Explain how Money-Racing-Works?

[NOJIMMY]

I really don't understand how "illegal" dragracing for money works? I assume its done
on both streets and at strips, but ....

-is racing for money at strips "one on one" with the rules determined on the fly for money?
(seems like a person would not want their ETs/MPH displayed). In other words,
kinda like "Pinks" only money passes hands rather than titles in da pits?

-is racing for money at strips an "organized" event where people with fast cars just
show up at a track, pay their entrance money, and then make side wagers/arrangements?
Kind of a winner takes all (da pot, for instance)?

-is racing for money on the street "organized" where a "neutral" party holds onto some
amount of money from each party, and the winner (along side the loser) afterwards
agree upon race results, whereby the winner gets the purse.
(This just seem fraught with issues like 1) what happens in a tie, or 2) how do you
know its a 1/4 mile and not more or less - thus affecting vehicles "pulling hard"
in the last few lengths, or 3) crooks who rob those at gun point either before
or after a race, cuz they know you have cash, or 4) welshing out on payment -
since I doubt there is recourse in demanding payment).

-is racing for money on the street profitable for those with vehicle like ours, since
syty's are AWD and pretty stealthy and hi-perf oriented/fast? (It would seem
that other owners would just not race GN, or SY/TYs knowing this fact tho)?

Heck, maybe its taboo to not discuss any of the above questions, or illegal or something.
I just wondered, as I see it mentioned in some threads or on some bulletin boards.
Can't believe the movie Fast-n-Furious on local streets or at strips is actually
"conducted" like this (ie two "gangs" of car owners race each - forcing owners
to belong to one gang or the other to participate).

Wasnt much in google when I did a subject matter search on the above :lol:

-Larry

 

[midnightbluS10]

Re: Explain how Money-Racing-Works?

This mustang article has some good general info in it. I don't actually street race, so I don't know how far from fact it may be.

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/features/0408mm_new_york_street_racing/

 

[Ground Rat]

Re: Explain how Money-Racing-Works?

Racing for money is a little different everywhere you go. Half the battle is negotiating the race. You've got to figure out who gets the hit, how many lengths, who the flagger is, how they flag it, how long the race is, and how much money. Sometimes there are other variations, such as one car having to "clear" the other before the finish. Generally a nuetral party holds the money and someone from each "crew" is at the agreed upon finish, spotting. Most people accept the rule "a chase is a race", where one guy steals the hit (leaves early) and if the other car's headlights move, it's a race. If the other car doesn't move, they generally just line up again. It's important to get all the details cleared up before the race so there isn't any problem collecting the money after you win. Hope that helps you.

 

[NOJIMMY]

Re: Explain how Money-Racing-Works?

Racing for money is a little different everywhere you go. Half the battle is negotiating the race. You've got to figure out who gets the hit, how many lengths, who the flagger is, how they flag it, how long the race is, and how much money. Sometimes there are other variations, such as one car having to "clear" the other before the finish. Generally a nuetral party holds the money and someone from each "crew" is at the agreed upon finish, spotting. Most people accept the rule "a chase is a race", where one guy steals the hit (leaves early) and if the other car's headlights move, it's a race. If the other car doesn't move, they generally just line up again. It's important to get all the details cleared up before the race so there isn't any problem collecting the money after you win. Hope that helps you.

WOW...thanks guys. It does sound complicated tho, so if I may ask....

- (If a hit = who leaves first) then is the flagger eliminated? (as it would seem to be not needed).
And is headlight movement considered "leaving"?
- (How many lengths) Is this based on your gut-negotiation skills? (or anything tangible).
- (How they flag it) Is this by flashlight, or handwaving, or something?
- (Clearing the other before the finish) Is this the same as "car lengths" ahead of someone?
And if this criteria isnt met, do they have to race again, or just not hand over the purse?
- (A chase is a race) So "if" a person left early, and the other person pursued,
its considered a race (and the winner takes the money)?
Otherwise, do they race again? Seems like "playing the waiting-game"
if you "have the hit" has some definite advantages.

Ive been hearing that some states confiscate your vehicle if caught. AND
onlookers can be arrested or charged (even if they were not driving or in a car).
It also sounds like cars with turbos, superchargers, or nitrous have a more difficult
time getting races (but maybe thats domestic cars and not modified imports).

Im used to the OLD OLD days, when even the factory "sponsored" street race
cars to promote their dealerships. There were some famous hemi cars
in LA and on Woodward that had MOPAR backing for instance. The slogan used to be
win on friday, sell (in dealerships) on Monday. As a kid I used to work as a runner
in a GM dealership that sold Yenko's, Baldwin Motion, and other such factory iron
(I dont know how, but I used to wash/wax new 427 Novas, Cameros and Chevelles
transported to this shop). Little did I know what these vehicles would bring today

...kinda funny that in 1993 I got the same feeling at the Emich Dealership in Denver
when they had 10+ Typhoons on their lot to choose from. Sill have (somewhere) their
infamous "dealer checklist" to spot modified Ty's (to rule out dealer warrantee service).

-Larry

 

[Ground Rat]

Re: Explain how Money-Racing-Works?

- (If a hit = who leaves first) then is the flagger eliminated? (as it would seem to be not needed).
And is headlight movement considered "leaving"?

If someone is supposed to get the hit, then there is no flagger. If the race is supposed to be heads-up or whatever and there is a flagger, then it's possible for someone to steal the hit and leave early. If you leave early and the other guy gets nervous and gives his car a little gas so that it lurches forward a bit then stops, many still conisider that a race. In that case the winner (even if it's the guy that left early) takes the money. Not everyone races this way though, so it's important to clear up all the details beforehand.

- (How many lengths) Is this based on your gut-negotiation skills? (or anything tangible).

Basically. It's pretty important to know your cars, even though you won't be able to spot everything done to a car. Some guys won't even pop their hood.

- (How they flag it) Is this by flashlight, or handwaving, or something?

I've seen people flag just about anyway you can think of. Dropping the hands is pretty common though.

- (Clearing the other before the finish) Is this the same as "car lengths" ahead of someone?
And if this criteria isnt met, do they have to race again, or just not hand over the purse?

Clearing another car just means that the spotters need to see a gap between the rear bumper of the faster car and the front bumper of the slower car. If you don't clear a car you are supposed to, you loose the race so you loose the money.

- (A chase is a race) So "if" a person left early, and the other person pursued,
its considered a race (and the winner takes the money)?
Otherwise, do they race again? Seems like "playing the waiting-game"
if you "have the hit" has some definite advantages.

If both cars leave it's a race, whether someone left early or not. There aren't any "do-overs". Well maybe there are if it's just some high school kids racing for $20, hahaha. Reaction time is very important.

So that's basically how it works, but nothing is set in stone. Money racing means any two cars can race. It's really just about hustling and making money, not so much who has a faster car.

 

[NOJIMMY]

Re: Explain how Money-Racing-Works?

...thanks, Info Much Appreciated.

-Larry

 

[ShuggsRR]

Re: Explain how Money-Racing-Works?

With a Sy/Ty you can usually give someone the wiggle and still come out ahead. So if you give the civic 5 and the wiggle you know youll beat em and take this $500 they threw down on the race.

hehe

From my expeince there are a few starts of choice. one you can have a race "flagged". This is where a "flagger" gets out in the road, stands infront of the cars. Its like a human christmas tree, when the cars are "staged" the flagger raises one arm, then the other and as soo as the arms start to drop the race starts.

You can also start by giving someone the "wiggle", the "break" the leave" or whatever you call it in yoru area. This is where you give the kid in the stock 5.0 start the race whenever he wants and you play catchup. So if you have a syclone Vs a 2000hp camaro running stock tires, you know that he will have traction problems so you can give him the leave. But if its a Civic and you think that a fair race would be to give him 5 car lengths and the leave... that called 5 and the wiggle, or 5 and the break or 5 and the leave.

Anyway, ask any street racer and you will see that the majority of street racing is arguing, shit talking and BS. 30 minutes of arguing about the race, 10 minutes to drive to the race, 12 seconds to run the race plus 5 minutes to get away from the cops.

Hardcore street racers will never show you thier setups. Often they will never open thier hoods for ANYONE. Not even close friends. They are in the game of playing stock and slow but cleaning up on the streets. Once a car starts to win too much they cant find anymore races and its time for a new ride or new scene.

Theres a bit more info for you.

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Explain how Money-Racing-Works?

I guess for straight up races, no one leaves on 3rd beep anymore...

 

[myclone]

Re: Explain how Money-Racing-Works?

I guess for straight up races, no one leaves on 3rd beep anymore...

I wouldnt say "no one" . I can think of one person :myclone:

 

[ShuggsRR]

Re: Explain how Money-Racing-Works?

I guess for straight up races, no one leaves on 3rd beep anymore...

Ive seen the 3rd beep on TV for races from a roll, but from my experience I have never seen it in real life. I used to ride motorcycles and roll with a bunch of drag bike guys in Chicago. In 98 I had a 94 CBR900RR with 124.5hp at the rear. It ran 10.6 @ 132. lowered, full exhaust, timing advancer, elec shifter, ceramic coated headers, header wrap, steering damper, etc etc Thought I was Johnny drag racer.

 

[ShuggsRR]

Re: Explain how Money-Racing-Works?

I guess for straight up races, no one leaves on 3rd beep anymore...

Yeah and a straight up race is also called a "heads up" race. "We are gonna race heads up with the flag. Hey Cleetus, go flag the race. Its gonna be up, up go on down."

 

[myclone]

Re: Explain how Money-Racing-Works?

Ive seen the 3rd beep on TV for races from a roll, but from my experience I have never seen it in real life.

Different locations do it differently.. Ive rarely seen or been in a race where someone flags the start. Its always leave on the 3rd honk...now who get the move, how much money, etc seems to be negotiated the same everywhere Ive been though.

BTW, roll racing is :rainbow: very few ppl will even entertain the thought of it that I know of around here...go from a dig or go home. Lengths are frowned upon (least around here) over anything more than a car length as well...kind of the "run what ya brung and hope ya brung enuff" type thing I guess. Ive seen other areas where ppl are negotiating 5, 8, 10 car lengths (thats before "pinks" was on tv) which I look at as kinda gay-ish since to me its like picking a fight with a big dude but then negotiating that you get to shoot him twice first...doesnt prove anything.

 

[gjp]

Re: Explain how Money-Racing-Works?

BTW, roll racing is :rainbow: very few ppl will even entertain the thought of it that I know of around here...go from a dig or go home. Lengths are frowned upon (least around here) over anything more than a car length as well...kind of the "run what ya brung and hope ya brung enuff" type thing I guess. Ive seen other areas where ppl are negotiating 5, 8, 10 car lengths (thats before "pinks" was on tv) which I look at as kinda gay-ish since to me its like picking a fight with a big dude but then negotiating that you get to shoot him twice first...doesnt prove anything.

we use hands where I have raced. The quote about the car lengths I agree with. Why give the guy a head start just because you spent more cash and have a faster car? Its heads up..fender to fender or I wont race. I had hondas turm me away while I was in my stang. They would not race?

 

[ShuggsRR]

Re: Explain how Money-Racing-Works?

Yeah its a rare thing to see somsone give any lengths, but ive seen it. I ran head up one night on my 98 Magna vs a 99 R1. Cept he started with his key on the ground. lol

 

[gjp]

Re: Explain how Money-Racing-Works?

for fun I have given lengths or have been given some. With the stang my friend gave me till he saw my tail lights then he would launch.(he has STI) At the end we were always even.

 

[willyson]

Re: Explain how Money-Racing-Works?

which I look at as kinda gay-ish since to me its like picking a fight with a big dude but then negotiating that you get to shoot him twice first...doesnt prove anything.

:rotf: thats a great analogy, i think it just made my day!

 

[Ground Rat]

Re: Explain how Money-Racing-Works?

Why give the guy a head start just because you spent more cash and have a faster car?

The beauty of a money race is that any two cars can race. It's not about who has the faster ride, it's about making money. If you want to see who has the faster car, go to the track.

BTW I'm not knocking heads up racing at all; I love it. I'm just explaining why people give each other lengths and/or the move.

 

[chelo]

Re: Explain how Money-Racing-Works?

Ground rat is right. At least here in Norcal. You have to give at least a few lenghts. I've seen it. That's if you wan't to race. Not all the time. Oh by the way. A few quick folks are taking a couple quick cars to Texas soon. Seems they were called out. Boys pack up their shit and travel.

 

[myclone]

Re: Explain how Money-Racing-Works?

The beauty of a money race is that any two cars can race. It's not about who has the faster ride, it's about making money. If you want to see who has the faster car, go to the track.

BTW I'm not knocking heads up racing at all; I love it. I'm just explaining why people give each other lengths and/or the move.

Ground rat is right. At least here in Norcal. You have to give at least a few lenghts. I've seen it. That's if you wan't to race. Not all the time. Oh by the way. A few quick folks are taking a couple quick cars to Texas soon. Seems they were called out. Boys pack up their shit and travel.

Everyone loves heads up racing...I dont think thats in question. Personally (as well as most ppl I know) just dont get wanting more than a length. Yeah, negotiating the move is a given and maybe a car length but after that we (we=I and ppl I know) just dont get the point in it. Bring a fast enough car or dont race if youre worried about losing the race or your money.

If its all about making money then sand bag so you barely beat the other guy. That will get you TONS of races (races=money) since everyone and their brother will think theyve got a chance at taking your money. This way its a heads up race and you go home with a pocket full of coin (unless you didnt bring enough car and get trounced by someone else whos sand bagging).

I dunno guys....I always thought the point in it all was seeing who had the faster car or if youre in it for the money then its all about taking EVERYONES money not just one guy. Id rathe win $50 off of ten ppl than $250 off of one person :dunno: .

 

[gjp]

Re: Explain how Money-Racing-Works?

Ground rat is right. At least here in Norcal. You have to give at least a few lenghts. I've seen it. That's if you wan't to race. Not all the time. Oh by the way. A few quick folks are taking a couple quick cars to Texas soon. Seems they were called out. Boys pack up their shit and travel.

not where I race. So I can bust out my pinto and have a guy in a 90K car give me 30 lenghts?? Why, thats like having a drinking contest and the fat guy has to take 2 shots before you start. Or giving ugly girls free implants so they can get laid too.
Most guys no their limmits and if a stock honda wants to race me for cash thats his f-ing loss. :2cents:
and I am not bashing that kind of racing too. Thats why I dont do it.