Bowtie Head Nightmare

[DynaGlide]

Well, I picked up a set of bowtie heads with the understanding that they "fit" syty's. I dropped some serious dime on these things just to get them, and when they arrived in the mail, they were dented and scratched, and needed to be resurfaced. Also, a valve was bent from swatting a piston or something. I took care of that stuff, because I knew it'd be worth it when I bolted those suckers on. Well, much to my surprise, when I went to port match the intake with the heads... THEY'RE DIFFERENT! They won't even come close to bolting on. So now I've spent a LOT of money on heads that are going to require a buttload of time to make them work. Luckily, I work at the best turbo company in existence, and have access to mills, welders, waterjet, etc.

I must admit that when it comes to this car stuff, I'm a bit ignorant, but I'm figuring things out as I go. A concern I have is about the degree of the heads I have. To be honest, I don't know what they are, but am assuming they're 23* like stock... anyone know? Can I even use my stock intake?

If so, I have to add some material to my lower intake. I have the basic idea, but am wondering if I need to use a special type of aluminum welding rod to build this area up. Does anyone know? I've found a couple of pictures that give a pretty good idea of what has to be done, but I want to hear from someone who has done this... Any of the established SYTY fabricators... feel free to chime in

I remember seeing a video about a year ago or more that kind of showed an episode of a car show on tv where a dude's intake and heads didn't match up. It showed (quickly) the process of adding material, milling, etc. Anyone know the vid I'm talking about, and know where it is?

Any input here is greatly appreciated. I'd just buy one already done, but I wouldn't learn anything then. Thanks.

Sam

 

[ed hess]

Re: Bowtie Head Nightmare

if the valve cover bolt hole widths are the same top and bottom then 23 deg

if the top is closer than the bottom then 18 degree.

is the space between the top of the valve cover rail and intake port is thinner than the oem heads.... then they are raised runner.

you could get in touch with keith mease, send him your intake and heads, he can mock it up on an old block and do what you need. 856-678-2638

you might also check you exhaust setup on the block with the heads onand see if they fit.... most likely they wont.

ed

 

[HotRodV6]

Re: Bowtie Head Nightmare

Sounds like the nightmare i got into when i bought a set of suppossed brand new 23 degree rasied runner brodix heads and found out they were 15 degree heads, and basiclly would have required a sheet metal intake, or what i had made was a big 1in thick spacer so the ports would line up with my stock intake. cost me 500 bucks for the spacer. But it did the job but i abandaned that project in favor of an LS2 for my Sonoma GT instead of the built V6.

Do you have some pics of your stock intake sitting on the heads?

 

[DynaGlide]

Re: Bowtie Head Nightmare

Okay, so the perimeter bolt holes are the same distance apart from each other, and the distance from the cover rail to the intake port is thinner.

So I have 23 degree heads, which will allow me to use my stock intake, as long as it's modified to accomodate the larger ports. Also, I'll need Felpro 1203 gaskets. And due to the raised runner, I require tall profile valve covers. Is that all these two factors mean?

Anyone know what type of filler rod should be used to build up the intake?

Ed, I ended up picking up the valve covers from Tom Ferrick; thanks for the referral.

Thanks for your responses.

 

[HotRodV6]

Re: Bowtie Head Nightmare

Well just becasue the valve cover perimater bolts are equally spaced doesnt mean they are automastically 23 degree heads, the 15 degree heads i bought were this way and were no where near close to fitting with the stock intake.

Do you have a casting number for the heads?

Also maybe a pic with a stock lower intake sitting on the heads to see how everything lines up?

 

[warmpancakes]

Re: Bowtie Head Nightmare

If you are using those heads why would you use the stock intake? It sucks the injectors are at the wrong angle dump it and get a better manifold.

 

[ed hess]

Re: Bowtie Head Nightmare

call tom back... i think he has an intake that will fit 23 deg raised runner heads.

ed

 

[DynaGlide]

Re: Bowtie Head Nightmare

I called and left a message for Tom. I do like the idea of a different, meant-for-it intake. As long as I can find one, and the price is right, that's probly what I'll do.

Mike: The heads come close to matching up with the intake, but the ports on the heads are elongated. I set the heads and intake up next to each other earlier and they almost matched up. As for the casting numbers, I forgot. I'll try to remember to do that tomorrow.

Thanks for your guys' help.

Sam

 

[ghettosled]

Re: Bowtie Head Nightmare

the intake mod should be no different then say a vortec cylinder head which is a raised runner.

Hopefully you have KB or custom headers, b/c if not, you'll need em (granted they are indeed 23deg).

There is no such thing as a bolt on aluminum head for the syclone or typhoon. What you are expiriencing is completely normal and something i get to deal with almost every day. I've unfortunately had to learn to deal with GM's inconsistancies.

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Bowtie Head Nightmare

I believe Daves P Brodix - 8's were a bolt on,w/stock manifolds.
(There is no such thing as a bolt on aluminum head for the syclone or typhoon) :tup:

 

[ghettosled]

Re: Bowtie Head Nightmare

the special order brodix straight plug heads angle the plug slightly down, so although it *may* physically bolt up, your spark plug boot will be wedged on the header.

Only way i could see making it a true bolt on is getting -8s as blanks and drill/tapping your own plug holes identical to stock.

 

[DynaGlide]

Re: Bowtie Head Nightmare

Mike, I'll be building my own headers to accomodate everything. If I end up having to use the stock intake, what type of filler rod do you recommend to build up the edge? Anything special?

 

[Robert Lone]

Re: Bowtie Head Nightmare

Aluminum.

(lots of sarcasim should be inserted here)

Robert

 

[decodave]

Re: Bowtie Head Nightmare

the special order brodix straight plug heads angle the plug slightly down, so although it *may* physically bolt up, your spark plug boot will be wedged on the header.

Only way i could see making it a true bolt on is getting -8s as blanks and drill/tapping your own plug holes identical to stock.

Mike you need to see alot of things. Like you want a pic of my Brodix heads with the stock mans. on them? With NO mods to them ? How about a pic. of the dyno sheet that shows 650' torqure @ 16 lbs? With your old turbo ?

 

[ghettosled]

Re: Bowtie Head Nightmare

yeh i would like to see some pics if you dont mind, b/c when i mocked a set up awhile back the plugs were aimed down to far.. I dont care how much power your motor makes, i was never claiming the heads didnt work awesome.

 

[Anthony]

Re: Bowtie Head Nightmare

Mike you need to see alot of things. Like you want a pic of my Brodix heads with the stock mans. on them? With NO mods to them ?

I'd like to see a pic of this as well. Even better, I'd like to see a pic of your plug boots after driving 50 miles with this setup. If you have been able to keep the boots from melting, I'd like to know the details of your setup, please.