help, no reverse and...

[HotRudyRod]

Re: help, no reverse and...

I had this same thing happen to me, i think it was 1st gear's clutches burnt. Obviously if you dont have 1st gear then you can't throw it in reverse, or at least thats what i figured out. And it happened quick, one saturday night i was trashing the truck while bar hopin and got home fine, next morning i would have to rev it pretty hi to make the shift while goin to a restaurant then inmediatly after i took it to the garage and left it there for a while, then next time when i took it to the tranny shop to get the trans removed it wouldnt even shift, after comin out of the shop the damn thing wouldn't even move, lol.

Ps. This time around im goin to take really good care of the trans/truck, it gets pretty expensive to fool around on a Sy/Ty even if you dont crash.

 

[TYTILIDIE]

Re: help, no reverse and...

Expensivce and worth every dollar HAHAHA

 

[msheller]

Re: help, no reverse and...

I don't have to manually shift it...but like i said...no reverse and it revs waaay too hi before it shifts into each subsequent fwd gear(on its own)

So, I need advice here: I have a local tranny shop with a great rep researching and rebuilding this tranny... THey did Adam k's sy trranny and did a great job...so here's my question---please tell me your advice on the specific parts that they should upgrade while they are in there... i'd like to print all of your suggestions and present it to them at our "planning session" b4 the build... thanks again guys

Matt

 

[jwaller]

Re: help, no reverse and...

replace everything, thats no joke. blueprint the entire trans, every clutch tolerance and espcially the pump(everything in the pump must be blueprinted at a machine shop). use a 570 boost valve and larger rev boost valve. billete 2nd and 4th servo's. cryo all moving parts. full roller beaing conversion( no bushings) use GM 5 pinion front and rear planets, 1 piece sprag and old style element. dont mess the the VB at all. lots more but the rest they should know if they have done 700's.

 

[msheller]

Re: help, no reverse and...

thanks for the advice...its very valuable!

Matt

 

[msheller]

Re: help, no reverse and...

replace everything, thats no joke. blueprint the entire trans, every clutch tolerance and espcially the pump(everything in the pump must be blueprinted at a machine shop). use a 570 boost valve and larger rev boost valve. billete 2nd and 4th servo's. cryo all moving parts. full roller beaing conversion( no bushings) use GM 5 pinion front and rear planets, 1 piece sprag and old style element. dont mess the the VB at all. lots more but the rest they should know if they have done 700's.

J Waller,

I passed your suggestions along to the tranny builders. They can do it all except for a couple of questions: What is the "full roller bearing conversion(no bushings)"? They had trouble locating a supplier or something on that. They told me they normally use clevite bushings with a bronze face...is that OK?

Also, they use a 500 boost valve instead of a 570...is that OK?

and, What is the larger rev boost valve?

Can Dennis's tech call you? #?

thanks again

Matt

 

[msheller]

Re: help, no reverse and...

Clarification...i lost reverse, second and fourth gears.

and what's the deal with the nylon gear on the governor...upgrade?

Matt

 

[George Blake]

Re: help, no reverse and...

Roller bearing conversion means that all of the thrust washers are replaced with torrington needle bearings. John meant bearings, not bushings. You have to change some parts to do that. Late model reaction shaft, late model sun gear shell, and on the pump....that one is kinda unique. They have to use a pump bushing from a TH325-4L transmission and insert that into the reverse input drum. Then, instead of a thrust washer, you use a pump torrington bearing from a TH350. Fit's like a glove.
The nylon gear on the governor is was they come with. You HAVE to use one for a 700. If you use one from a 350(they look alike), it will chew up the nylon gear.
PM me your phone number if you need more help.

 

[jwaller]

Re: help, no reverse and...

J Waller,
I passed your suggestions along to the tranny builders. They can do it all except for a couple of questions: What is the "full roller bearing conversion(no bushings)"? They had trouble locating a supplier or something on that. They told me they normally use clevite bushings with a bronze face...is that OK?
Also, they use a 500 boost valve instead of a 570...is that OK?
and, What is the larger rev boost valve?
Can Dennis's tech call you? #?
thanks again
Matt

sure tell them to call anytime. 500 is ok but it's kinda small, I only use them for reg n/a motors. 570 on the other hand is overkill for most apps(I have several inbetween 500 and 570 that I offer)

 

[msheller]

Re: help, no reverse and...

oh you meant larger reverse boost valve...

 

[msheller]

Re: help, no reverse and...

Roller bearing conversion means that all of the thrust washers are replaced with torrington needle bearings. John meant bearings, not bushings. You have to change some parts to do that. Late model reaction shaft, late model sun gear shell, and on the pump....that one is kinda unique. They have to use a pump bushing from a TH325-4L transmission and insert that into the reverse input drum. Then, instead of a thrust washer, you use a pump torrington bearing from a TH350. Fit's like a glove.
The nylon gear on the governor is was they come with. You HAVE to use one for a 700. If you use one from a 350(they look alike), it will chew up the nylon gear.
PM me your phone number if you need more help.

why is the roller beaqring conversion good to do?

What does the 500 versus 570(or inbetween) boost valve do?

Matt

 

[msheller]

Re: help, no reverse and...

It boost line pressure to firm shifts and hold clutches better. There are many things that have to be taken into account though when going really high on pressure. Parts breakage and shift points. For what it sounds like the trans is gonna be used for, I don't think you need to do a full torrington conversion. You'll need to do a torrington for the 4L65E reaction shaft. But just use a beast sun gear shell and the new shaft. The 4L65 sprag with a BW 29 element sprag is the way to go.

OK...I'll pass your comments along to the builder...

and if the 570 boost valve is an upgrade in line pressure, then what did the sy come with factory? 500?

Matt

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: help, no reverse and...

.471 which is the biggest largest one GM install on their 700/4L60 of the time.

 

[msheller]

Re: help, no reverse and...

ok, thanx...so the .500 they plan to put in will give me an ever so slightly firmer shift than factory syclone?!

Matt

 

[George Blake]

Re: help, no reverse and...

A little. Have them block the line bias valve too. At above 50% throttle or so, the line bias valve starts dumping pressure. The syty came with a really stiff spring but if they block it, it will help the 2-4 band considerably. Have them do this after verifying that everything else is working OK(mainly shift points).

 

[msheller]

Re: help, no reverse and...

It boost line pressure to firm shifts and hold clutches better. There are many things that have to be taken into account though when going really high on pressure. Parts breakage and shift points. For what it sounds like the trans is gonna be used for, I don't think you need to do a full torrington conversion. You'll need to do a torrington for the 4L65E reaction shaft. But just use a beast sun gear shell and the new shaft. The 4L65 sprag with a BW 29 element sprag is the way to go.

George,

did u mean "4L60 sprag with..." or did u really mean 4L65?

Matt

 

[George Blake]

Re: help, no reverse and...

4L65 sprag. GM#24210961. The only problem is that it comes with an SKF single cage element. I like the BW sprag 29 element with nickel plated washers formed for additional lube and stability. It is a direct drop in. It will have the front sun gear pressed into it. There's another little thing you can do to it. I've been doing it a couple years now and it works great. PM me.

 

[jwaller]

Re: help, no reverse and...

blocking the line bias valve will dork around with your part throttle shift points and feel not to metion introducing bindup inbetween the gears/shifts. it's a hack way of getting firmer shifts(that is actually a bindup which leads to broken parts) that arent needed. B&M started this method of giving away 1" blocker rods in their shift improver kits waaaay back in the day, wasnt a good idea then and still isn't today. these trannies shift hard enough as is and harder is definatrly not better. using a billete 2nd servo will fix any band problems that you once had with your stock unit.
if you plan on WOT blasts into 4th and top speed also use a billete 4th servo to cover the big MPH runs.

the 65E sprag is commonly refered to as a 1 piece bc the sun gear is now pressed in the back and it keeps that gear and it's backlash from putting slack in that area ad busting the ears off of the sprag shell. use the 65E sprag and the BW element and your golden. The BW element also has a double cage design that helps hold each sprag element true in it's track wheras the SKF is a single cage design.

 

[George Blake]

Re: help, no reverse and...

blocking the line bias valve will dork around with your part throttle shift points and feel not to metion introducing bindup inbetween the gears/shifts

Never had a problem with that. I've done many. Your entitled to your opinion though. :tup:
The reason being is that the line bias valve doesn't start dumping off pressure until you get over 50% throttle. A .570" boost valve though increases pressure all the way across the spectrum. This absolutely causes changes in part throttle as well as WOT shift points.
Msheller, If you need any more help just call or PM me.

 

[msheller]

Re: help, no reverse and...

thanks again for all the help and opinions...really has helped this build!

Matt