converter

[Couger1968]

I was wondering your thoughts on torque converters. I am going to build my truck just a little over stock. I think I need about a 2400 stall.I was talking to b&m and they said to use a holeshot 2400 ,but tci said a street fighter. The street fighter looks to me like a 3000.They said that that number is based on a V-8 and a v-6 is a lot lower and would be close to 2400. I don't know. who to believe. Our trucks are in the same hp and tq as an 8 ,as well as rpm ,so should it not be around the same stall. I asked tci about a Saturday night special and they said it would stall at 1200. B&Ms are rated at 2400 so would it do the same.
Would running a higher stall hurt me? thanks

 

[ImperialStormTrooper]

Re: converter

That depends on if you want a streetable/daily driver truck or a weekend warrior.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: converter

What is your build goal? Tq will vary as your boost levels go up, dependent on turbo, heads, cam etc etc.

The only way to be really sure is to build your truck, dyno it and restall the converter to the truck. They're all different.

Recently there have been a few posts on this so do a search but if you're going with a bigger turbo, you will probably want a bigger stall. The stocker is only 2100 (+/- 50 or so) and 2400 isn't that far off.

You'll get a lot of answers on this as it's hard without the dyno sheet and your turbo specs.

FWIW, I saw the results of a 20G on a stock converter (laggy dog) and a Hughes 3000 (animal) and they were like night and day. 3000 is your max, 2400 sounds possible but as Imperial Storm Trooper said, what are your goals? The 3000 was stalling a lot higher than it was rated - a data log said about 3400 at the line - that was down to the higher boost = higher torque so you can end up going round in circles.

Aeroking did an interesting post recently...

You can always change them at the end of the day. About as much use as a chocolate teapot. I know

 

[Couger1968]

Re: converter

My truck is going to be pretty much stock. I do have a ultimate chip, rerouted and aux intercooler with fans,walbro fuel pump and reg,3 bar chip,msd 6 box for bolt ons.The only internal part is the cam.Cam is a crane 184211 - CompuCam
- Lift (I/E) - .407/.429
- Duration @ .050 (I/E) - 194/204
- Lobe Separation - 112 deg
I plan to drive the truck, and maybe once in a while take it to a strip. I have had it over 10 years and only took it twice. I really don't see myself upgrading to much farther. I want to be able to, if down the line, I sell it that I could be returned to stock like with if a person wants. The cam is very mild and I was told it would work with stock tuning.My real question is how do I get close to 2400.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: converter

What turbo?

If you want close to 2400 then buy a 2400 stall and then dyno it/restall it.

 

[Couger1968]

Re: converter

I have the stock turbo. I don't know who is right. TCI said a street fighter would be a 2400.B&M said use a holeshot 2400,but would that not actually be too low for me? I have no way of dynoing around here and live kind of in the sticks. I am restoring the truck and have to redo the body and so I am kind of on a budget and time scale.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: converter

Without changing your heads, your truck isn't going to benefit from a larger cam and a higher stall will just spool the stock turbo too fast. You'd be overboosting the turbo and harming your top end for no benefit.

 

[Icarus-54]

Re: converter

From what your saying your goals are I would go with a TCI Breakaway TC,stalls around 2500-2600.That will still cover you if you eventually went to a 20G W/12CM housing.

 

[Couger1968]

Re: converter

That sounds like what I thought.Why would TCI say a street fighter would stall 2500. I asked about the Saturday night special,because mike hood has it listed on his site, and they said it would only stall at 1000-1200 rpm.

 

[Couger1968]

Re: converter

I realize I am not getting any huge benefit, but my bearing were going bad and I wanted to replace everything internally. I could have went with a stock cam and been happy, but why not put a little better.It is actually not any bigger than an astro van cam.Kind of the same for the converter,my stock had shutter 8 years ago and I dumped some lube guard in it and it went away,but I never know when it is going to come back.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: converter

Different doesn't necessarily mean better... I know what you mean but I hope it works out for you as you could have problems. Your turbo will be operating in an inefficient part of its map so it will be hotter at higher boost levels so you'll need a different tune... and so it begins.

Stock is stock, anyt one change means you'll need to make more changes.

There are lots of trucks with "better" parts attached that don't go faster, mine included!!

 

[Couger1968]

Re: converter

I talked to mike hood about that he said something along that. I figure it will be close enough that I can get it running,work out the bugs,and then I could play with the tune to get it dialed in later. I don't have the time or the money to get into tuning right now ,so I was looking that maybe down the line I might get an emulator and play,but I wanted a little room to play with.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: converter

Why not keep it all stock, then get the emulator and tune for higher boost/alky?

You're basically saying you're going to upgrade the mechanical parts, not have them work right, can't afford to tune it so it runs properly and then try and go from a state of uncertainty to a better tune?

The appeal to do it while you're in there is understandable but you should listen to Mike Hood.. he's good at tuning.

Leave it all stock, get the tuning kit instead of the convertor and later either go with alky or a bigger turbo/converter combo...

:2cents:

 

[Couger1968]

Re: converter

The problem is my converter is questionable. I am not sure where to even get a stock converter. My ultimate does let me adjust boost and timing,but it all for stock. I have ran that for years.It is nice to be able to adjust for conditions on the fly.

 

[e95 Ty]

Re: converter

You posted a while back....said that you had some converter problems and possibly a transmission going bad. Make sure you get that transmission checked out before installing a new converter. It would suck to install a new converter just to have your trans blow and possibly get metal particles in your new converter, it can be a pain in the ass to get all the metal out, if you ever get them all out.:2cents: Just trying to save you trouble later on.

 

[Couger1968]

Re: converter

My trany I think is ok, but it never did shifted from 3-4 at wot. It seems to be good otherwise. I think I am going to have it checked by a shop if I can find one.I have always changed fluid and ran a cooler.The truck has 65000 miles on it.

 

[Couger1968]

Re: converter

I have not removed my factory cam, but you can tell it has some wear from what little I can see.It probably is normal wear. I just want to eliminate any issues inside I can think of. What started this whole process was I started to get a ticking sound a couple years ago. It was bad enough I could see it on my autoxray.I asked around and people thought it was a lifter. I changed the lifters and still had the exact same sound. Frustrated I parked it. I did more research and had a few said it might be lower bearings among other things that were hard to get to. I took everything apart and see I do have wear on my bearings(scratches and dark spots). Again I don't know if it is excessive,I don't have a lot of experience,but I thinks so. Now I just want to get it back to good. I have some rust and other repairs that need to be done so I have to watch what I spend. I have 4 other cars to work on. Most of my experience is precomputer and manual Ford. I figure I would change the cam and timing chain ,new rings and bearings and have rods checked. The cam I got a pretty good deal considering it is now a custom grind(not made any more) I got it less than a new cam through a store.I considered putting a factory cam in,but I didn't even know where to begin and most likely they would give me the wrong one.

 

[It's just a six]

Re: converter

Running a different cam for very restricted heads does help improve airflow.

For your set-up I would like to run a 114 lobe center camshaft, not 112. The duration on your camshaft is more than the stock original camshaft. It might effect the idle tune somewhat..

I have bolted on items such as pittbull chip, ultimate chip for stock injectors & have run pretty good.
I have never gone slower by installing a bolt on item..

I had to adjust the fuel pressure to get the WOT A/F ratios pretty close.

The thing that seem to give me problems, (but was not till much later) was when I installed the Ford Blue top 36 lb injectors, allthough it ran pretty good, just as fast if not faster the the stock injectors, the idle A/F ratio was a bit richer & could not pass smog.

This is why I am now I am just getting into the code59 tuning & allthough it's been frustrating, so far it's been going good & is a slow process.

Seat of the pants , it feels slower than when I ran the ultimate chip & 36 lb injectors, but like I said, I am just @ the beginning of the tuning phase, so it's nowhere near perfect.

Dont let the converter people tell you the V-6 does not make a converter stall as much as a V-8 does, because the turbo V-6 puts down some torque. Mine put down 560 ft lbs @ 21 psi 100% stock longblock & a 20G turbo.

If you want to use a 20G turbo w/a 14 cm turbine housing, IMO, 2600 would be the lowest stall I would go. I have a 12 cm housing & I believe a 2400 stall would be perfect for my combo. Not the best 1/4 mile stall but a best between street & strip.
2800 stall would be the highest I would go for a strip converter w/a standard 20G turbo.

My friend has a 9/11 converter & was on a very weak stock engine it would brake stall to 3400, way too much for a stock engine, his best ET @ a 3000 ft track was 13.6.
He also had a 20G turbo & could only get 4-5 psi of boost pressure floored w/the stock conveter.

 

[Couger1968]

Re: converter

Thanks for all the advise.I think it will be a breakaway or a holeshot