help choose turbo

[vladimir]

Not quite a ty/sy but i figured maybe you guys can help guide me in the right direction with this..


I have a 97 s10 4.3 s10 5spd... I want to run about 8-10psi of booost, with room to grow later on. For now i would just run a upgraded fuel pump, msd ignition and intercooler. Sometime in the future if funds permit i wanna do 2114 conversion or add extra injectors..but not immidiatly.

As far as the turbo goes, i am thinking something along the lines of T3/T4 ..57 trim .63 a/r turbine and .50 a/r compressor.

Will this turbo do the job for now, or should i be looking at something bigger?

 

[MikeRenz]

Re: help choose turbo

Will this turbo do the job for now, or should i be looking at something bigger?

well what JOB is it that you are seeking to fulfill? Just some added power? Racing? what?

if you only want to run 8-10psi then you obviously have no intentions of cracking open the motor to build it to handle real boost. pretty much any small-medium sized turbo will be able to make 8-10psi for you. The one you list sounds like way overkill for such low boost.

 

[vladimir]

Re: help choose turbo

well what JOB is it that you are seeking to fulfill? Just some added power? Racing? what?

if you only want to run 8-10psi then you obviously have no intentions of cracking open the motor to build it to handle real boost. pretty much any small-medium sized turbo will be able to make 8-10psi for you. The one you list sounds like way overkill for such low boost.

I just want some added power. Reason for such low boost at begining is due to fact that stock fuel system won't be able to handle much more, without spending some dough on 2114 or extra injectors. 10pounds now, 15 down the road when i get more money to upgrade fuel.

I am looking at something like this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3-T...120086827410QQihZ002QQitemZ120086827410QQrdZ1

a 200$ ebay special, I figure even if it dies, i can buy 4 of these things at a cost of 1 hks or garett. I only drive my truck around during the summer, so it barelly gets any millage put on it...

 

[UR50SLO]

Re: help choose turbo

I'm guessing you got the CPI injected deal.. either the allum. manifold or the plastic one. Either way your going to run into trouble upgrading the injectors. The flow inside the 95 style intake would not be too bad but I think the plastic ones would be horrible.

The fuel pump in your tank is a "one unit" style that comes with sending unit/pump/housing. It appears you could take it apart to replace it with a warbro 225lr/hr but not with the stock internal hoses it comes with. They grow several inches for some reason and don't look very strong.

ECM tuning is your biggest issue. If someone makes a editor for the OBD2 then you'd be set. With out that It would be difficult to have a successfull fuel/timing curve.

I would use a Grand National style turbo as they are cheap and easy to hook up.
I used a TA 49 on my 89 Nissan Maxima 3.0L It flows 800CFM and supports 500hp.
My 225,000mi FWD nissan runs 13.40's at 107mph. I've made a new downpipe and it should touch 12's with proper launch. I've found that FWD is quite a challange in that deptmnt.

Flip your exhaust manifolds around and make your own cross over pipe/down pipe. That part is prity easy and stright forward... feed and return lines to/from turbo.
Being that your system is a MAF base system it will allow for some more air flow to be accounted and fueled for but there will be a limit to it. I believe in most of the CPI's FPR are actually in the manifold hooked on to the spider injector. Which means it will raise fuel pressure 1-1 with boost. I'm realy worried about the injectors.. or poppet valves the most.

Your biggest hurdle will be the tuning software to change fuel/timing and the injection issues. Putting the actual turbo on and fabricating the pipes ect would be simple.
I did another Maxima a few weeks ago start to finish in 2days. It was non intercooled for now but still very responcive at 7psi.

There's a guy up in detroit that does the turbo setups on your truck... I've heard mixed things but he's got some experience. If anything I'd just want what ever tuning software he uses.
If you've got any questions I'll try and help...
Good luck,
Scott!

 

[vladimir]

Re: help choose turbo

ECM tuning is your biggest issue. If someone makes a editor for the OBD2 then you'd be set. With out that It would be difficult to have a successfull fuel/timing curve.

I would use a Grand National style turbo as they are cheap and easy to hook up.
I used a TA 49 on my 89 Nissan Maxima 3.0L It flows 800CFM and supports 500hp.
My 225,000mi FWD nissan runs 13.40's at 107mph. I've made a new downpipe and it should touch 12's with proper launch. I've found that FWD is quite a challange in that deptmnt.


Your biggest hurdle will be the tuning software to change fuel/timing and the injection issues. Putting the actual turbo on and fabricating the pipes ect would be simple.
I did another Maxima a few weeks ago start to finish in 2days. It was non intercooled for now but still very responcive at 7psi.

i can do the tuning with tunercat ( http://www.tunercat.com/ ). From what i read with a walbro fuel pump and FMU the stock injectors will handle 8-10psi just fine.

I am not sure what you mean by grand national type turbo...I am looking at something like this..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3-T...0QQihZ019QQcategoryZ33742QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[denny]

Re: help choose turbo

Not quite a ty/sy but i figured maybe you guys can help guide me in the right direction with this..


I have a 97 s10 4.3 s10 5spd... I want to run about 8-10psi of booost, with room to grow later on. For now i would just run a upgraded fuel pump, msd ignition and intercooler. Sometime in the future if funds permit i wanna do 2114 conversion or add extra injectors..but not immidiatly.

As far as the turbo goes, i am thinking something along the lines of T3/T4 ..57 trim .63 a/r turbine and .50 a/r compressor.

Will this turbo do the job for now, or should i be looking at something bigger?

Got a turbo for you and its not because I am the seller.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Turb...003QQitemZ130081430243QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

 

[vladimir]

Re: help choose turbo

Should i get T3/T4 ..57 trim .63 a/r turbine and .50 a/r compressor.

or


T3/T4 ..57 trim .63 a/r turbine and .60 a/r compressor. ?

 

[MikeRenz]

Re: help choose turbo

you need to establish actual goals, and do some research. Look at where your motor makes power, find a compressor map that best suits your needs/goals. Its not just something you can randomly ask someone for advice.

And as for the $200 turbos you are looking at buying....they're pretty much imported crap that you shouldn't get upset at if one fails on you. I've read of horror stories online of people thinking they're getting a great "garrett copy" turbo only to have it work like poo.

 

[#2875]

Re: help choose turbo

you need to establish actual goals, and do some research. Look at where your motor makes power, find a compressor map that best suits your needs/goals. Its not just something you can randomly ask someone for advice.

And as for the $200 turbos you are looking at buying....they're pretty much imported crap that you shouldn't get upset at if one fails on you. I've read of horror stories online of people thinking they're getting a great "garrett copy" turbo only to have it work like poo.

the ones that do work have install issues and the owner regrets not buying a better turbo from the beginning. if someone else installs it you will have more money in the setup with a cheaper turbo... if YOU install it you will see what i am talking about...

 

[vladimir]

Re: help choose turbo

Aight, this turbo deffinatelly seems like a keeper for now..



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T-70...hZitem290086630607QQihZ019QQitemZ290086630607







looking at the compressor map i am right on the money for the most part for 300hp at 10psi of boost.... so if i crank up the boost a little and move my hp goal some the turbo has room to grow...

do the a/r ratios look good?


Wet Floating ball bearings 1/8 NPT oulet.. Shaft & wheel Trim @ 64.5MM (Same exactly Garret model T61)
3" Exhaust Outlet. Turbine housing @ .84
Compressor housing A/R Ratio @.70

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: help choose turbo

At a glance those all look like small displacement import turbo's. Stop looking at the bargin bin ebay turbo's. In general, the T3/T4 hybrids are all for small motors. You have 4.3 liter of air for displacement. What are you planning to run for turbo manifolds? Custom or SyTy?

 

[vladimir]

Re: help choose turbo

it puts out 84lb/min thats 1200 cfms


my engine at 10psi will only need 630cfms at 5000rpm

 

[MikeRenz]

Re: help choose turbo

it puts out 84lb/min thats 1200 cfms


my engine at 10psi will only need 630cfms at 5000rpm

it maxes out at 84lbs/min. Thats not what it will actually do for you. There is no way that small, horribly casted turbo is a 1200cfm turbo. Dave is right...the t3/t4 turbos are what the import world was using for a long time. They have smaller motors and spin almost twice as fast as the 4.3 does. You want something that'll be more efficient w/ your displacement and short rpm band. I'd be willing to bet your have a tough time controlling boost w/ that turbo. Prolly would be real spikey. To show you how inneficient this turbo is for your motor...do some calculations.

air flor = (cid * rpm * .5 * Ev)/1728 = (262 * 5200 * .5 * .8)/1728 = 315.37cfm = 21.79lb/min
10psi is a 1.68pressure ratio.

So acccording to your map, here's where you lie:

maybe my calcs are off...let me know. But looks like a real gem of a turbo. :roll:

 

[vortecfiero]

Re: help choose turbo

that .63 AR is kinda small for the V6. It will spool up fast but may choke the exhaust
in the upper mid range.Personally Id go for a .89 or higher in the T3 turbine.
For a reference I have been using a T31, which is slightly larger and a .89 AR. It spools a little fast...
10 psi @ 2500 rph with a T04 S3

 

[vortecfiero]

Re: help choose turbo

this site is usefull for choosing compressor sizes.. it even has inputs for intercooler and
water/alky tuning. The link has the 4.3 L35 already embedded and near the bottom is,
"Plot results on compressor map", a dropdown box for the various maps.

http://not2fast.wryday.com/turbo/glossary/turbo_calc.shtml?FeetASL=1000&Tamb=23&Bore=101&Stroke=89&nCyl=6&RPM=5500&VE=80&Boost=10&Ec=75&Eic=80&PdropIC=0.5&TambIC=23&wiPercentMethanol=50&wiRate=100&wiTemp=21&SFC=0.49&AFR=13.3&maxInjectorDutyCycle=85


the 57 is not in a very efficient zone - 5000 rpm at 60% @ 10psi

the 60 is a better choice for 2 reasons
1) 70% efficiency
2) from peak torque to peak hp it never goes below 75%