap, I will do that, but I have pressed extra hard to be sure they are making contact, plus you can feel and hear them snap on to the terminal.
 
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bigK

New member
Re: No spark....help!!!

NecroWolf said:
you tried putting a known good stock distributer in it? i have had bad luck with accel. if you have a msd box with the msd coil it will melt the rotor contact button on the cap. mine did this and i had to get a msd cap to fix it and stay fixed.
Click to expand...

I have not put the old distributor back in yet. It has been suggested but do to it being a big pain to do, I am exhausting all options first. Also, there are only two parts in that thing that could go bad and both test fine. I put the stock control module in to it and also replaced the pick up. I'm not apposed to it but I'm trying to justify it.
 
Six-is-Enough

Six-is-Enough

Use to do a little Boost
Re: No spark....help!!!

It really looks like it is a ecm/chip problem. You have covered all the rest of the area's. IMO.
 
B

bigK

New member
Re: No spark....help!!!

New ECM and distributor, still no fire. I can't believe this!! What else is there? I'm thinking a gallon of gas and a match will take care of the fire problem.
 
NecroWolf

NecroWolf

lost marbles member
Re: No spark....help!!!

rotor bug moving? how did you verify no spark? did you pull a wire and do the screw driver trick? or did you just not get a strobe off a timing light? i ask this because i chased a no spark issue for two hours that turned out to be a bad timing light and a bad ignition module.
 
B

bigK

New member
Re: No spark....help!!!

NecroWolf said:
rotor bug moving? how did you verify no spark? did you pull a wire and do the screw driver trick? or did you just not get a strobe off a timing light? i ask this because i chased a no spark issue for two hours that turned out to be a bad timing light and a bad ignition module.
Click to expand...

The rotor is turning, we confirmed by turning it over with the cap off. We tested for spark a couple ways, screw driver in a plug wire, spark plug in the plug wire and no strobe from a timing light.
 
DaveP

DaveP

Active member
Re: No spark....help!!!

ECM has nothing to do with spark. You can leave the ECM on the bench, and there should still be spark when you crank it.

X2 on the Acell distributor can't be trusted.
Be sure the cap hasn't pinched the wires to the pick-up coil, and they are shorted to ground.
Pick-up coil should be 500-1500 ohms.
Double check that you have 12V on pink wire while cranking. (Ign switch)

I've never tried this: (let me know if it works. I think it will.) Take your stock distributor,(or a known good one) and plug it into the pink/wht harness. Use a jumper wire to ground body of distributor to engine. Don't worry about connecting the 4-pin connector. Turn on key. Turn gear on distributor 'sharply' and see if you have spark.

The only thing I'm not positive about in the above test is the ground wire in the 4-pin. I don't know if the module needs that ground to fire the coil or not. I don't think it does. I know it doesn't need the other 3 wires to the ECM to fire the coil. I don't have an extra distributor here, or I would try this first. Sorry.

There are some more ideas. Let us know what you find.
Dave
 
Quickstop [UK]

Quickstop [UK]

Combating adversyty.
Re: No spark....help!!!

The connector from the dissy/distributor to the coil? All those plugged on? Easy to miss under there!
 
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bigK

New member
Re: No spark....help!!!

First, thanks for all the replies.

Andreas said:
Does the tach move while you crank it?
Click to expand...

The tach does not move while cranking, but should it? Either way, I am not getting spark so it won't provide the necessary signal to activate the tach. Could someone please confirm thier tach is moving while cranking.

DaveP said:
ECM has nothing to do with spark. You can leave the ECM on the bench, and there should still be spark when you crank it.

X2 on the Acell distributor can't be trusted.
Be sure the cap hasn't pinched the wires to the pick-up coil, and they are shorted to ground.
Pick-up coil should be 500-1500 ohms.
Double check that you have 12V on pink wire while cranking. (Ign switch)

I've never tried this: (let me know if it works. I think it will.) Take your stock distributor,(or a known good one) and plug it into the pink/wht harness. Use a jumper wire to ground body of distributor to engine. Don't worry about connecting the 4-pin connector. Turn on key. Turn gear on distributor 'sharply' and see if you have spark.

The only thing I'm not positive about in the above test is the ground wire in the 4-pin. I don't know if the module needs that ground to fire the coil or not. I don't think it does. I know it doesn't need the other 3 wires to the ECM to fire the coil. I don't have an extra distributor here, or I would try this first. Sorry.

There are some more ideas. Let us know what you find.
Dave
Click to expand...

I have already put the stock distributor back in and it has not changed anything. But, with the Eccel and stock distributor, I have been very aware of the control module wires and have confirmed on both that they are not getting pinched. The pick up on the stock distributor (in the engine now) tests at 780 ohms. We are getting 12 volts while cranking. Actually it drops to about 11 while cranking but this should be enough to fire. This is with a full charge on the battery and a jumper box.

Quickstop [UK] said:
The connector from the sissy to the coil? All those plugged on? Easy to miss under there!
Click to expand...

That's a new one for me, what's a "sissy"? I have checked the harness to the coil for continuity as well as physically looked at the wires and they test and look fine. I am getting 12volts in and out of the coil so I am sure they are connected. I have even removed the little white foam gasket found at the bottom of the two connectors at the coil to be sure the connecters are dropping far enough in to the coil for a good connection. I have tested the harness from the coil to the control module and it tests fine and is making a good connection.

I'm back at it again today. I'm going to go over it all agian for the 100th time. Just so you know, I am not above witchcraft or black magic or even sacrificing a small animal to get this thing running at this point so if any of you know how to do any of that stuff, let me know, I'll give it a shot.;)
 
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Andreas

Andreas

New member
Re: No spark....help!!!

bigK said:
The tach does not move while cranking, but should it? Either way, I am not getting spark so it won't provide the necessary signal to activate the tach. Could someone please confirm thier tach is moving while cranking.
Click to expand...

Yes it should move. You got no RPM signal from the dist. There's your no spark problem. No RPM signal, no startup.

I run a MSD dist and had similiar prob. The two cableshoes that goes to the magnet were rusted so bad so they just turned to powder when I touched them. They looked good by eye but they were toast.
Soldered the cables directly to the magnet and truck fired up right away.
 
DaveP

DaveP

Active member
Re: No spark....help!!!

bigK said:
The tach does not move while cranking, but should it?
Click to expand...

I wonder if the tach, or the wiring to it, is shorting out the ignition 'primary'?

Remove the connector from the coil that comes from the main harness. Jumper pink to it's respective terminal on the coil. Leave the white wire (tach) disconnected. Give it a try....
 
NecroWolf

NecroWolf

lost marbles member
Re: No spark....help!!!

i had a wierd no start once, literally tore my wiring out trying to find it. i had the dash cluster out of my truck and when i put it back in two leads that connect to the cluster ended up touching and the truck refused to start. it would crank all day and foul plugs but no spark. so if you have had the cluster out you might try pulling it and see if it will start.
 
B

bigK

New member
Re: No spark....help!!!

IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! I can't believe I over looked the problem several times. As I orginally stated in my first post, this truck has been in the garage for 2 years now. About a year ago as I was replacing many parts and among them I purchased replacement coil harness pigtails from NAPA. The originals were a mess, expossed wires some broken, they needed replaced. Anyways, the coil was out at the time so I simply cut the old, put in the new, matching pink to pink and white to white. What I didn't notice was on the pigtail leading to the control module the pink and white wire were backwards in the brand new terminal. Damn you NAPA terminal made in Taiwan! I guess the dude that assembled it must have been color blind or didn't give a shit because he was only making .19 cents for a days work. I put the harness cover back on and never thought twice about it. Well, today I was staring at the coil for the 100th time and notice that the matching colors sticking out from under the harness cover were diagnal from each other. I pulled the wires from the terminal and pushed them in to the coil straight across from each other and it fired right up.
We tested these wires multiple times for continuity and for voltage, they always tested fine. But with out the wire going to the right terminal the signal wasn't getting were it needed to.
Oh well, at least I found it.
Thanks for everyones replies.
 
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