I'd like a 3 bar setup can someone help

[SpoolingTurbo6]

I'd like a 3 bar setup here are my mods so far.Whats the best for me?
Does anyone have an Image that good for this

PT&E 60-1
Forged & Bored
stock cam as far as I know!
Adjustable F.P.R.
40# inj
Warlboro F.P.
3'' exhaust
3,000stall
ANS boost controler
Aux. trany cooler
Aux.intercooler ATR front mount (water to air)
cold air intake and 10'' K&N

Thanks
Tyson

 

[kwick6]

nothing with 40lb injectors.

 

[SpoolingTurbo6]

Ok

Ok

What about Stockers,I can't bring myself to buy these high priced ones.

It' was bad enough when I was told to buy these 40's

Who,where,how much can I get 50#'s for?

Thanks

 

[Tyrant]

injectors

injectors

I got mine frome PTE Precision turbo and engine

 

[Deanzsyclone]

Re: Ok

Re: Ok

What about Stockers,I can't bring myself to buy these high priced ones.

It' was bad enough when I was told to buy these 40's

Who,where,how much can I get 50#'s for?

Thanks

I was running 40 pounders before my current setup and I was able to get a dyno run up to 390 hp with the 40's, so that was a nice improvement for me at that time, 100 hp. Of course I had a bigger turbo and all the other needed items to accomplish this, but the 40's fed it fine. Do you want more than a 100hp gain?

 

[kwick6]

Re: Ok

Re: Ok

What about Stockers,I can't bring myself to buy these high priced ones.

It' was bad enough when I was told to buy these 40's

Who,where,how much can I get 50#'s for?

Thanks

I was running 40 pounders before my current setup and I was able to get a dyno run up to 390 hp with the 40's, so that was a nice improvement for me at that time, 100 hp. Of course I had a bigger turbo and all the other needed items to accomplish this, but the 40's fed it fine. Do you want more than a 100hp gain?

ok now I'm curious.....

stock ecm?

what chip did you use with the 40's? 2 or 3 bar?

what turbo and other "needed" items did you have to accomplish this.
I'm not doubting you, this is just the first I've heard of anyone using 40's with any kind of success.......... except for one person that did all his own chipping.

 

[Deanzsyclone]

Re: Ok

Re: Ok

What about Stockers,I can't bring myself to buy these high priced ones.

It' was bad enough when I was told to buy these 40's

Who,where,how much can I get 50#'s for?

Thanks

I was running 40 pounders before my current setup and I was able to get a dyno run up to 390 hp with the 40's, so that was a nice improvement for me at that time, 100 hp. Of course I had a bigger turbo and all the other needed items to accomplish this, but the 40's fed it fine. Do you want more than a 100hp gain?

ok now I'm curious.....

stock ecm?

what chip did you use with the 40's? 2 or 3 bar?

what turbo and other "needed" items did you have to accomplish this.
I'm not doubting you, this is just the first I've heard of anyone using 40's with any kind of success.......... except for one person that did all his own chipping.

No stock ecm, I used my DFI gen 6, which by the way I need to get rid of some time soon, and I also used a KB headers and a t-68 turbo (the one in this photo ) and WB fuel pump, Keeny bell adj fuel pres reg, KB air to air, 40 lbs inj, and about 20 lbs of boost, you will need a 3bar map sensor so the computer can see the boost. Stock heads, 3" exhaust, no cat. Uhm I think that's it.
Unfortunately my sleeved cylinder could not hold up to the stress and it started to leak.

 

[SpoolingTurbo6]

Re: Ok

Re: Ok

What about Stockers,I can't bring myself to buy these high priced ones.


Do you want more than a 100hp gain?

I want all the H.P. I can get. Let me ask this instead.What is the best chip for what I have so far.Without doing alot more mods,whats a good 3bar
and what do you need to accomadate that chip?
I have (ta3b4)(street3)&(bg3b36x) 3bar chips but I think there for stock injectors.These seemed fine, I just don't want to underfuel it!
Thanks guys

Tyson

 

[Deanzsyclone]

Re: Ok

Re: Ok

What about Stockers,I can't bring myself to buy these high priced ones.


Do you want more than a 100hp gain?

I want all the H.P. I can get. Let me ask this instead.What is the best chip for what I have so far.Without doing alot more mods,whats a good 3bar
and what do you need to accomadate that chip?
I have (ta3b4)(street3)&(bg3b36x) 3bar chips but I think there for stock injectors.These seemed fine, I just don't want to underfuel it!
Thanks guys

Tyson

Well before you try to push all the HP you can be aware that you do get closer to the edge of busting that stock block or stock pistons/rods/crank. I don't know what the limit is but mine broke under stock horsepower, but it was knocking so that's what did it in. Damn California gas.
As far as chip, uhm I don't know. Never really played with them, I went straight to DFI so I could tune specificly to my own engine instead of a chip that is tuned to an engine like mine. I have heard alot of good things about the chip that has the multiple settings.. I don't recall the name, there's probably more than one out there like that. You have to find out who makes the chips and see if they have any settings for 40 pounders I would imagine.
Best wishes on your search.

 

[SpoolingTurbo6]

Re: Ok

Re: Ok

Well before you try to push all the HP you can be aware that you do get closer to the edge of busting that stock block or stock pistons/rods/crank. I don't know what the limit is but mine broke under stock horsepower, but it was knocking so that's what did it in.
Best wishes on your search.

As I wrote above I've already took care of a few weekneses (a few)

PT&E 60-1
Forged & Bored piston / con. rods
stock cam as far as I know!
L35's
Adjustable F.P.R.
40# inj
Warlboro F.P.
3'' exhaust
3,000stall
ANS boost controler
Aux. trany cooler
Aux.intercooler ATR front mount (water to air)
cold air intake and 10'' K&N

You know I've actualy been thinking of doing derrect fuel injection...Is it worth the pain?
Thanks
Tyson

 

[Deanzsyclone]

Re: Ok

Re: Ok

Well before you try to push all the HP you can be aware that you do get closer to the edge of busting that stock block or stock pistons/rods/crank. I don't know what the limit is but mine broke under stock horsepower, but it was knocking so that's what did it in.
Best wishes on your search.

As I wrote above I've already took care of a few weekneses (a few)

PT&E 60-1
Forged & Bored piston / con. rods
stock cam as far as I know!
L35's
Adjustable F.P.R.
40# inj
Warlboro F.P.
3'' exhaust
3,000stall
ANS boost controler
Aux. trany cooler
Aux.intercooler ATR front mount (water to air)
cold air intake and 10'' K&N

You know I've actualy been thinking of doing derrect fuel injection...Is it worth the pain?
Thanks
Tyson

As I said, Stock Block! they can crack a cylender wall, trust me, I know!

Best of luck to you!

and ps, no knowledge on the direct fuel injection you asked about.

 

[smeagol]

Re: Ok

Re: Ok

Well before you try to push all the HP you can be aware that you do get closer to the edge of busting that stock block or stock pistons/rods/crank. I don't know what the limit is but mine broke under stock horsepower, but it was knocking so that's what did it in.
Best wishes on your search.

As I wrote above I've already took care of a few weekneses (a few)

PT&E 60-1
Forged & Bored piston / con. rods
stock cam as far as I know!
L35's
Adjustable F.P.R.
40# inj
Warlboro F.P.
3'' exhaust
3,000stall
ANS boost controler
Aux. trany cooler
Aux.intercooler ATR front mount (water to air)
cold air intake and 10'' K&N

You know I've actualy been thinking of doing derrect fuel injection...Is it worth the pain?
Thanks
Tyson

As I said, Stock Block! they can crack a cylender wall, trust me, I know!

Best of luck to you!

and ps, no knowledge on the direct fuel injection you asked about.

Stock block has proven itself in many applications. Almost anybody going fast on this board has used it. Many people going 10s, 11s on 'em in the right buildups. We've tried to find people that have had proven block failures that were directly caused by too much power made on stock components - and no one came forward. Please share your experiences in detail.

The direct fuel injection he's referring to is DFI.

DFI v6 was simple, but programmable, and got the job done for most people. It's as much a solution as it is a cause of problems/issues IMO. DFI v7 is the newest rendition, and is pretty nice. I know of 3 people that used it in syty apps. 1 - works for Accel 2- on the board, had a very good tuner install & tune it, with good results 3- installed & tuned it, and had some sort of issues with it, and went to FAST. FAST has had many syty'ers use it, so lots more in the knowledge base. Tons of research to be had there, I won't argue one way or another.

Regarding chips - there just isn't much out there for 40lb/hr injectors. Stockers are ~32lb/hr, 40s don't offer much more. We jumped right to using 50s since they were easier to tune, they offered a lot more injector headroom, and they were the largest you could run on an un-modified stock ECM. You could get a custom chip calibration for the 40s, but the money/time you'd spend getting that done would be worthless rather than just jumping to some proven 3 bar 50# calibrations. Just my $0.02.

 

[Deanzsyclone]

Re: Ok

Re: Ok

Well before you try to push all the HP you can be aware that you do get closer to the edge of busting that stock block or stock pistons/rods/crank. I don't know what the limit is but mine broke under stock horsepower, but it was knocking so that's what did it in.
Best wishes on your search.

As I wrote above I've already took care of a few weekneses (a few)

PT&E 60-1
Forged & Bored piston / con. rods
stock cam as far as I know!
L35's
Adjustable F.P.R.
40# inj
Warlboro F.P.
3'' exhaust
3,000stall
ANS boost controler
Aux. trany cooler
Aux.intercooler ATR front mount (water to air)
cold air intake and 10'' K&N

You know I've actualy been thinking of doing derrect fuel injection...Is it worth the pain?
Thanks
Tyson

As I said, Stock Block! they can crack a cylender wall, trust me, I know!

Best of luck to you!

and ps, no knowledge on the direct fuel injection you asked about.

Stock block has proven itself in many applications. Almost anybody going fast on this board has used it. Many people going 10s, 11s on 'em in the right buildups. We've tried to find people that have had proven block failures that were directly caused by too much power made on stock components - and no one came forward. Please share your experiences in detail.

The direct fuel injection he's referring to is DFI.

DFI v6 was simple, but programmable, and got the job done for most people. It's as much a solution as it is a cause of problems/issues IMO. DFI v7 is the newest rendition, and is pretty nice. I know of 3 people that used it in syty apps. 1 - works for Accel 2- on the board, had a very good tuner install & tune it, with good results 3- installed & tuned it, and had some sort of issues with it, and went to FAST. FAST has had many syty'ers use it, so lots more in the knowledge base. Tons of research to be had there, I won't argue one way or another.

Regarding chips - there just isn't much out there for 40lb/hr injectors. Stockers are ~32lb/hr, 40s don't offer much more. We jumped right to using 50s since they were easier to tune, they offered a lot more injector headroom, and they were the largest you could run on an un-modified stock ECM. You could get a custom chip calibration for the 40s, but the money/time you'd spend getting that done would be worthless rather than just jumping to some proven 3 bar 50# calibrations. Just my $0.02.

Well see there's my ignorence, I hyave DFI but did not know what the abriviation stood for, (never asked)

My block cracked under 100% stock conditions, stock chip, stock injectors, stock everything with 92 octane gas (california gas). So I had it sleeved and put on the bigger turbo and 40pounders and air to air, and all the stuff to get some more power out of it but the sleeve did not hold up and it bowed out, or egg shaped and started leaking, between the cylinder wall and sleeve, mixing the coolant and oil again.

My stock engine when it cracked was having a knocking issue but I could not find any cause for it, I was running 13.2 at the track with it knocking but I bet this helped tremedously in adding to the crack.

 

[smeagol]

Well see there's my ignorence, I hyave DFI but did not know what the abriviation stood for, (never asked)

My block cracked under 100% stock conditions, stock chip, stock injectors, stock everything with 92 octane gas (california gas). So I had it sleeved and put on the bigger turbo and 40pounders and air to air, and all the stuff to get some more power out of it but the sleeve did not hold up and it bowed out, or egg shaped and started leaking, between the cylinder wall and sleeve, mixing the coolant and oil again.

My stock engine when it cracked was having a knocking issue but I could not find any cause for it, I was running 13.2 at the track with it knocking but I bet this helped tremedously in adding to the crack.

Well DFI really stands for digital fuel injection, but direct works too :wink:

See my point with the stock block is that if you were detonating, chances are you would have done the same damage to a bowtie block too. Detonation can blow up pretty much ANYTHING. It introduces a HECK of a lot more stress to an engine than just plain hp or torque. Guys have done a lot more with the stock block and not had any cylinder wall problems. I had a motor with a stock block that was .030 over, it ran many 11.0 passes in my Syclone. It ended up having a bearing issue, due to oil starvation... cylinder walls and everything else was fine.

 

[TYPHUZION]

Smeagol, I will be adding the Ultimate chip to my Ty but am still undecided on whether or not I will be upgrading my turbo.

Should I get the 50lb injector Ultimate and injectors now in case I decide to upgrade the turbo later?

Whats the most boost pressure i can run (with race fuel) on the stock injectors?

What are the disadvantages of running 50lb injectors?

Idle quality?

midrange loss?

Also is it mandatory to get an AFPR when going to a 3 bar setup?

I have read (chitownsyty) that a 3 bar setup works better with 50lbs of static fuel pressure as opposed to the stock 45psi.

 

[smeagol]

Smeagol, I will be adding the Ultimate chip to my Ty but am still undecided on whether or not I will be upgrading my turbo.

-Should I get the 50lb injector Ultimate and injectors now in case I decide to upgrade the turbo later?

The 50s aren't really necessary unless you go bigger on the turbo and so forth. I'm not sure if they'd hurt performance on a stock turbo setup. I ran that way on a Ty I had with no problems, but I'm sure that calibration was different than the ones on the current 50# setups. Just means it hasn't been tried in the current calibration layout.

-Whats the most boost pressure i can run (with race fuel) on the stock injectors?

With stock turbo, you'll find you won't gain much going past 18psi or so. Stock injectors will be fine up til then. Guys have gone high 11s on the stock injectors, it depends on many things. If you are on stock turbo, unless you are having problems with the injectors, there's no reason to swap them out.

-What are the disadvantages of running 50lb injectors?

I had none. In all of my syty usage, I liked 'em over the stockers 100 to 1. However, I also had the benefit of being able to tweak the crap outta the calibration to fit my trucks. The calibrations I sell are about what I used (for my stock-ish Typhoon at least) and it gave me better drivability and response than the other calibrations I sell for the stock injectors even. Some people have reported low mileage, others have had no problems. I think at that point, the differences we see from truck to truck really start to show. The disadvantages of using the 50s will be more based on calibration deficiencies rather than any 'feature' of the 50# injectors themselves. FWIW, all of my 50# calibrations are open loop. Might be a good thing, might be a bad thing ::shrug::

-Idle quality?

I've posted it before, my calibration for the 50s, in my Ty, gave me the best idle quality i've seen in any Syty, bar none. I've tuned many syty's, and have seen many datalogs. I've seen similar results for other people. As always, I have to post a disclaimer, YMMV - your mileage may vary :wink:

-midrange loss?

can't comment on that - never saw much of any *loss*

-Also is it mandatory to get an AFPR when going to a 3 bar setup?

if you do 50s - no - they were based around a stock fuel pressure level. if you run the stock injector calibrations - almost certainly - as those calibrations were based on a higher fuel pressure, so we could essentially get more from those injectors.

-I have read (chitownsyty) that a 3 bar setup works better with 50lbs of static fuel pressure as opposed to the stock 45psi.

to be clear - that is ONLY on the stock injector calibrations. Some run faster when they ran 42-43psi, but that's something you'd have to test for yourself. So much varies from truck to truck, day to day, gauge to gauge.

 

[SpoolingTurbo6]

hey Smeagol

hey Smeagol

Smeagol,
I have (ta3b4) (street3) & (bg3b36x) 3bar chips from you, but I think there for stock injectors(arent they?)
These seemed fine,when I used the on stock injectors I just don't want to underfuel it!
Can you please tell me a lit'l about them ?
Sorry about the DFI error
Thanks B.G.
Tyson

 

[V8 TYPHOON]

Tyson, Keep the boost low and enjoy your truck......high boost and SY/TYs is usually always a formula for engine failure.....I know there are some guys getting away with high boost and have not blown one up yet...they have been lucky. You can tune the computer perfect and try to avoid detonation but the bottom line is that the engines have a hard time taking all the power. Its just my opinion but your money would be better spent on a stronger bottom end and better heads, then throw more boost at it.
I have seen many blown up Sy/Tys, here is one combination that has taken a lot of abuse..... Vortec heads, welded aluminum intake to match heads, offset ground stroker crankshaft(probably the weakest part), je inverted dome pistons, lunati promod rods, o-ringed heads, copper gaskets, big turbo, air to air, headers, cam etc... This engine has taken a lot of racing abuse and is still running strong.

Nitrous Junkie

 

[SpoolingTurbo6]

I just want to set so things straight.

I just want to set so things straight.

In my list on page(1) It says forged and bored, that means forged TRW 8.35:1 forged pistons And Eagle mached forged con rods.It has a strong stock crank it, I didn't have it balanced at 8,000 for nothing! At 5,800 the only knock I get is residual from the driveline, my injectors make more knock than my motor! <----- sarcasm.

So maybe I've not listed all the things I've done to this truck , for the simple fact everyone doesn't want to hear it.(just my 2cents)

I didn't post this to make anyone mad I just want to set so things straight.
:banghead:
No offence ,But I've been giving this truck 16-20lbs of boost on a 3 bar for a while now and it loves it. I might be a new person to this site ,but you can count on one thing I'm not new to SyTy's nor a I new to motor building.
I've built a few radical motors in my time. Have you ever heard of a 400 small block with 267 v8 heads on it, I have I built it, You never saw the road when you launched it, it would carry the left front wheel for an 8th of a mile in a Regal.

Have a nice night V8 phony phoon nfire: