New mods...datamaster files inside.....need help with knock.

[Bundaho]

Ok here is the background on the truck. 40kmiles everything orginal. Truck ran good (no noticable knock). Ran a couple 13.8's @ 97mph (before mods). I now upgraded with the following mods: KB CAI, Ultimate 3bar, KB FPR, Walboro 255, rerouted ic lines, 2 spal fans, 4 gauges (fp, oil p, boost, ic coolent temp.), new cap, rotor, plugs, wires, fuel filter. So the problem i am having is with high boost knock. With the fp set to around 40-45psi i get knock starting around 8psi. The truck still pulls hard and there is no noticable knock (by my ears), but datamaster picks up on it. Attached are the files. Please help out...not sure where to go from here first. Thanks.

http://bundaho.vwmafia.net/Pics/Syclone/Datamaster/45psi fp.uni
http://bundaho.vwmafia.net/Pics/Syclone/Datamaster/less fp 45.uni
http://bundaho.vwmafia.net/Pics/Syclone/Datamaster/test6-1 55psi fp.uni

 

[Tooky]

You should have read the Ultimate instructions more carefully. They recommend a 50 PSI base fuel pressure. (45 PSI fuel pressure is for stock 2-bar chips). Your truck is probably running lean, at least that's my guess.

Try it with 50 PSI FP and let us know how it goes, I think it will run better and hopefully faster!!

 

[Falco]

Can't download the files, but the problem might be on my side. A really heavy thunderstorm passed us, power went away, everything is a bit dizzy.

Anyway, do what Josh said. I've even had to go to 54 PSI to dismiss all the knock with ultimate.

Peace,

 

[Tooky]

Bundaho I looked at all 3 files. I don't know what to tell ya. It looks to me like your boost is building so god-awfully slow that maybe your catalytic converter is clogged or you have some type of major intake/exhaust restriction? Most of the time your boost is like 9-11 PSI. (I did use the 3-Bar switch on DataMaster, too.) Are your wastegate solenoid vacuum hoses in good condition? You could try replacing them, they would be the same as these blue ones in this photo: http://www.techweasel.com/articles/ecu/syebc.jpg

Also I would recommend taking out the 195*F stock thermostat and putting in a Robertshaw brand 160*F thermostat (available at AutoZone for $5). It will help the knock and make your truck run cooler.

In that first datamaster run it says the PROM ID is 00115 but the RPMs are shifting at 3900/4000, is that possibly the Valet program? I dont know exactly how the Ultimate works yet.

Was your boost always this slow to spoolup? A good comparison is, have you ever ridden in another SyTy that is really running well? The difference would be easy to spot. When my truck is running really good and spooling hard, the turbo boost comes on so strong it feels like the truck is going to leap out from under you and you hear the whole dash creak as the pieces are tugged backwards. My truck is almost as stock as they can get, too. I don't even have a chip.

 

[Falco]

FYI, 115 is T1-15, the Vallet should be 4099 if I'm right.

Later,

 

[Bundaho]

I was trying a few fuel pressure combos thinking i might have a faulty gauge. Thats why there is different runs. As far as the spool-up I have never been in another syty so i cannot compare. It does feel like boost raises slowly, but only when the truck doesnt downshift a gear. When the truck doesnt downshift spoolup takes awhile, from a stop (no powerbraking) boost takes a sec then launches hard. Powerbraking leaves no lag. I wasnt going over 9-11psi because i was seeing knock. On the 55psi fp runs i let it spool up all the way to 15psi (spiked to 15.9 before comming back to 15). The intake is new, ic was removed and cleaned with lacquer thinner, new flowmaster muffler, and the turbo to ic hose is in good condition. I am guesing the cat could be a problem, but would it cause this type of knock.

 

[InvisiBill]

You said the truck ran with no noticable knock in stock form. Is that DataMaster or listening? And did you do all those mods at once?

 

[SeattleSy#1255]

i'll spare ya the heart ache and money...now that you got the ultimate chip....get if customized to your truck...don't go hunting for problems and throwing money at it...get a wideband o2 and start customizing or have it done.

 

[smeagol]

For some people and/or trucks, it's not worthwhile to do custom chips and run a wideband 02. Granted, it can only help you tune your vehicle, but I don't think recommending this to every owner is the solution.

don't go hunting for problems and throwing money at it...get a wideband o2 and start customizing or have it done.

So a wideband 02 & custom chips will eliminate the need to solve problems & spend money on Syty's?

 

[Bundaho]

You said the truck ran with no noticable knock in stock form. Is that DataMaster or listening? And did you do all those mods at once?

No noticable knock meaning by my ears. Truck sounds the same to my ears before and after mods. So it might have been knocking before i dont know i never used datamaster on it in stock form. I think ill start by replacing vacume lines. Thats a pretty cheap and easy thing to do. What should i look for after that. I was thinking maybe dirty injectors. The truck was run every day for the first 2 years of its life (approx 30k miles) then sat in a garage and only got about 4k more miles in 8 years. Keep the ideas flowing guys....every little bit helps.

 

[JSM]

So a wideband 02 & custom chips will eliminate the need to solve problems & spend money on Syty's?

That is my theory. I figure I won't have to do plugs ever again, change wires, heck don't even change oil now that I have WB setup.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Like Green said, custom chip, etc won't help you solve the REAL issue behind the problems.

List the mods, and things you have done. Might make it easier for us to determine the next things to try.

 

[Daron]

How about we move this to "How To mod and repair"?

 

[SeattleSy#1255]

now now, lets not take things to literally here GEEEEEEEEEZ! hehe :wink:

let me put this differently--it seems to me that a lot of people have knock issues. often hearing i replaced this and that, i did wires, plugs etc. 10 times and i still get 8* of knock. Then if they get a chance (which not many do) to get the chip completey custom to there truck--it helps out a lot...-----------ya, its only one issue of a million, but is one (custom chip & Wideband 02) that many can't play around with, thus they spend a lot of money and time on the other stuff (which may have been issues to--but may not have as well)...

basically its just not something that all people get the chance to play around with but could be a major knock issue to there trucks.

 

[Bundaho]

Ok i checked the vacume hoses on the boost solenoid and they look to be fine. I did come up with couple ideas. These are things that would have to be upgraded eventually to get where i wanna get so i have some options. First option is the ignition system (maybe all msd stuff not sure about brands yet), second option is maybe replace a few sensors (ie o2 or knock sensors, third option is replace the injectors and do a good cleaning of the fuel tank (or get a fuel cell). My buddies father (owner of a machine shop and former dragracer) asked me about the sock on the fuel pump i replaced. I told him it was very dark brown (very brown) he thinks it might be possible for rust to have maybe clogged the injectors a little. So i have a few options when money comes around. In the next week or so ill be putting in a 160degree thermostat so ill see what that does. If you guys have any more ideas let me have them. THanks again for all the help.

 

[smeagol]

160 deg thermostat should have been one of the first things you did. It will definitely help with removing knock retard.

Didn't mean to tear into ya Seattle, just that sure a custom chip could lower knock, but it's just like any other band-aid out there. Fix the source, don't automatically tell someone a custom chip would help.

Bundaho, you should put the stock chip back in while you are fiddling around. You never got a baseline with Datamaster on the stock setup. Fix your knock problem, get it running strong, good coolant & IC temps, low knock, seat of the pants feeling good, then start with the chip & more boost etc etc.

There are many more sources of knock than clogged injectors; don't spend any more money than you have to - the 160 thermostat may get you halfway there. Raising the fuel pressure may be all the rest you need.


I just looked at one run (downloads were amazingly slow). Coolant temps were 200+ (way too hot), and your 02's were lean when it was knocking (the one run at least). Definitely get a 160 deg thermostat, and take some more runs.

 

[Bundaho]

In looking at my datamaster files more i noticed that my Lterm is always in the green (lean), even if i am getting a DTC code saying i am running rich. Also in the boost runs i did.....the injector duty cycle was above 85% alot. Any more thoughts on this subject from anyone.

 

[smeagol]

Don't worry about those readings for now.. get your coolant temps down and take some more runs (take things slow, if all looks good, get into it more). Make sure your fuel pressure is at 50 to start, and that your coolant temps are down (if I didn't mention that).