chip rant

[#2875]

i am installing an alky kit so i have been reading a lot about chips on this site and others.

all this talk of new chips, codes and chip burning is pretty interesting reading. from what i can gather today if you don't have a custom chip you don't have shit. two years ago if you didn't have an ultimate chip you didn't have shit... two years ago is when i bought my sy and started buying parts. the tools i use are an ultimate 50# vortec 412 chip, turbolink and a dynojet awd dyno.

i am a pretty busy dude, i don't have cable or satellite because i never sit down for more than 5 minutes unless i am sleeping. for this reason i am happy with my ultimate because it is turn-key. for the same reason i have not gotten into chip burning because it seems really time consuming and unnecessary. here's why:

on the dyno my trucks a/f mixture is flat all acrossed the board. on the 3rd pull my intake temps are a little warmer and i start to see 2-3 deg of knock retard. now i am no expert (seriously) but that tells me i am pretty close to my maximum potential.

reading some of the latest posts in chipping from other board members for a split second i can't help but feel belittled by some of the comments about custom chips being the only way to go. one guy says that if you have an "off the shelf chip" its not a question of if the engine will blow its when. WTF?

the "new code" which is supposed to tune the truck for you using a wb o2 seems like a really good idea but don't you still have to be pretty friggin' close to having a perfectly tuned chip because of the insane lag in wb corrections?

per the sellers instructions after buying my alky kit i called a VERY popular syty tuner/engine builder who told me (after i asked him to pretty please burn me a chip) that i could use the alky kit with the ultimate with no problems, a bunch of his customers are already doing that and making 700HP. then he proceeded to tell me how to do it.

i am open minded and not trying to piss anyone off i am just looking for answers or maybe some constructive criticism if i am way off.

 

[Jimmy]

Re: chip rant

Yeah you can use the Ultimate,but you'll have to turn the FP down. IMO I'd rather have the chip just lessen the duty cycle instead.

I'm sure you can dial it in pretty good using a WB.

 

[MRKING]

Re: chip rant

Yeah you can use the Ultimate,but you'll have to turn the FP down. IMO I'd rather have the chip just lessen the duty cycle instead.

I'm sure you can dial it in pretty good using a WB.

Yes but there will be a level of sacrifice . Say you want to lean out wot by lowering fp , you may develop lean conditions in other areas not during wot , and vice versa . I agree with a wb you can get it close to being good on a ultimate chip . I wouldnt try that without it .

 

[ashman]

Re: chip rant

ABSOLUTLEY....if you are "that busy"...by all means...stick with the ultimate.

the new code is "ALL THAT". BUT, it does require a WB and some time on someones part (not necessairly the owners) for proper tuning.

it's not for everyone...it's for people who enjoy playing with their tune and experimenting and trying to get the Nth degree of tune.

i'm really looking forward to the release, when some good tuning discussions can insue.

 

[#2875]

Re: chip rant

Yes but there will be a level of sacrifice . Say you want to lean out wot by lowering fp , you may develop lean conditions in other areas not during wot , and vice versa . I agree with a wb you can get it close to being good on a ultimate chip . I wouldnt try that without it .

i can lean or richen the wot fuel by pushing a button.

 

[SBNova]

Re: chip rant

Yes, but you ccan only richen up or lean out an area that is pre-determined in your tune.

It is great to see an off the shelf chip work well for you, but I am positive that its not optimum either. You say you have no KR, then as IAT's rise you get very little. Thats great, and does indeed indicate that your tune is close.

Just because you arent seeing KR doesnt mean that your whole spark and fuel table are optimized. When you get KR, it doesnt happen everywhere, just in certain parts of the curve. Maybe the other non-KR parts could be better tuned, and certainly the KR could be tuned out. There is a table for altering the spark advance vs. IAT's. You could tune it to NEVER have KR, no matter what the IAT's read. 2-3 degrees is acceptable, dont get me wrong. I am just stating that it could be even better. I pull alot of timing in my tunes at high IAT's. Sometimes I get in alot of stop and go traffic, where everything gets quite heat soaked, including my temper. When I finally get a clearing I want to nail it without having a bunch of knock, or engine damage.

Chip burning and tuning in general enables you to tune more specifically. I can lean out my air fuel ratio at 1600 rpms and 60kpa , specifically, which is usually my cruise area, without changing any other fueling or spark areas and get better mileage without sacrificing power, safety, or reliability. You just cant do that with an off the shelf chip or fuel pressure adjustment.

Chip tuning is time consuming because for most people there is alot to learn. If it interests you, then you wont mind spending the time. The Autotune software takes a huge chunk out of time spent though. You can process a 30 minute log session and positively alter yor fuel table in a matter of 2 or 3 minutes. Tuning is not for everyone, but if you have a desire to learn and truly optimize the tune of your truck it can be very rewarding.

 

[10secTy]

Re: chip rant

I think you talked to me and the trucks making 700hp with meth are custom tuned.

Like I told you on the phone. Get a wideband on the truck and see where you are at.

It you can set it up to have 12-1 airfuel ratio all thru the boost up to 25psi you are golden.

You can then select a high timing setting and start spraying meth on top of the tune so you get in the 10.5 air fuel ration range.

It really is simple. And no there is not off the shelf custom tune that can be just burnt and sent to you.

Nolan

i am installing an alky kit so i have been reading a lot about chips on this site and others.

all this talk of new chips, codes and chip burning is pretty interesting reading. from what i can gather today if you don't have a custom chip you don't have shit. two years ago if you didn't have an ultimate chip you didn't have shit... two years ago is when i bought my sy and started buying parts. the tools i use are an ultimate 50# vortec 412 chip, turbolink and a dynojet awd dyno.

i am a pretty busy dude, i don't have cable or satellite because i never sit down for more than 5 minutes unless i am sleeping. for this reason i am happy with my ultimate because it is turn-key. for the same reason i have not gotten into chip burning because it seems really time consuming and unnecessary. here's why:

on the dyno my trucks a/f mixture is flat all acrossed the board. on the 3rd pull my intake temps are a little warmer and i start to see 2-3 deg of knock retard. now i am no expert (seriously) but that tells me i am pretty close to my maximum potential.

reading some of the latest posts in chipping from other board members for a split second i can't help but feel belittled by some of the comments about custom chips being the only way to go. one guy says that if you have an "off the shelf chip" its not a question of if the engine will blow its when. WTF?

the "new code" which is supposed to tune the truck for you using a wb o2 seems like a really good idea but don't you still have to be pretty friggin' close to having a perfectly tuned chip because of the insane lag in wb corrections?

per the sellers instructions after buying my alky kit i called a VERY popular syty tuner/engine builder who told me (after i asked him to pretty please burn me a chip) that i could use the alky kit with the ultimate with no problems, a bunch of his customers are already doing that and making 700HP. then he proceeded to tell me how to do it.

i am open minded and not trying to piss anyone off i am just looking for answers or maybe some constructive criticism if i am way off.

 

[#2875]

Re: chip rant

thanks nolan. i noticed you had a big stuff avatar. my tuner is telling me to screw the chip and go to aftermarket engine management. would you recommend this route? if i need to physically take the truck to a chip burner then a custom chip is not an option. just too much time and effort when i have a dyno, wb and all that crap right here (not to mention a lake and wakeboarding boat!). i can use AEM and never look back. should i?

I think you talked to me and the trucks making 700hp with meth are custom tuned.

Like I told you on the phone. Get a wideband on the truck and see where you are at.

It you can set it up to have 12-1 airfuel ratio all thru the boost up to 25psi you are golden.

You can then select a high timing setting and start spraying meth on top of the tune so you get in the 10.5 air fuel ration range.

It really is simple. And no there is not off the shelf custom tune that can be just burnt and sent to you.

Nolan

 

[10secTy]

Re: chip rant

Yep a aftermarket system is the way to go for ease of tuning. The wide band feed back make a world of differance. It would probley be the best route for you.

Nolan

thanks nolan. i noticed you had a big stuff avatar. my tuner is telling me to screw the chip and go to aftermarket engine management. would you recommend this route? if i need to physically take the truck to a chip burner then a custom chip is not an option. just too much time and effort when i have a dyno, wb and all that crap right here (not to mention a lake and wakeboarding boat!). i can use AEM and never look back. should i?

 

[Syclone#2960]

Re: chip rant

I was running the same ultimate 412/vortec/50lbs. chip with alky and did not have any problems with KR. I'm pretty positive I could have run a high 10 sec pass with 24-25 psi. I also still have alot to learn about tunning but like yourself time is pretty short. Now I'm going to run Long's chip which runs a little more timing.

 

[MRKING]

Re: chip rant

With one of the emulators that are available for for our trucks , like the $175 ostrich or the $300 autoprom , why spend over 1k for a stand alone ? You dont have to burn chips with either of those units .

 

[#2875]

Re: chip rant

an aftermarket system wouldn't cost me that much because i do a lot of favors (custom parts) for my tuner... aka i gots the hookup.

HOWEVER i am not familiar with the emulators. with the ostrich would i be able to read and copy the values from the chip i have now and build on that?

With one of the emulators that are available for for our trucks , like the $175 ostrich or the $300 autoprom , why spend over 1k for a stand alone ? You dont have to burn chips with either of those units .

 

[MRKING]

Re: chip rant

when you are in tunerpro and using the emulator, make a change to any table and the ecu immediately sees it . No delay , even while driving .As far as reading your chip now , moates.net has an $90 flash and burn that will get your bin off your current chip and on to your laptop for editing . You could even use that if you didnt want to buy an emulator .