QuinnSY
Donating Member
I have been wanting to do a sealed beam conversion to the Syclone for 3 years now and have done a fair amount of research, and came to a conclusion that Cibie Lenses were the best out there I could get. The guy who sells them www.Danielsternlighting.com seems to be overly knowleageable about the subject but with 0 tollerance for HID's. I had them on my older truck in projector housings, adjusted them and it had great light output and didn't blind people. I was concerned about putting a HID in a square light housing, but another .net member had the Cibie lenses with HID's and the light was great and cut off line perfect. I guess not according to Daniel Stern though. He definitely seems to know what he is talking about though. The whole conversation started when he asked what lights I was putting in the lens's.
Me:
I know you don't like to hear this but HIDs.
Daniel:
Very, very stupid idea. "HID kits" in halogen-bulb headlamps or fog/auxiliary lamps (any kit, any lamp, any vehicle no matter whether it's a car, truck, motorcycle, etc.) do not work safely or effectively, which is why they are illegal. See http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html .
Me:
My friend has the same car as me and the cibie lights with HIDs and the cut off line is perfect
Daniel:
Your subjective impressions of the cutoff line have nothing to do with the distribution of light _under_ the cutoff, which is what determines the safety performance of the lamps.
Me:
The Color was great at 6k and easy to see.
Daniel:
"Color temperature" / "Kelvin rating" (correct terminology: CCT) is a real
phenomenon, but its use in the advertisement of automotive lighting
products is almost entirely fraudulent.
Me:
The High beam feature worked well.
Daniel:
The "high beam function" of so-called "BiXenon H4" kits doesn't work even minimally acceptably, let alone "well".
Me:
I've had him follow me and they didn't blind me at all.
Daniel:
Yet another subjective impression. We humans simply are not equipped to accurately judge how well or poorly we can see. Our impressions just don't match reality -- no matter how much or how little we know about the science of seeing or of headlamp performance. Throw a little sales bullshit in front of us ("6000K color temperature! Closer to natural daylight!") and we eat it up with a spoon -- we see what we want to see. And there's no shortage of ignorant babble all over the internet ("HID kits are fine! Just aim the lamps down so they don't glare!" -- Yeah, great, now your seeing distance is about 30 whole, entire feet...real smart.)
Me:
What color light do your bulbs put off?
Daniel:
White. Xenon, LED, and filament-bulb lamps are three completely different technologies. They all produce white light. They produce light using wholly different means, and therefore they look different. They're supposed to look different.
Me:
There are lots of great detailed technical write ups on your website, but its pretty difficult to sell your lights with no pictures.
Daniel:
I do very well selling lamps to people who buy based on science and fact, not on bullshit and handwaving and irrelevancies like color temperature.
Me:
I haven't seen any pictures of bulb comparison.
Daniel:
Right. Know why? Because photos of beam patterns, operating lamps, or operating bulbs are useless (at best) even if the photographer has the best of intent. The human visual system's dynamic range is several orders of magnitude greater than that of any imaging system, whether film or digital.
Me:
I'm looking at the H4 bulbs and have no Idea which ones I would want to buy. Descriptions aren't very specific.
Daniel:
That depends on what you're trying to achieve. If you want your headlamps to look like HIDs, there is no halogen bulb that'll do it. If you want to see properly and have safe headlamps, there's a wide range of bulbs that'll do it. Which ones to pick depends on factors such as headlamp height, vehicle headlamp circuit configuration, and intended usage.
Me:
I will buy one set of the headlights with the bulbs you recommend and put HID's in the other one as a comparison.
Daniel
Happy to work with you on this if you'd like, but before you spend the money, let's make sure it's not going to be a waste. Exactly what points of comparison do you have in mind? Comparing spurious factors like "whiteness" or "color temperature" might be fun, but that's all it would be.
Now I have to Decide again What route I want to go with my headlamps :roll:
Me:
I know you don't like to hear this but HIDs.
Daniel:
Very, very stupid idea. "HID kits" in halogen-bulb headlamps or fog/auxiliary lamps (any kit, any lamp, any vehicle no matter whether it's a car, truck, motorcycle, etc.) do not work safely or effectively, which is why they are illegal. See http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html .
Me:
My friend has the same car as me and the cibie lights with HIDs and the cut off line is perfect
Daniel:
Your subjective impressions of the cutoff line have nothing to do with the distribution of light _under_ the cutoff, which is what determines the safety performance of the lamps.
Me:
The Color was great at 6k and easy to see.
Daniel:
"Color temperature" / "Kelvin rating" (correct terminology: CCT) is a real
phenomenon, but its use in the advertisement of automotive lighting
products is almost entirely fraudulent.
Me:
The High beam feature worked well.
Daniel:
The "high beam function" of so-called "BiXenon H4" kits doesn't work even minimally acceptably, let alone "well".
Me:
I've had him follow me and they didn't blind me at all.
Daniel:
Yet another subjective impression. We humans simply are not equipped to accurately judge how well or poorly we can see. Our impressions just don't match reality -- no matter how much or how little we know about the science of seeing or of headlamp performance. Throw a little sales bullshit in front of us ("6000K color temperature! Closer to natural daylight!") and we eat it up with a spoon -- we see what we want to see. And there's no shortage of ignorant babble all over the internet ("HID kits are fine! Just aim the lamps down so they don't glare!" -- Yeah, great, now your seeing distance is about 30 whole, entire feet...real smart.)
Me:
What color light do your bulbs put off?
Daniel:
White. Xenon, LED, and filament-bulb lamps are three completely different technologies. They all produce white light. They produce light using wholly different means, and therefore they look different. They're supposed to look different.
Me:
There are lots of great detailed technical write ups on your website, but its pretty difficult to sell your lights with no pictures.
Daniel:
I do very well selling lamps to people who buy based on science and fact, not on bullshit and handwaving and irrelevancies like color temperature.
Me:
I haven't seen any pictures of bulb comparison.
Daniel:
Right. Know why? Because photos of beam patterns, operating lamps, or operating bulbs are useless (at best) even if the photographer has the best of intent. The human visual system's dynamic range is several orders of magnitude greater than that of any imaging system, whether film or digital.
Me:
I'm looking at the H4 bulbs and have no Idea which ones I would want to buy. Descriptions aren't very specific.
Daniel:
That depends on what you're trying to achieve. If you want your headlamps to look like HIDs, there is no halogen bulb that'll do it. If you want to see properly and have safe headlamps, there's a wide range of bulbs that'll do it. Which ones to pick depends on factors such as headlamp height, vehicle headlamp circuit configuration, and intended usage.
Me:
I will buy one set of the headlights with the bulbs you recommend and put HID's in the other one as a comparison.
Daniel
Happy to work with you on this if you'd like, but before you spend the money, let's make sure it's not going to be a waste. Exactly what points of comparison do you have in mind? Comparing spurious factors like "whiteness" or "color temperature" might be fun, but that's all it would be.
Now I have to Decide again What route I want to go with my headlamps :roll:
