NEW 700r4

[#2875]

just a little FYI:

i check this site from time to time and have PMed a couple of people who own older raptors and are happy. my 700 is mostly stock therefore i have a transmission fund for the day it snaps and i have to replace it. i realize that some people are going to the 4l80 but i want to keep my options open especially since the 80e is so friggin expensive and heavy.

ANYWAY most of you have already been there (i did a search) but here is the link and a cut and paste description of the level 4 tranny. cost is less than half of an 80 conv. i like the part where it says 4X4 and up to 700 ft lbs of tq. it comes with a 6 month unlimited mile warranty.

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/highperf700r4.htm#Stage4

This is the transmission that couldn't be built until now, because the parts weren't available. As the 700R4 transmission becomes more and more popular, stronger parts come on the market. This transmission has every heavy duty / high performance part on the market plus all of the tricks we've learned in our twelve years of building high performance / heavy duty 700R4 transmissions. This is the strongest 700R4 transmission that can be built bar-none. If it doesn't have it, it can be added as an extra. Here are some of the parts that come as standard on the 700 Mega Raptor. You get everything that comes with the 700 Raptor plus the Torque Drive Package, Torque Master Package and the five pinion OEM GM planet gears. This transmission is good for any type of heavy duty / performance use up to 700 horse power / 700 foot pounds of torque using pump gasoline, 4WD, towing, street rods, drag racing, big block, one tons and others.

 

[QUICK STORM]

Re: NEW 700r4

i still like the 80e, but hey thats just me.

 

[MRKING]

Re: NEW 700r4

If you are good with diy stuff , you can swap to a 80e for a little over 3k .

 

[George Blake]

Re: NEW 700r4

I'm not hammering the product but you need to read down where it says, reduce capacities for forced induction AND 4x4. They can be built to go in a 4x4 but a 4x4 app won't take 700 foot pounds. Your turbocharged, AWD syclone will eat it. Just don't go crazy with it and you'll be happy. That trans is good for about 500 foot pounds if you don't get on it all the time. This has been covered before.

 

[#2875]

Re: NEW 700r4

i'm the king of DIY but i'm also slightly under the point of necessitating the heavier tranny. also i finally found a sweet but pricey converter for 700 and i'd like to reuse it.

If you are good with diy stuff , you can swap to a 80e for a little over 3k .

 

[George Blake]

Re: NEW 700r4

I sell the kits to do them up the way mine are and offer support putting them together as well in my forum. Are you buying the trans or the kit to build it yourself? If your buying a "kit" from them, good luck getting any help. Make sure your using a NEW converter or a rebuilt one. Not a USED converter. Bypass the stock cooler. Don't try to flush it, it's not worth it. Flush the lines with carb cleaner and blow compressed air through them. Put a Magnefine or Filtrans filter on the line where it used to go to the stock cooler on the BOTTOM. The filter in the trans is JUST a pickup. This is the out line. Run a NEW external cooler up front. Don't mount it to the A/C condenser. It will heat the cooler up. Mount an aluminum 1"x1/8" bar using the bolt from the hood latch support and run a bolt into the unused bolt hole on the passenger side opening of the radiator support and mount the cooler to it. That way, air flows through it freely. Mount the filter before the cooler.
The 700 lube circuit goes from the torque converter, to the lube out, to the lower radiator fitting, from the top radiator fitting back to the trans.
The universal TV cables do not fit our trucks. Longest one is 52". Ours is 56". GM doesn't make ours anymore. There is a steel braided version available but you must use a trans pressure gauge when installing it so it functions correctly.
YOU MUST USE A PRESSURE GAUGE WHEN INSTALLING A TRANS TO MAKE SURE YOU'VE GOT EVERYTHING HOOKED UP RIGHT AND SET RIGHT!!!!
BTW, for the guys that buy their parts from other places and then call me wanting to know how to install them......I don't do that anymore. 4 hours last week on the phone with a guy who bought his parts from "Bulkparts" pretty much sealed it. They sent him the wrong guide and some of the parts were for a 200-4r. It took me a while to figure out what was wrong.
Since your reusing your converter (after a failure?), send it off to have it cut apart, cleaned out, welded up and balanced. Don't risk a failure from a piece of steel/aluminum beating up the inside of the converter.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Re: NEW 700r4

i'm the king of DIY but i'm also slightly under the point of necessitating the heavier tranny. also i finally found a sweet but pricey converter for 700 and i'd like to reuse it.

its only what, 100? 150 pounds difference? I would certainly give up a tenth for reliability :2cents:

 

[George Blake]

Re: NEW 700r4

The 4L80E is heavier. 30 pounds I think.
The internals, though, the way they work makes the difference in weight neglegible. If you understood how the inside of the 700 worked and how the inside of the 80e worked, you would quickly realize that the weight difference means nothing.
In the 700, the entire geartrain spins to make you move for 1st.It's HEAVY.
2nd gear, the band has to bring to a screaching halt, parts moving at high rpms. 3rd come on, band releases and the ENTIRE geartrain is spinning again.
4th comes on and the band is grabbed again.

80e is set up so that the band only engage in reverse and manual low and 2nd. The band RELEASES when you go into 3rd. It doesn't grab anything that's already moving unless your using it to slow you dow. 80e gets a leg up on that one.
Forward drum gets you going in 1st.
2nd gear clutches have no drum. They are in the case. Center support piston pushes on these clutches to apply them. These "grab" the 34 element sprag. That sprag is huge. Much bigger than the tiny thing GM put in the 700s. 3rd comes on and the clutches in the direct drum grab. OD comes on.....The overdrive "crown" is aluminum and doesn't spin. The clutches in this "crown" grab the overrun drum to hold the planetary housing stationary. The 80e isn't spinning it's entire geartrain at every gear change like a 700 does.

Again, this makes the weight difference nothing on the rotating assembly. All the initial testing done by GM was with a 65 pound converter. The aftermarket converters weigh the same or less than a stock 700 converter. This was where the weight was an issue. It was putting 47 pounds of additional mass on the rotating assembly. The 350's and 4.3's couldn't spin it and make it streetable.

The difference in weight of the 700 vs the 4L80e can be accomidated for by removing the spare tire and jack when going down the 1/4 mile. That's it.

The 700 was used in all those applications because it was "cheaper" to build than a 4L80e(GM could make more money on a vehicle if it had a 700) and they didn't have the technology(nor desire since they made money with the 700) to make a converter light enough to be used in those applications. GM watches every bolt, washer and nut that goes into a vehicle. If you don't think they were saving money on the 700s, your just kidding yourself.

This is why a 4L80e propelled an otherwise untouched Sy down the strip faster. The shift characteristics of the components are better suited and the gearing is better suited for a turbo charged, high torque at low rpm app....like a syty.

I get so sick of completely unsubstantiated regurgitation of "the 4L80e is just too heavy to be a performance trans."

Yes, it's expensive, NO it's not a hinderance to performance.

 

[phoonTy]

Re: NEW 700r4

Reason enough for me to start saving now for an 80E conversion. To me, it's worth the conversion even on a mostly stock truck like mine. Hopefully by the time I'm ready for the conversion, I'll be set up for E85 too. :tup:

Should keep my truck on the road for a long time. :tup:

As always, great info George.

 

[QUICK STORM]

Re: NEW 700r4

you think of the guys that are on their 3,4,5 and on up 700 build try and out weigh that to 1 80e and i think their is no question. i'm a person who believes firmly in PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE.

 

[#2875]

Re: NEW 700r4

i read back through this whole thread and can't find where anyone mentions that the 80 is too heavy to be a performance trans or that it is a hindrance in performance. its definately better than a 700 nobody is arguing that.

for all those curious according to an old post by JS Manuf. the 80e is 70 lbs heavier.

I missed this. I'm so sick of seeing this smeared all over the BB's on the internet. The 4L80E is heavier. 30 pounds I think.

I get so sick of completely unsubstantiated regurgitation of "the 4L80e is just too heavy to be a performance trans."

Yes, it's expensive, NO it's not a hinderance to performance.

 

[George Blake]

Re: NEW 700r4

i'm the king of DIY but i'm also slightly under the point of necessitating the heavier tranny. also i finally found a sweet but pricey converter for 700 and i'd like to reuse it.

Yes you made reference to the "HEAVY" trans. Your not the only one. People on other boards do it as well. It is not an issue.

for all those curious according to an old post by JS Manuf. the 80e is 70 lbs heavier.

He didn't say it was 70 pounds heavier. I was wrong it's 40 pounds. Here's the actual quote:

To avoid any guesses today we weighed both transmissions.

the 4l80e is 40lbs heavier.

700r4 is 134lbs
4l80e 174 lbs.

I've had both empty cases in my hands and the majority of it is in the aluminum case itself.
Still the weight of sy spare and jack. Semantics. Again, not an issue due to the operational characteristics of the trans.
Read those instal tips I gave you above when you put in your Raptor trans. They will save you a LOT of headache.

 

[#2875]

Re: NEW 700r4

here is the quote i was referring to. maybe he was including the fluid since you kind of need that. the 80 holds more correct?

Convertor is actually a 10" but minor details.

Obviously the gearing change in 1st changed things also, probably for better.
I am also shifting into OD around 90mph, as with his motor it likes to be loaded.

So saying it doesn't rob more horsepower alone probably is a mis leading statement. A more correct statement would be any horsepower lost by the 80e I was more than able to make up for in shifting, gearing. This is with stock 5.7L chevy shift points. I still want to drop them another 2-300 rpm.

Weight difference is about 70lbs. Crimson is correct, you don't want to lift one yourself.

from:

http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?p=250293

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: NEW 700r4

here is the quote i was referring to. maybe he was including the fluid since you kind of need that. the 80 holds more correct?



from:

http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?p=250293

That was was Jeff estimating the weight, this the thread he made when it put on a scale...

http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31658&highlight=

 

[JSM]

Re: NEW 700r4

I am getting quoted, sweet I think.

These #'s

the 4l80e is 40lbs heavier.

700r4 is 134lbs
4l80e 174 lbs.

Were taken directly from the Scale at Jeremy's shop. With his old 700 and the 80e George built same day, same weather, same scale.

This quote

Weight difference is about 70lbs. Crimson is correct, you don't want to lift one yourself.

Is taken from just memory. If you trust my memory your doing much better than anybody else.

 

[#2875]

Re: NEW 700r4

good to know. thanks. do you know if that is dry weight? the thread reads without converter but doesn't mention fluid.

 

[George Blake]

Re: NEW 700r4

I found where you saw the 70 pound deal. It was taken out of context. Jeff and Crimson were talking about the torque converter. The "lightweight" version of a 4L80E converter is 65 pounds and the regular is 72 pounds. The stock 4L80E converter alone weighs as much as our transfer case. If you see ANY HP loss figures quoting GM, it is refering to testing using a stock ~70 pound converter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson93Ty
People have been told forever how much the 4L80E robs. Those huge 75 HP robbing numbers are based on a 65 pound torque converter. Jeremy's truck has a 9" converter in it. I've worked on both the 700 and the 4l80e. There was a discussion on the 4L80E where most of this was talked about already. If I read correctly, Jeremy's truck ran 2 tenth quicker running less boost with the 4L80E than he did with the 700 at the Nats previously. Is that correct? Was it the gearing? There was obviously some tradeoff somewhere because the huge HP loss that I've always heard about never materialized.



Convertor is actually a 10" but minor details.

Obviously the gearing change in 1st changed things also, probably for better.
I am also shifting into OD around 90mph, as with his motor it likes to be loaded.

So saying it doesn't rob more horsepower alone probably is a mis leading statement. A more correct statement would be any horsepower lost by the 80e I was more than able to make up for in shifting, gearing. This is with stock 5.7L chevy shift points. I still want to drop them another 2-300 rpm.

Weight difference is about 70lbs. Crimson is correct, you don't want to lift one yourself.

1 quart of trans fluid weighs about 2 pounds.
It will vary how much you use depending on converter diameter, cooler line arrangement and size of external cooler.
I've done some using 8, others use 12 quarts. It'll vary. Again, if you use a "published" reference on the 4L80e for fluid, it will reference a full converter that already weighs 65-72 pounds dry.