Need help with sy that won't start

hawgley

Donating Member
I need help with a recently acquired Syclone. I think I will have to give some background on it so you completely understand what I'm up against. So here we go..

I am a total noob to the SyTy's but do have a mechanical background.

My grandson is in the Navy and bought this truck in June of 2008 while stationed in Virginia. It is #1757 and when he bought it, it had 19000 miles on it and was nearly perfect. See post http://www.syty.net/forums/showthrea...highlight=1757. He had it a few months and decided he wanted to start modding it so it would go fast and jump high... lol After his father and me both begged him to leave it stock he went ahead and did the mods. He installed a Turbonetics Turbo, RPM 38mm WG, chip, injectors (I think 55#), 3" downpipe and exhaust, Walbro 255LTR fuel pump and reg, AEM Tru Boost Gauge type controller, and some other stuff. Well after he and his friends completed all the installations the truck would not start. He has since removed all the above except the FP and reg and put the stock stuff back on and it still wouldn't start. So he gave up and continued to make payments on it while it set. In the 6 years he had it it was driven 4000 miles as it now has slightly under 23000 miles on it. He was deployed and away for some of that time and just never got back on the truck. He was recently transferred to California and had no where to store the truck and I traded him one of my Harleys for it. He also bought a 2600 - 2800 stall converter that was never installed and still in the box. So now I need some advise from y'all..

The truck has been setting for several years. I drained all the lubricants and replaced them with new, installed new battery and some hoses, new plugs, etc. I cranked the engine to distribute the oil but was not expecting it to start because there are still some vacuum hose issues. The current problem is it is not getting any fuel. After searching the forum I learned how to test the pump with the terminal near the distributor. I get a clicking/clunking sound from the fuel pump but it doesn't run and I have no fuel pressure. I have this strange feeling that the reason the truck wouldn't start after all the mods is because it wasn't getting fuel. I searched the forums again and found the directions on removing the truck bed and replacing the pump. Prior to going all that trouble I wanted to check and see if anyone has any ideas. When I use the test connector should I get fuel pressure at the rail? I don't.. Do I need the ignition on or anything to get pressure to the rail or does the test terminal bypass any regulators, switches, etc? Is there any other things I could try prior to removing the bed and swapping out the old/new Walbro pump? Any other advise is also welcomed. I will prolly be getting rid of all the performance stuff if anyone is interested.

Sorry about the long rambling on post but I thought you may need the background info to help me out. Thanks in advance for any and all help..
 

Brwndrvr05

Member
Re: Need help with sy that won't start

You have all stock parts back on and stock chip is back in place? Did you check the fuel pump relay and make sure its getting power and functioning?
 

hawgley

Donating Member
Re: Need help with sy that won't start

Nope, that's why I'm asking if I should get fuel pressure when using the FP test connection.I don't hear anything from the pump when turning on the ignition but I do with the test lead..
 

Brwndrvr05

Member
Re: Need help with sy that won't start

If the pump is working you will get FP. Try swaping the relays on the the firewall and see if that help. If not test for power on the fuel pump relay with ignition on
 

randy merritt

Donating Member
Re: Need help with sy that won't start

I do believe that the test wire goes straight to the fuel pump and bypasses any relays. I would verify this with others that know more than I, but it sounds like you have a bad fuel pump, or maybe it was wired incorrectly.
 

Sydwinder905

New member
Re: Need help with sy that won't start

x2 on checking the relay. Figure out which wire feeds the fuel pump and check for voltage key on engine off. I've never been a fan of GM's test terminals, in my mind it just throws another variable into the equation. If you've got battery voltage at the relay to the fuel pump and still no fuel pump operation, check your fuel pump ground. The grounds to the frame tend to corrode and cause erroneous fuel pump operation.
 

DaveP

Active member
Re: Need help with sy that won't start

You're getting bad advice. Except from Randy because he's right, but even then suggests wait for some other input.

The test terminal near the distributor goes straight to the fuel pump. No relays, ignition off or on, nothing makes any difference. If there is 12 Volts at the test terminal, there will be 12 volts at the fuel pump, and it should run unless there's a bad connection, or pad pump. You say the fuel pump clicks, but doesn't run. And there is no pressure. You have a bad fuel pump. I assume you are using a mechanical test gauge on the fuel rail to measure fuel pressure.

When you change the pump, if you get a parts-store fuel pump, be sure it is for a VIN W 1993 S-Blazer 4.3. If you use the Sy's VIN, you will be handed the wrong fuel pump. Also I suggest changing the in-tank wire harness. Airtex makes one, it's about $15, but may need to be special ordered. At least check the connector at the top of the tank, INSIDE the tank. Pull the connector off and look at the plastic alongside the grey wire. If the plastic is burned, don't reuse it, wait for a new one to come in.

There is a 2" section of hose inside the tank between the pump and metal line. Another possibility could be that the pump is running, but they used the incorrect hose for in-tank service, and it has split from being immersed in ethanol-laced fuel. Jumper the pump at the test terminal, and listen to the filler neck with the cap removed. If you hear fuel "splashing" this could be the problem.

One thing with a Syclone is that you can test the pump and lines when you're finished with the pump change out before putting the bed back on.

Recap: Jumper the test terminal, there should be a running pump, and fuel pressure. If no + take the bad off and attack the fuel pump.
 

hawgley

Donating Member
Re: Need help with sy that won't start

Thanks for all the response and a special thanks to DaveP for the detailed response. I was already convinced that the pump was the problem but since it had a new Walbro 255LTR installed (although 2 or 3 years ago) and never used and the fact that I get a light clunk more so than a click from the pump I was hoping I may have been overlooking something. It actually sounds like the pump tries to run but is locks up or that the pump is actually moving when power is supplied. I also get a pretty substantial spark when connecting the wire from the fp test connector to the positive post on the battery. Almost like it is grounding out. Perhaps it was just a bad install. Yes I am using a mechanical test gauge on the fuel rail to measure the no non-existent fuel pressure. So are the Walbro 255LTR any better than the stock pumps? If so I will just order one of those since I will need to wait for a in tank wire harness anyway. I really prefer not to have to go thru this very often... I'm an OLD lazy man!!!

Thanks everyone..
 

SY2932

Administrator
Re: Need help with sy that won't start

DaveP is right on with his info with regards to testing the fuel pump. Another thing that I would check first is to make sure that the ground wire was reconnected after the fuel pump was replaced. If it ran before all the mods were done including a fuel pump, something probably got overlooked. If your pump is truly DOA, check out this post here for some tips.

With regards to the 2" hose that replaces the "pulsator" DaveP mentioned, this is what you might be dealing with if you can hear the pump running but getting no fuel pressure:

rotted_fuel_hose_1.jpg


There was an issue several years ago with people getting the wrong hose with fuel pumps. Be sure to get fuel line that is spec SAE J30R10, it can and be IMMERSED in gasoline. SAE J30R9 which is for inline use, is only meant to have gasoline on the *inside* NOT the outside.
 
Last edited:

DaveP

Active member
Re: Need help with sy that won't start

Order a Walbro from Ron Greggory. Long time SyTy dude, although he doesn't participate on the board any longer. http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/html/fpapps.html

There are Chinese counterfeit Walbros out there. Lots of them. Purchase from a reputable supplier like Ron G. I got Chinese counterfeits from Summitt, even though I specifically asked about their source when ordering. Your truck may have a knock-off in it, hence why it has failed with no time on it.

\My Typhoon has a Walbro I purchased from Ron in 1997. Still running, tank has never been out since, and almost 100K miles and 17 years since.
 

hawgley

Donating Member
Re: Need help with sy that won't start

GREAT info guys....... Thanks!!

FP ordered from Ron and advised him he was recommended by DaveP at SyTy..

His sy has been setting for a year.. His son broke the tranny and he is having issues getting the new one to shift..

Really nice guy and not far from me..
 

hawgley

Donating Member
Re: Need help with sy that won't start

Thanks for the info leadfoot..

I ordered a new fp and while waiting for it to arrive I did some additional inspections. I discovered the ground cable from the fuel fill housing was in fact not hooked up.. I ran a jumper from it to the frame but sill had the same results. I'm hoping the fp will be here today and I can get it installed this weekend. .I also changed out all the vacuum lines so I shouldn't have an issue with that.. I wanna get this suka runnin...
 

hawgley

Donating Member
Re: Need help with sy that won't start

Well it was a good day that really sucked!!!!!

I got my son and grandson to come over to help me install new pump.. Got it installed and it would work with test terminal but not by ignition. Found ECMB fuse blown and replaced it with a 25 amp and still no go. DAMN!! Swapped relays and still no go... Sent grandson to parts store and picked up new relay and bingo pump runs. Both relays were bad.. Get bed installed and then while going over everything with the boys realized they did not remove the pulsator... DAMN!!! Well its to late now, I'm not taking the bed back off for that unless it really gives me some grief.

Is that what sucked???? NO, not hardly.. While lifting off the bed my son somehow broke the cladding over the drivers side rear wheel. I don't mean cracked it or kinda damaged it. I mean broke the $#@* out of it.. Now where am I gonna get one of those.... So I may get it running in the next few days but it is gonna look like shit!!!!
 

DaveP

Active member
Re: Need help with sy that won't start

Uh, yeah. You can't lift the bed by the cladding, and there's no way to lift it with the cladding installed. The rear arches come off in about 2 minutes each. Too bad no one noticed that.

I lift the beds off with my engine hoist, or a come-along to the rafters of the shop. Rig a line to the 4 corner tie-down rings. The fore-aft C/G is about inline with the rear of the wheel wells because the weight of the tailgate moves it aft. Put a furniture pad between the bed and rear of cab. Disconnect the lighting wiring in the LR corner, and the license plate light sockets. Lift the bed so the front cladding clears the tires, and roll the truck forward to work on the pump.

The pump comes with a piece of connecting hose in the kit. Not difficult to figure out where it goes. Too bad they didn't, but it will probably be fine with the pulsator.

Change the ECM B fuse to a 15 so you don't burn any wiring up. Glad you got it running.
 

Slyclone

Well-known member
Re: Need help with sy that won't start

Sorry to hear about the bed. If your in dire straits for a cladding I just see on a rear eye brow or bed arch cladding listed on ebay with a tab broke which appears to very repairable. I am positive he is member here and I spoke with him last night in regards to something I was searching for.

I too made the same mistake and did not install the small tube included in my kit. I misplaced it and it bugged me out. I called aeromotive about the part and they laughed at me because I told them I wanted them to send me the tube. They made a really bad suggestion which was use some hose or regular stuff and you can clearly see what will happen if you don't use the stuff rated for gas and oil.

In some cases the newer higher flowing pumps will draw more current and it is reccomended to feed pump with better power cables. Racetronix makes a kit called a hot wire for fuel pump. I recently installed one on my truck but have not had a chance to run it. It is a better upgrade as it puts fuel pump on its own circuit not blowing ecm A.





Well it was a good day that

really sucked!!!!!

I got my son and grandson to come over to help me install new pump.. Got it installed and it would work with test terminal but not by ignition. Found ECMB fuse blown and replaced it with a 25 amp and still no go. DAMN!! Swapped relays and still no go... Sent grandson to parts store and picked up new relay and bingo pump runs. Both relays were bad.. Get bed installed and then while going over everything with the boys realized they did not remove the pulsator... DAMN!!! Well its to late now, I'm not taking the bed back off for that unless it really gives me some grief.

Is that what sucked???? NO, not hardly.. While lifting off the bed my son somehow broke the cladding over the drivers side rear wheel. I don't mean cracked it or kinda damaged it. I mean broke the $#@* out of it.. Now where am I gonna get one of those.... So I may get it running in the next few days but it is gonna look like shit!!!!
 

hawgley

Donating Member
Re: Need help with sy that won't start

Thanks for the heads up DaveP..

Slyclone I'm old and vision is not the greatest but I cannot fine the ebay listing for the drivers side eye brow.. I see one for the passengers side. If you have a link or know the poster can you please hook me up.. Thanks a bunch
 

Slyclone

Well-known member
Re: Need help with sy that won't start

Hey sorry, your vision may be correct- As mine may be off that appears to be pass. side.

He did mention he is cleaning up. Maybe he does have the other part.
 

Baythan

SY2TY2SY2TY
Re: Need help with sy that won't start

While lifting off the bed my son somehow broke the cladding over the drivers side rear wheel. I don't mean cracked it or kinda damaged it. I mean broke the $#@* out of it.. Now where am I gonna get one of those....

Fear not. Put a WTB ad in the "parts/trucks wanted" section (in case people aren't following this thread). People have cladding, some of it even NOS.

Ain't always cheap, but it's out there. Our great vendor Sportmachines likely has one.

:tup:
 
Top