Motor Gurus Step Right In. UPDATE!!!

Z SKI

Z SKI

Donating Member
I need some help from the pros.

A few days ago I was removing the lower intake to head bolts on my motor to replace them with stainless bolts and studs. I noticed that there was old collant corrosion on the old bolts and in the holes. This told me that there was a leak in the front and rear of the manifold by the water passages.

I thought, no big deal as I have read that you have to use some RTV around those ports to insure a leak free seal. So I ordered a new set of intake gaskets so I could do it the right way.

This is when it starts to get interesting. As I was chasing the bolt holes in the heads I noticed that the oil that was sitting in a small crevice where the block, head gasket, and head come together in the front corners right below where the oil drain passage exits from the roller rockers portion of the heads was migrating through the head gasket and following it along and collecting at the bottom outside of where the head meets the block.

So did i interupt the seal there by removing the intake manifold which now lets a little oil through? Which could possible be fixed by putting the intake back on?? Or do i need to pull the heads RTV those areas or install new head gaskets??

The only thing I am scared about is that my motor has an o-ringed copper gasket and honestly I dont know squat about them.

Any help will be greatly appreciated. And I can provide pics if my descriptions suck:tup:

Thanks,
 
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Z SKI

Z SKI

Donating Member
Re: Motor Gurus Step Right In.

Re: Motor Gurus Step Right In.

DaveP said:
I'm not following. Is the oil able to get outside the engine?? Or is it following the gasket, and coming back out in the valley? If it's the second, your OK.

Want me to come take a look-see?
Click to expand...

Yo Dave, Its getting outside the motor and running down the edge of the head gasket and collecting at the bottom of the head on the outside. Yes if you could cruise by and give me your opinion that would be great.

And thanks again for your help with the SS. Its a blast to drive again:tup:

Ill call you tomorrow to touch basis with you.

See ya,
 
Don W.

Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: Motor Gurus Step Right In.

Re: Motor Gurus Step Right In.

I'd very much like to know what's going on here when you make your visit. If I read this correctly it sounds like a head gasket failure of some sort between the upper block and head. To the front of the water outlet area. (For lack of better terminology.)
 
Z SKI

Z SKI

Donating Member
Re: Motor Gurus Step Right In.

Re: Motor Gurus Step Right In.

Well Dave P came by and we pulled a head. It seems that the head gasket did fail resulting in a small oil leak where the oil drains out of the head into the block. The gaskets that were used were flatout racing gaskets and i can say i am not pleased with them. They are supposed to be rubber coated to help keep the fluids where they are supposed to be and it did not work. The origional owner also did not put any pipe sealant on the studs which was letting some small collant leaks out of the holes.

I have been looking at head gaskets since i am not going to buy another set of "crapout" head gaskets. I talked with SCE about there titan head gaskets and it seems like they will fit the bill and work well. Since my block is o-ringed that looks like my only option.

I would love to run cometic head gaskets but am not sure if my block can/should be decked any more. It apperas that the wire o rings are about .040" in diameter which puts me at a .020" ammount that needs to be removed via decking. So does this sound reasonable? Is there any problems with running a .060" thick head gasket vs. the .040" thick head gasket that is in there now?

Let me know guys so i can get the ball rolling.

Thanks in advance,
 
Z SKI

Z SKI

Donating Member
Re: Motor Gurus Step Right In.

Re: Motor Gurus Step Right In.

SY2455 said:
If you run the thicker gasket, it will lower your compression, I just can't remember the formula. Do you know what you have now for compression?

This may help you.

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/compstaticcalc.html
Click to expand...

Thanks Lloyd, Ill check that out.

DaveP said:
Don: It appears that the solid copper gasket just didn't seal very well in the area of the drain-back holes. I have no first-hand experience with copper head gaskets, so I called my machinist that does.

Bob said they hold a lot of compression, and take a lot of abuse, but that they don't seal oil and coolant very well. The off-shore boat engines he used them in would come in after a race with oil and water running down the side of the block, and puddeling in the bilge. He feels they are 'old school' and modern sandwich gaskets are now the only way to go. Curiously, he doesn't do anything on the surface finish [finer] than what he has been doing for decades. No failures because of the finish quality.



Lloyd: Paul was asking if there are any opinions on running a .060 gasket vs a .040 gasket that it has now in the way of reliability, quench, etc. His strategy would be to deck the block .020 to eliminate the o-ring groove, and then make up the removed material with additional gasket thickness.

Net compression would thus remain the same.

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

Right on the money as always:tup:
 
Z SKI

Z SKI

Donating Member
Re: Motor Gurus Step Right In. UPDATE!!!

Come on motor builders, what do you guys think???
 
Z SKI

Z SKI

Donating Member
Re: Motor Gurus Step Right In. UPDATE!!!

SY2455 said:
Dave has always been on top of things and that why we need people like him. Somehow I miss the part about decking the block to make up the difference. Dave or Paul could something like this work ?

1. http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/hardcore/0307pon_ringing/photo_10.html

2. What about using hylomar sealant around the water and oil ports?
Click to expand...

Thanks Lloyd, That is some good info but i kinda want to get away from copper head gaskets if i can. I really dont want to have to re-tourqe the heads after a heat cycle. Call me lazy but i dont want to tear everything appart to re-torque them when i can get Cometic's and torque them once and forget it.
Thanks,
 
Z SKI

Z SKI

Donating Member
Re: Motor Gurus Step Right In. UPDATE!!!

So I talked to a Cometic representative who told me I can file the stainless o-rings down flush with the block and get the overall finish of the deck nice and smooth and I will be good to go for running cometics. How does this sound to you guys?

I checked my deck finish and it is allready pretty smooth, how would i go about getting it to a 50RA finish at home? The Cometic rep. said that a very very fine file would get it to where it needs to be. Does this sound accurate?

Let me know,
 
4C FED

4C FED

Absolutum Dominium
Re: Motor Gurus Step Right In. UPDATE!!!

You're talking about a lot of time spent filing.
Filing on a motor that is already assembled no less.

Bite the bullet, go with the copper & re-torque them.
 
Quickstop [UK]

Quickstop [UK]

Combating adversyty.
Re: Motor Gurus Step Right In. UPDATE!!!

don't file them at home - I don't know how you would deck your block without getting so much crud in there that it would trash your engine.

if you are going to do that then get it machined properly.
 
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