Extrude Hone stock Ex. manifolds?????

[James Thomas]

Re: Extrude Hone stock Ex. manifolds?????

Yes will port match and do all the grinding I want first. I was just on there site and there "price list"
http://www.gethoned.com/parts.php?get_price=yourparts&show=automotive shows V-6 exhaust as:
AUTOMOTIVE EXHAUST MANIFOLDS V6 Cylinder Exhaust-Iron Level I ? - $579 & Turbo housings as: AUTOMOTIVE INTAKE MANIFOLD all others Turbo Impellers & Housing Level I ? - Contact Us .


I just wanna know who has real test number that support enough difference to pay the $600 for our manifolds and if anyone has done our turbo housing's and upper / lower intake? Is it WORTH SIX BILLS for the stock mani's?

Thanks!

____________
James

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Extrude Hone stock Ex. manifolds?????

You will not get your moneys worth extrude honing them.(the exhaust maniflods)
You would be better off just porting them yourself or send out your manifolds to someone else.

Yes will port match and do all the grinding I want first. I was just on there site and there "price list"
http://www.gethoned.com/parts.php?get_price=yourparts&show=automotive shows V-6 exhaust as:
AUTOMOTIVE EXHAUST MANIFOLDS V6 Cylinder Exhaust-Iron Level I ? - $579 & Turbo housings as: AUTOMOTIVE INTAKE MANIFOLD all others Turbo Impellers & Housing Level I ? - Contact Us .


I just wanna know who has real test number that support enough difference to pay the $600 for our manifolds and if anyone has done our turbo housing's and upper / lower intake? Is it WORTH SIX BILLS for the stock mani's?

Thanks!

____________
James

 

[James Thomas]

Re: Extrude Hone stock Ex. manifolds?????

Ok I'll go for that but how do you know? Tried it, dyno, flow bench? I know some one out there has and the only thing I am trying to find out now I guess is why it's so hard to get the info? These aren't new truck or technoligy. Extrude Hone has been around for 20 + years and I know on several engin's with simular cast iron design's, the extrude process was good for 42 HP at 5100 rpm. 0260IN3 commented about testing........ so?

_________________
James

 

[LIL QIK]

Re: Extrude Hone stock Ex. manifolds?????

I too know of people that have done it but it was on n/a motors.....and it was definitely an improvement and proved on the chasis dyno........unfortunately I can't remember the improvement. But I have to admit......it would be nice to see some improvement numbers on a turbo application. I can't see it being a total waste.

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Extrude Hone stock Ex. manifolds?????

Now, the several engines w/simlar manifolds,,,, were those turbocharged applications?
Ask Ghettosled ,Mike if he has done a back to back comparison .
From stock manifolds & then switching to headers.
There was another guyhere in Canada stating,,you'd be surprised @ the results of manifolds compared to turbo header manifolds.
Maybe ask that guy for numbers.???

Ok I'll go for that but how do you know? Tried it, dyno, flow bench? I know some one out there has and the only thing I am trying to find out now I guess is why it's so hard to get the info? These aren't new truck or technoligy. Extrude Hone has been around for 20 + years and I know on several engin's with simular cast iron design's, the extrude process was good for 42 HP at 5100 rpm. 0260IN3 commented about testing........ so?

_________________
James

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Extrude Hone stock Ex. manifolds?????

I too know of people that have done it but it was on n/a motors.....and it was definitely an improvement and proved on the chasis dyno........unfortunately I can't remember the improvement. But I have to admit......it would be nice to see some improvement numbers on a turbo application. I can't see it being a total waste.

I am not saying it would be a total waste.
But comparing a guy w/a grinder VS. extrude hone & no grinding.
I bet the guy w/a grinder that knows what he is doing will get more improvement.
Having your manifolds ported is not going to cost you $600.00
My friend here can port them for you. http://www.proheads.com/
Ask for Dave

 

[0260IN3]

Re: Extrude Hone stock Ex. manifolds?????

We tested some headers vs. ported manifolds on our engine dyno oo one of our 700+/- hp turbo V6 with a SYTY PT74 turbo. The headers made 10 more HP at 5200 but the same or less than the manifolds everywhere else. The manifolds and stock crossover also made considerably more torque than the headers.............everywhere.

With a bigger turbo, Brodix Heads, and a higher RPM engine (solid roller race setup) the headers I'm sure would show more, but the manifolds do work very well for what they are.

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Extrude Hone stock Ex. manifolds?????

0260IN3
Do you remember the primary tube diameter of the headers you tested?
Thanks!!!

 

[SY2455]

Re: Extrude Hone stock Ex. manifolds?????

We tested some headers vs. ported manifolds on our engine dyno oo one of our 700+/- hp turbo V6 with a SYTY PT74 turbo. The headers made 10 more HP at 5200 but the same or less than the manifolds everywhere else. The manifolds and stock crossover also made considerably more torque than the headers.............everywhere.

With a bigger turbo, Brodix Heads, and a higher RPM engine (solid roller race setup) the headers I'm sure would show more, but the manifolds do work very well for what they are.

Were these manifolds Jet hot coated or Ceramic coated as well?

 

[0260IN3]

Re: Extrude Hone stock Ex. manifolds?????

They were 1 5/8 tube size headers

The manifolds were coated.

 

[LIL QIK]

Re: Extrude Hone stock Ex. manifolds?????

I am not saying it would be a total waste.
But comparing a guy w/a grinder VS. extrude hone & no grinding.
I bet the guy w/a grinder that knows what he is doing will get more improvement.
Having your manifolds ported is not going to cost you $600.00
My friend here can port them for you. http://www.proheads.com/
Ask for Dave

I see what you're saying....and I wasn't trying to say one was better than the other. I, myself, plan on getting the porting done and then coming back with the extrude hone. I just feel that the extrude hone is going to find the natural flow of things and take out where needed.....to include area's where someone might not be able to get to with the bits. Not to mention the fact that the finished polish of the extrude home flat out looks nice. I guess I'm just thinking that if it happens to be in the budget.......it won't do anything but help. Plus.......I was surprised to see how much the extrude hone actually took out.

All this of course....is just my opinion.

Oh.....and thanks for the link above.....I'll definitely look into it.

 

[QUICK STORM]

Re: Extrude Hone stock Ex. manifolds?????

all i can tell you is that my whole engine is port matched

-BBK 58mm TB port matched to upper intake
-upper intake, gasket/port matched and polished, to lower intake
-lower intake, gasket/port matched and polished, to cylinder heads
-cylinder heads, gasket/port mached and polished to exhaust manifolds
-exhaust manifolds extrude honed and ported, to crossover
-exhaust manifold to turbo exhaust housing port matched
-exhaust housing 3in outlet to 3in down pipe matched

this should make for some real good flow

 

[James Thomas]

Re: Extrude Hone stock Ex. manifolds?????

We tested some headers vs. ported manifolds on our engine dyno oo one of our 700+/- hp turbo V6 with a SYTY PT74 turbo. The headers made 10 more HP at 5200 but the same or less than the manifolds everywhere else. The manifolds and stock crossover also made considerably more torque than the headers.............everywhere.

With a bigger turbo, Brodix Heads, and a higher RPM engine (solid roller race setup) the headers I'm sure would show more, but the manifolds do work very well for what they are.

Now this is good info! Ok so that tells me that the stock mani's have better than average potential and would most likely be better or shift the power band a little higher with the grinder work being done and then Extrude Hone? Any thoughts on that line of thinking?

If correct, then ported and Extrude Honed manifolds would be the hot set up for every body from stock to "fairly modified but short of full race", I mean hell most of the guys are running smaller than a 76mm turbo anyway and I'm gonna run a 67 Dual BB. Plenty good for high 10's / low 11's. Now that would also mean that there are no B/S fitment problems, cracking welds or super high prices, lets say roughly $200 for sent out pro grinder work (couple of hours of your time if it's DIY), $580 for the Extrude Hone (less on a group purchase according to the web site), $250 or less for ceramic heat coating (group discount applies.

Total cost $600.00 - $900.00 (depending on actual cost and if you run the grinder), works with other mods., no fit problems or re-welding worries, more torque across the band (which is where its at on the street and the short times!) roughly half the cost or less than headers. Hmmmm........ does any one smell "group hone" :tup: !! I'm calling Extrude Hone Monday and getting a price for 4-5 sets or more and see what we can do here.
_____________
James

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Extrude Hone stock Ex. manifolds?????

I would say, save your money. Unless you just want to spend the money???
Just get them ported.
Extrude hone looks nice ,,,but I doubt (very seriously) you will see any big gains.As it is these manifolds crack sometimes as thick castings, extrude honeing will just make them thinner & more likely crack sooner. :2cents:

 

[James Thomas]

Re: Extrude Hone stock Ex. manifolds?????

I would say, save your money. Unless you just want to spend the money???
Just get them ported.
Extrude hone looks nice ,,,but I doubt (very seriously) you will see any big gains.As it is these manifolds crack sometimes as thick castings, extrude honeing will just make them thinner & more likely crack sooner. :2cents:

Agreed but look at all the headers that have to be welded up, repaired etc.. Also keep in mind that as a casting, if it's going to crack it usually will before 30,000 miles. If it makes it past that with the normal heat "stress" cycling then I doubt it will be a problem. I feel better with a high mile set of manifolds than a set of used ATR's. I also know that more than a few of the cracked manifolds have been caused by "spreaders" cheater pipes, 3/4 breaker bars and the like trying to line them back up and install them improperly. Stressed cold then flash fried, I am supprised that more haven't been damaged .

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Extrude Hone stock Ex. manifolds?????

I would not switch to headers unless I had a race engine & wanted every bit of HP I could get out of it.
Remember what that guy (0260IN3 )
findings 10 HP difference between cast manifolds vs. tubular headers?
Not worth the headache of headers possibly cracking, need repair, leaking, etc.
Don't get me wrong headers are great, but really only necessary for all out HP racing applications,
or ,,,like I said if you just like to spend money.
People have tested KB headers vs, stock exhaust manifolds & had no difference in track performance. (Stock engines were talking here)
So basically I was trying to say, you would be wasteing your money extrude honeing them on top of porting them.
Goodluck on your decision!!

 

[ghettosled]

Re: Extrude Hone stock Ex. manifolds?????

It all depends on the build.. Low RPM, Big Torque the manifolds will come on quicker and faster (same as using a small A/R turbine housing)

Have better flowing cylinder heads, a cam that revs to 6,000 and you will see a more noticeable difference by switching to the headers.. I was told the headers made 30 more hp but lost torque down low (same motor as mentioned), but there will be further testing coming up shortly with a motor built/tuneup to take advantage of the larger tubing (heavily ported vortec heads, better cam). If your heads only flow so much, it doesnt matter if you have 1.5", 1.625, or 1.75" headers.. It will only flow what the heads/turbo are capable of.

This is one of the reasons we strongly oppose to people trying to bolt them on to stock motors.

But in all honesty, 700hp is 700hp. If you can do it on stock manifolds that are not as prone to cracking then what else can you ask for...

Its hard to compare apples to apples but the stock manifolds are designed for low rpm, pump gas a/f ratios.. The headers will need more RPM, a cleaner a/f ratio and better flowing heads if you expect any real gains.

 

[0260IN3]

Re: Extrude Hone stock Ex. manifolds?????

It all depends on the build.. Low RPM, Big Torque the manifolds will come on quicker and faster (same as using a small A/R turbine housing)

Have better flowing cylinder heads, a cam that revs to 6,000 and you will see a more noticeable difference by switching to the headers.. I was told the headers made 30 more hp but lost torque down low (same motor as mentioned), but there will be further testing coming up shortly with a motor built/tuneup to take advantage of the larger tubing (heavily ported vortec heads, better cam). If your heads only flow so much, it doesnt matter if you have 1.5", 1.625, or 1.75" headers.. It will only flow what the heads/turbo are capable of.

This is one of the reasons we strongly oppose to people trying to bolt them on to stock motors.

But in all honesty, 700hp is 700hp. If you can do it on stock manifolds that are not as prone to cracking then what else can you ask for...

Its hard to compare apples to apples but the stock manifolds are designed for low rpm, pump gas a/f ratios.. The headers will need more RPM, a cleaner a/f ratio and better flowing heads if you expect any real gains.

100% agreed with Mike. Headers are much better with a bigger cam and more heads. It all depends on what you want.