Drivetrain failure, PLEASE HELP!

[SY2932]

Re: Drivetrain failure, PLEASE HELP!

The 4 pinion planetaries hold up really well. Just don't let him put aftermarket 5 pinion planetaries in it.

What's the huryde site?

Ditto on the aftermarket 5 pinion planetaries, many folks have been seduced by the low prices of the aftermarket ones. However the lower price is a result of the parts being manufactured by inferior metallurgy and/or hardening making them actually weaker than OEM 4 pinion planetaries.

The huryde trans tech page is HERE.

If you want a new torque converter but don't want to refinance your house to get one, consider getting a Hughes Performance:

"3K stall TC w/lock up part #HP2230L $412.75 on 10/03 through paceparts.com list price is $956.37."

I have been running one on my truck for a year now and have no complaints . I know several others are running this converter as well. Driveabilty is great even though I still have the stock turbo. At cruise, I can go from vacuum to 15 pounds of boost in about a second... I made my 12.5 pass last year with this TC. Just remember if you get a high stall converter, you NEED an aux trans cooler so that you don't kill your trans from the additional heat. While you're at it, a remote trans filter and trans temp gauge wouldn't be a bad idea .

 

[nightdiver]

Re: Drivetrain failure, PLEASE HELP!

hard shift = insuranse
the Hughes unit will work fine and your tranny builder looks like he knows(loves) his job .

I didnt block the 4th accum hole but i used the brown spring and the shim , spacer, Blake send. He also told me to block it if i want it but there were some parts in the past that broke with this mod.

 

[TYRODD]

Re: Drivetrain failure, PLEASE HELP!

Ditto on the aftermarket 5 pinion planetaries, many folks have been seduced by the low prices of the aftermarket ones. However the lower price is a result of the parts being manufactured by inferior metallurgy and/or hardening making them actually weaker than OEM 4 pinion planetaries.

The huryde trans tech page is HERE.

If you want a new torque converter but don't want to refinance your house to get one, consider getting a Hughes Performance:

"3K stall TC w/lock up part #HP2230L $412.75 on 10/03 through paceparts.com list price is $956.37."

I have been running one on my truck for a year now and have no complaints . I know several others are running this converter as well. Driveabilty is great even though I still have the stock turbo. At cruise, I can go from vacuum to 15 pounds of boost in about a second... I made my 12.5 pass last year with this TC. Just remember if you get a high stall converter, you NEED an aux trans cooler so that you don't kill your trans from the additional heat. While you're at it, a remote trans filter and trans temp gauge wouldn't be a bad idea .

Werd, thats what I needed to know

I am running stock, no power mods

. If I could spool that fast...dayum that would be fun!

And I do want a lockup TC...As it is a DD. With the tranny cooler, I plan on bypassing the stock completely since it is the suck anyway

. I will go with a Tekonsha HD (RV towing unit, 25+K rated) and a compatable filter. I will figure out a way to mount a stealth guage too

. I will also be using a deeper pan

.

I checked out a few 700 DIYs, including Huryde's. In the short time that I've been studying ATs (like 1 week

) , my knowledge on them has increased ten-fold. Not nearly such an extreme concept to grasp as I once thought. Still wouldnt trust myself to build one for myself, but there may be a practice build sometime in the future

!

Anyway, I'll be at the shop tomorrow, getting some quotes

.

Thanks again!

 

[nightdiver]

Re: Drivetrain failure, PLEASE HELP!

Ha ha, i printed a book with all the mods and WHY they are made, to have handy with the manuals together. I can take a look at any details like Servo clearanse adjustment and i dont have to dig in the files in my laptop

 

[Crimson93Ty]

Re: Drivetrain failure, PLEASE HELP!

What did you tell the guy you needed? $1000 converter for a stock truck?
Make sure he's building you what you need and isn't just trying to sell you a bunch of parts. SY2932 recommended the Hughes converter. That price seemed really good as well.
Those parts I told you about shouldn't run more than $1200 including clutches, steels, bushings,bearings and a pump with a hardened stator. If your entire geartrain was torn up then you will probably be better off starting with a core and swapping in your governor, servos, output shaft, valvebody and separator plate. I think 4 pinion planetaries with the oil cover thing are only like $65 new. 4 pinion front planetaries are really cheap. I've got 2 in my garage. That just seemed like a lot of money. Are they cryo treating everything? What kind of clutches? Make sure they are willing to tell you what went into it in an itemized list so you know what you paid for. IMHO it's not worth thousands to pay for super secret stuff they won't share with you.
I don't know where the things that you would want would make the truck shift too violently.
Best of luck and I hope you get your truck back soon.

 

[TYRODD]

Re: Drivetrain failure, PLEASE HELP!

I stopped by the shop today to check out the gore, my front planetary was in 5+ large pieces

. I bring it home and take pics

. Its shrapnel destroyed nearly everything else. full rebuild.

Here's the list so far...

Overrun clutch...9.10
friction plate(reverse)...15.88
forward plate...20.60
lo/rev. front...21.50
steel overrun 2.24mm...6.60
ppk 3-4 kit (9pac)...68.02
3-4 valve kit...46.80
jr shift kit (700)...34.72
700 combo kit 82-93...42.80
Input sprag assy., late...40.00
l/r sprag 700/4l60e...31.21
forward sprag...58.11
forward clutch drum late...42.86
4l60e reverse drum...138.66
beast sun shell...68.58
Front planet assy....42.86
rear planet (5 pinion, will probably be using a 4 instead)...105.72
frg and hub 4-piece...80.00
frt sun gear 14.34
h/e band 700/4l60e...26.46
700 accumulater piston update...3.09
brg. kit 82-up 700r4...28.86
13 vane rotor kit...40.28
washer, reaction shaft 700...2.88
700 s/s washer plastic...1.25
700 vette super servo(billet)...98.18
univ. sol 700/200r4
gov gear...5.24
TV boost valve 700...7.27
reverse boost valve...25.22

With the standard 700 rebuild stuff the total comes to..

$1187.67 (parts)
$440.00 (labor)
$13.20 (misc supplies)
$112.81 (NM tax 6.875%)

$1753.68 TOTAL

12 month, 12,000 mile warranty...not including failures from racing etc., Slade just told me, "Just dont neutral drop it and you'll be OK."

I am also adding a 28k gvr cooler, inline filter, and a deep pan. Bypassing stock cooler(may be more trouble than its worth with all the junk stuck in there).
The converter is where we're stuck at...a 2500 billet TC w/ lockup-11 hundo.
Or a 3000 for $500, the owner wanted to know where to find this TC...I did some serious drinking last night and couldnt remember

I would rather go 2500 since the truck is stock, but 11 hundred...nien!
If 3000 is going to be fun, and practical (fuel mileage)...then its done!

They seem pretty cool at the shop and not in a kiss ass way. Like I said, they knew a bit about the tranny's specific parts...but not a lot about the truck itself. They're all hyped up about seeing what it really is

Anyone see any problems with these parts?

 

[J_SULLIVAN]

Re: Drivetrain failure, PLEASE HELP!

.I did some serious drinking last night and couldnt remember

Gawd yes mate, you were pissed Well if you have good to great luck w/this rebuild I might just send mine out there WHEN mine takes a dump.

 

[turbodig]

Re: Drivetrain failure, PLEASE HELP!

Had a nice birthday surprise today

A little background info...
Ive been having a strange problem every once in a while, my drivetrain will bind up severely and I am unable to move in D or R unless I rock it back and forth a little, or give it gas (dont like forcing it). This occurs when I am coming from a stop, or when I have been parked. Also, I have had a low pitch whine/grind at low speeds; coming from or to a stop. The noise and vibration seems to stop once I am in second gear.

When I left for work this morning, my truck would not roll out of the driveway...so after a little nudge on the gas it SNAPPED into reverse and seemed to be fine all the way to work. After work, I was on my way to school and I experienced a nasty driveline vibration/noise/grinding and babied it to a parking spot. Checked the propshaft and driveline visually, seemed fine. Decided I needed to get the ty home an babied it back as best I could. Apperantly I couldnt baby it enough and things really let go

. As I left the parking lot 1st through 2nd were EXTREMELY violent, shaky, and scary. When the tranny finally shifted to third (didnt seem to want to shift, like something was bound up REAL bad) everything was "smooth" and pretty much like normal. I had to come to a stop unfortunatly, and it did the 1st through 2nd thing again, except 3rd wasnt any different. My top speed was 35, but my RPMs were everywhere

. Made a turn to go up my street (dont live far from the college at all) and the truck would not move, no forward gears and reverse really wasnt there either. Parked it.

I have limited knowledge on Automatic transmissions so please bear with me.

In any gear or not (P, N, R, OD, D, 2, 1) and the engine running, something is turning and grinding, sounds like trying to shift gears without depressing the clutch in a manual, just a loud GRIND. Checked the T-Case and Tranny fluids, T-Case is a little dark (blood colored) and the tranny fluid looks and smells fine. My truck is bone stock and RARELY driven hard, in fact my last boost launch was in Nov (at a track)

. I'm sitting at about 81k on the odometer, and this is my DD

.

IMO, this does not sound like a transmission problem, my tranny has shifted pretty damn perfect since Ive had it, and the TV is adjusted properly. Even on the way to work this morning it shifted great. The problem just seems too catastophic to be a tranny related, thats why I am pointing to the T-Case as the culprit.

Anyone had a problem like this? Ask me some questions if something is unclear. Any ideas are much appreciated!

Excuse me while I go pull my hair out.

Sounds a bit like the overrun sprag let go... I had that happen twice.
At any rate, get ready to go through your trans.

Later,

Dig

 

[JSM]

Re: Drivetrain failure, PLEASE HELP!

Local guy just blew up a sprage and 4 pinion planetary.

Actually I just got home at 4am from helping him build up a new trans.

I don't think you will be happy with 2500 myself. I think it would be too tight.

I had a 2800 with my stock turbo back then and liked it.

 

[GM TURBO]

Re: Drivetrain failure, PLEASE HELP!

Summit also sells the Hughes TC for $409.95.

 

[TYRODD]

Re: Drivetrain failure, PLEASE HELP!

Local guy just blew up a sprage and 4 pinion planetary.

Actually I just got home at 4am from helping him build up a new trans.

I don't think you will be happy with 2500 myself. I think it would be too tight.

I had a 2800 with my stock turbo back then and liked it.

Cool, 2800-3000 sounds better and cant beat the price

. Will this effect my MPG at all? Its shitty to begin with but hey

.

I take it all the buildup parts sound OK,... I'm excited to get this thing rolling again

.

 

[J_SULLIVAN]

Re: Drivetrain failure, PLEASE HELP!

Yeah you better get in rolling again because you can't miss Nats boy

 

[Crimson93Ty]

Re: Drivetrain failure, PLEASE HELP!

Here's the list so far...

Overrun clutch...9.10
friction plate(reverse)...15.88
forward plate...20.60
lo/rev. front...21.50
steel overrun 2.24mm...6.60
ppk 3-4 kit (9pac)...68.02
3-4 valve kit...46.80
jr shift kit (700)...34.72
700 combo kit 82-93...42.80
Input sprag assy., late...40.00
l/r sprag 700/4l60e...31.21
forward sprag...58.11
forward clutch drum late...42.86
4l60e reverse drum...138.66
beast sun shell...68.58
Front planet assy....42.86
rear planet (5 pinion, will probably be using a 4 instead)...105.72
frg and hub 4-piece...80.00
frt sun gear 14.34
h/e band 700/4l60e...26.46
700 accumulater piston update...3.09
brg. kit 82-up 700r4...28.86
13 vane rotor kit...40.28
washer, reaction shaft 700...2.88
700 s/s washer plastic...1.25
700 vette super servo(billet)...98.18
univ. sol 700/200r4
gov gear...5.24
TV boost valve 700...7.27
reverse boost valve...25.22

With the standard 700 rebuild stuff the total comes to..

$1187.67 (parts)
$440.00 (labor)
$13.20 (misc supplies)
$112.81 (NM tax 6.875%)

$1753.68 TOTAL

You already have a 3-4 shift valve in your transmission.

The 9 clutch pack is inferior to the 7 stack Raybestos blues but the blues are more expensive.

There is nothing in the 700 Jr shift kit that they should use in your transmission. The springs in your valvebody are the stiffest available. This kit will actually soften the shift compared to what you had.

Sounds like they didn't use the update torrington reaction tube. That tube has a thicker wall where it splines into the rear planetary. It's a drop in but they have to use a specific matching torrington bearing. They're like $100 for the shaft and $15 for the torrington.

$105 for the rear planetary 5 pinion was DEFINITELY an aftermarket rear planetary. You do not want an aftermarket rear planetary in your truck. You need either a 5 pinion GM planetary ~$250 or a new 4 pinion planetary with the oil lid thing (~$65).

They should've used the 1 piece input sprag assembly. MANY updates to the design and the front "Little" sun gear is pressed into it to keep it from rocking and help prevent flipping of the sprag element. They run about $180. $40 for a sprag means they most likely are using a used element.

I don't see bonded pistons listed on there anywhere. It's possible they got a used input drum and it possibly has the bonded pistons already in it.

Just my opinion. They've already got it torn down and most likely rebuilt with all the used/refurbished part by now so don't worry about it. Get the Hughes converter the guys on here recommended and drive the piss out of it :tup:

 

[TYRODD]

Re: Drivetrain failure, PLEASE HELP!

They havent started building it just yet...I'll give the OK tomorrow after I straighten a few things out with them

.

I checked the huryde transmission tips & tricks and noticed the info on the valvebody springs...dont need the shift kit now!

I dunno why they left the 5 pinion rear on the list, I told them not to...

Oh well, its just a list right now, no harm done. Thats why I put the list on here, so that I could see what is going to work or not, before its installed.

I realy appreciate the help guys!

 

[SY2932]

Re: Drivetrain failure, PLEASE HELP!

You do not want an aftermarket rear planetary in your truck. You need either a 5 pinion GM planetary ~$250 or a new 4 pinion planetary with the oil lid thing (~$65).

FWIW, this is what the "oil slinger" on the rear planetary carrier looks like:

The rusty one has the oil slinger on the top covering the four planetary gears. The purpose of the shield is to keep the planetaries bathed in ATF. If you look closely at the rusty one, you will see that I stripped all the teeth out of the center of the carrier (syclone trans #1)...

 

[J_SULLIVAN]

Re: Drivetrain failure, PLEASE HELP!

You get your truck today?

 

[TYRODD]

Re: Drivetrain failure, PLEASE HELP!

You get your truck today?

No, but dont be surprised if you're tires get slashed at nats.




:rotf:

 

[TYRODD]

Re: Drivetrain failure, PLEASE HELP!

Well, I got her back today!

Turns out that the cause of my failure may have been the lack of TC lockup. My ECM harness behind the block was pinched sometime before I bought it. The TC lockup wire was severed and I've never had it. My ignorance about the the TCC may have cost me a great deal, I should have noticed it not engaging and not to mention my horrible MPG. Alls I can say about that is I've never had it, and one day not have it...kinda hard to tell somethings wrong when you cant notice it

Anyways, back to the rebuild. The truck feels totally different, the shifts are more crisp, especialy the 2-3 which feels just as hard as the 1-2. The 1-2 is now much "smoother" but its not slipping. Before the truck felt like it was winding up real tight in 1st and then BOOM into second, especially at part throttle. Now it just snaps into 2nd much more quickly than before, and it gets much firmer with more TP. @ 3k rpm the tires chirp into 2nd . Like I said, the 2-3 is just as firm if not more at part throttle. I think this suits it better for being a DD.

The TC lockup feels CRAZY. Its like shifting into another gear. In 3rd, around 2k it will lock up, so sometimes it feels like it locks immediately after I shift 2-3, that feels "funny". Its gonna take some time getting used to the TC lockup, feels way different.

The 3k is crazy also, turbo spools alot differently now.

I wont be doing any WOT blasts until I have it checked up at the shop, so another 200 miles before I can check the 3-4 WOT or see how quick the 3k stall will spool my TD-06 :rotf: .

Time to order a tranny guage! The shop installed a 18k cooler, as they had no room for the 30k behind the grill. I will probably run another 18k under the truck. The derale pan is pretty trick too, looks real high tech :rotf: .

Comments? Let me hear ya!

 

[TYRODD]

Re: Drivetrain failure, PLEASE HELP!

A little update.....

Dropped the truck off at the trans shop today for its scheduled 200 mile check up...Play time has begun

Took it out for its first boost launch with the new tranz, damn wicked! I didn't go too balls-out yet as I can tell the truck needs a tuneup soon. I wont know how crazy it is running till' this weekend....but I'm already all grins!

The shifts have tightened up considerably in the past 200 miles, I imagine it still needs a little time so....

I'm starting to get used to the 3k TC, its feels a little "detached" right now, not bad...just way different than before

Another good point is my MPG....I went from 12.8~13 city, to 15~15.5(and not grandpa stylee either!).....Awesome! :woot:
Lockup ownz again! :tup: :rotf: