Looking for some tuning Help

BoostedSUV

Active member
hey fellas,

Truck is finally all back together and running and I want to start concentrating on getting it tuned properly. Ever since I started modifying the truck it's never idled smooth, cruised well, and judging by the main bearings it wasn't any good under boost either... lol

I have everything to run code 59 (tunerPro, Datamaster, Ostrich, chip burners, etc) I just don't have the tuning knowledge. I want to learn and need a teacher. I have read all of hoods tutorials but I'm better hands on vs reading what I'm supposed to do...


Nolan was tuning the truck years ago but last I talked to him he was pretty busy and couldn't help much. Anyone in the NJ area that can help? I have plenty of good streets to test on and could have plenty of beer as well :)


AND NO I'M NOT GOING HOLLEY EFI YET. (unless somebody is donating one) That's been the latest suggestion and while I agree I can't swing it now
 

sytyguy

Moderated User
Re: Looking for some tuning Help

How far along are you? Do you have a grasp of the general tuning basics? I'll be glad to help in whatever capacity I can, but my schedule is erratic and unreliable, so I'd prefer to keep my assistance to this thread. That way, I can contribute as I can and others can benefit as well.

Here goes....

I'm going to make some assumptions.

1) - You have an understanding of computer usage and are familiar with TunerPro.
2) - You have datalogging capabilites (best if they're incorporated into TunerPro).
3) - You have some AFR monitoring hardware. We can tune without, but it's better with.
4) - All of your hardware is connecting properly and you can datalog, emulate, etc... just fine.
5) - You have an appropriate starter bin for your mods.

Assuming all of that, let's start with idle. The bulk of idle tuning is going to be confined to 5 tables.....F1, F13, F18, F19, and F29x. We'll start with F1 as it's fickle with Vortecs and being off in here can affect the other tables.

F1 - This is your base timing map for the entire operating range of the engine. From idle to WOT, data in here directly affects the overall timing advance/retard of the truck. This is not to say that the values in this table are the exact timing you will see with a scantool, but they are a part of the formula used to calculate overall timing, so they're just as important as any other. Vortec heads require more timing at vacuum and allow more timing in boost thanks to improved design. Due to this, we need to accommodate for them in F1. Typically, Vortecs like between 5-10 degrees of extra timing from 600-4800 rpm in vacuum. So, start out by making sure that your F1 cells look similar to the image below.

F1_vortec.jpg


It's not important that your's look exact (these are from a truck at sea level, so YMMV), but they should be within 7-8%. I typically advise people to get the 600/800/1000 rpm cells at idle vac as close to each other as possible. Your idle may hunt a little bit and having timing jumping all over the place because you have the cells far apart can drive you mad. Likewise, the cells don't need to be far apart as the timing needed at 1000 rpm is of little difference than what the engine wants at 800 rpm. If your's were far off, you should begin to notice an immediate improvement in idle and cranking effort. Now, let's move on to the other tables, specifically F13, F18, & F19.

F13/F18/F19 - I'm going to group these together since their duties are so similar and the editing of one should be transparent to all (if not data specific, then margin specific). F13 sets a desired idle rpm based on battery voltage. This is so that if the charging system incurs an issue, that the ECM will attempt to compensate by raising the idle (linearly as batt-v decreases) to prevent the engine from stalling and to (hopefully) allow increased charging voltage. F18 & F19 are similar table based off of coolant temperature, allowing the idle to remain high while the engine is cold, and drop to normal idle speeds as it warms up. The 3 table work in concert, and if one is askew, the others are impacted to some degree. Let's get F13 straight first.....every truck is different and will like a different idle speed, but for the sake of getting a baseline, let's set F13 to look similar to this:

F13.png


You'll notice that the value for 12.8v & 14.4v are the same. This is because your idle voltage should be somewhere in the middle of those two. As a result, the ECM will "blend" the two values. So, if we had 12.8v at 900 and 14.4v at 700, and your idle voltage was at 13.6v, then the ECM would command an 800 rpm idle based on the average of the two cells. if the voltage were to creep to 13.0v, then the idle would fluctuate up. We don't want this.....we want stability, so set the two cells identical and if you have a small voltage fluctuation, the idle will won't suffer. Now, let's set F18 & F19 for similar obedience.

F18_F19.jpg


The truck that the above values were pulled from liked a 50 rpm drop when put in gear. Your's may like more (75, 100, etc...) or it might want no drop at all. You'll need to play around in here when fine-tuning. The LH table is F19 - Idle RPM in P/N and the RH table is F18 - Idle RPM in Gear. Your's should be similar, but not necessarily exact. Your truck may like an overall higher or lower rpm and it may need cold weather tweaking. Again, YMMV. The important take-away is that the warm idle rpm in these two table are not drastically far from F13, and as a result, the ECM has an easier time resolving an accurate idle rpm.

F29x - Lastly, let's touch on F29x briefly. This is a (main) fueling table unique to code59 as it combines the 2D F30 table with the 3D F29 and F29c tables. As a result, we get a much more comprehensive (but not definitive) fueling table that allows us to see trends and desires in greater clarity. For this post, we're gonna focus on the idle section only, so open F29x and observe the following section.

F29x_vac_75lb.jpg


The above values are from a truck running 75# injectors, so you may need to completely ignore these values, but that's not the important bit.....the trend is. The table needs to be edited in cooperation with a Wideband O2 in my opinion. Can you do it w/o one? Sure, but the time it takes you to get this table straight with a wideband is considerably less than without. So, with a wideband, you want to shoot for a fairly lean, stable idle. You want the idle lean to reduce emissions (if you care), increase economy, and keep plugs clean. SyTys typically like a slightly rich idle, so your inclination to set it to stoichiometric (14.7:1) would most likely be a bad idea as it may stumble and fart all over the place. 13.7:1 might be smooth as a Lexus. This is truly a custom tune in this table as it's dependent on SO many factors that can't be replicated on a bench. However, if you have the hardware (WBO2 wired into the ECM), I strongly encourage you to enable F29_AFR and tune based off of fuel trim. This is a lifesaver for the DIY-EFIer.

More to come.....
 

MICH TY

Donating Member
Re: Looking for some tuning Help

I'll be glad to help in whatever capacity I can, but my schedule is erratic and unreliable, so I'd prefer to keep my assistance to this thread. That way, I can contribute as I can and others can benefit as well.

Mr.Hood
Thanks for answering this way.:tup:
I'll be watching this thread closely, as I recently purchased everything for code59 tuning.
 

sytyguy

Moderated User
Re: Looking for some tuning Help

Mr.Hood
Thanks for answering this way.:tup:
Glad to help. I had been planning on doing a full video series for years now and see no chance of that happening anytime soon. With the adoption rate of the Holley setup (and rightfully so), I figured I'd get this info "on paper" while I can still remember and give a sh*t. :lol:
 

BoostedSUV

Active member
Re: Looking for some tuning Help

Appreciate all that info Mike! When I get home and perform some of these tasks hands on I'll be able to understand a little better. I have a starter .bin as well as a .bin from Sean Krupa to work with (his build is fairly similar).

I've got all the datalogging, xdf, ads, .bin stuff down. I do also have a wbo2 installed. I just need better understanding of the tables and what does what. Everything right now seems like a foreign language and more complicated than it really is. I haven't tried emulating yet or datalogging with tuner pro. I've only datalogged with datamaster and messed with a few things with tunerpro.
 

Static

Member
Re: Looking for some tuning Help

Watching this as well as I am in the same boat with tuning. Its overwhelming at first, like you have all these tables and all these numbers. Do they go up? Do they go down? Autotune? and its incompatibility with Tunerpro 5? Ive been reading a lot and playing a bit but Ive been getting frustrated at the results.
 

BoostedSUV

Active member
Re: Looking for some tuning Help

Watching this as well as I am in the same boat with tuning. Its overwhelming at first, like you have all these tables and all these numbers. Do they go up? Do they go down? Autotune? and its incompatibility with Tunerpro 5? Ive been reading a lot and playing a bit but Ive been getting frustrated at the results.

That's exactly how I feel. My head has been spinning but I want to learn. Seems everyone has forgotten about code 59 and suggests Holley efi (I certainly understand that but can't afford it right now)
 

BoostedSUV

Active member
Re: Looking for some tuning Help

Mike, I spent some time going through the tables and your info was extremely helpful!! I have a much better understanding of what each of the parameters controls. I'm still a little confused with f29x table (at least what the numbers signify) but I'll make adjustments and should be able to relate them to the AFRs.

I would like to use my Wideband in closed loop by enabling the F29_AFR but I have noticed through datalogging that what my gauge shows and what datamaster show are different numbers. I need to sort that out before it creates a bigger problem with the tune. I am going to tweak these numbers and see if I can get the idle tuned in first. I look forward to getting more info! Thanks so much
 

sytyguy

Moderated User
Re: Looking for some tuning Help

Glad it's starting to make some sense. For the those that don't know, the F29x (and the old F29, F29c, and F30 tables) are direct modifiers of commanded fueling (by way of injector PW, latency, etc...). This modification is commanded by calculating the VE (volumetric efficiency) of the engine at a given RPM/KPA. This table (and the final VE calculation) are not exactly representative of the engine's true VE at the RPM/KPA, but it allows us to modify fueling as if it is. So, if we raise the values in F29x, we are essentially telling the ECM that we have a higher volumetric efficiency at that range. By elevating the VE, we are asking the ECM to command more fuel (to account for the increased airflow). This means that a higher number commands higher fuel delivery.

But you might see a stock truck's F29x and a highly modified truck's F29x and wonder why the stock truck has higher numbers in that table. Surely the stock truck has a lower VE, right? Right.....but using smaller injectors means we have to compensate in here (if we haven't done so in F28) to get more fuel delivery. The modified truck most likely has larger injectors, so commanding a VE the same as the stock truck would result in a tremendous fuel delivery because the larger injectors are capable of delivering so much more fuel with each "spray" than the smaller injectors.

Think of it like a water hose. Let's say I want to fill a bucket at 5 gallons per minute and I have a small hose that can do that at 80 psi. If I swap the small hose for one twice the diameter and keep it at 80 psi, I will fill the bucket at 10 gpm. So, to accommodate for the increased flow, I can do one of two things.....lower the pressure....or cut the water on/off every so often. The former is like turning down your AFPR, whereas the latter is like changing the VE in F29x. Not an apples to apples comparison, but you get the point.
 

TNPhoon

1of28
Re: Looking for some tuning Help

Thank you for that detailed post mike!
I have everything for Code59 but feel lost. Mark was able to help me a bit. Trying to get into tuning a bit but had no idea where to start. This is great. Appreciate your time to write all that up! :tup:
 

JSM

Active member
Re: Looking for some tuning Help

Couple points. Holley isn't for everyone, nor is Code59. They each serve a portion of the overall trucks and have their place.

Regardless of the system, they all work very close to the same. So learning on one system you will learn the others also.

DO NOT jump into closed loop AFR too soon, the table MUST be right first, especially on code59. Otherwise you are relying on the correction to fix a messed up fuel table, and not make small adjustments. It is easy to want to jump into closed loop too soon, especially if you read about Holly system. (2 different systems in background).

The hardest with code59 is the hardware setup, from there teach yourself how to tune on a truck that is idling. You won't hurt anything aside from some plugs, or oil that needs changed. On top of that the idle is the hardest to get right, from there it just gets easier.
 

sytyguy

Moderated User
Re: Looking for some tuning Help

Couple points. Holley isn't for everyone, nor is Code59. They each serve a portion of the overall trucks and have their place.

Regardless of the system, they all work very close to the same. So learning on one system you will learn the others also.

DO NOT jump into closed loop AFR too soon, the table MUST be right first, especially on code59. Otherwise you are relying on the correction to fix a messed up fuel table, and not make small adjustments. It is easy to want to jump into closed loop too soon, especially if you read about Holly system. (2 different systems in background).

The hardest with code59 is the hardware setup, from there teach yourself how to tune on a truck that is idling. You won't hurt anything aside from some plugs, or oil that needs changed. On top of that the idle is the hardest to get right, from there it just gets easier.
Excellent points, couldn't agree more. :tup:
 
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