Anyone know about this? 6L90

Foot Performance

Donating Member
Re: Anyone know about this? 6L90

i know it is pritty big but it hase the same bolt pattern as always so if you dare go ahead but i agree those extra OD would be awsome!
 

jbone

Member
Re: Anyone know about this? 6L90

would there be any problem with it being a rear wheel drive tranny? Sorry idk much about trannies
 

jjorgensen52

NHSTE - I'm the only one!
Re: Anyone know about this? 6L90

The HD trucks come in 4WD so it will be adaptable... I agree though that is going to be a monster of a tranny
 

warmpancakes

New member
Re: Anyone know about this? 6L90

havent seen one yet I have a buddy that woks at the plant ill see if I can get dimensions
 

George Blake

DONATING MEMBER
Re: Anyone know about this? 6L90

warmpancakes said:
Just get a 6l80e its a 4l80 with 2 more overdrives

They are nothing alike. It's kind of a bastard child of a 4l60/4l80. No bands. Uses clutch to clutch contact to stop drum rotation. I'm going to a seminar next month and it's gonna be discussed there. I'll find out more then.

Here's a file I had:


2007i Hydra-Matic 6L90 (MYD)

Hydra-Matic 6L90 six-speed Car and Truck automatic transmission

2007i Model Year Summary



New applications: Chevrolet Silverado 2500 HD, GMC Sierra 2500 HD

Increased Torque Capacity



FULL DESCRIPTIONS OF NEW OR CHANGED FEATURES



NEW APPLICATIONS: CHEVROLET SILVERADO 2500 HD, GMC SIERRA 2500 HD

The Hydra-Matic 6L90 six-speed automatic transmission is available in the new GMT 900 series heavy-duty pickups, the Chevrolet Silverado 2500 HD and the GMC Sierra 2500 HD. Both applications use the 6.0L V8 engine.



INCREASED TORQUE CAPACITY

The Hydra-Matic 6L90 allows higher-torque output engines to be used in applications that do not require a heavy-duty, commercial-style transmission.



Overview

The Hydra-Matic 6L90 is six-speed automatic transmission for rear- and four-wheel-drive trucks, designed with modular flexibility and compatibility with advanced electronic controls. It is a heavy-duty version of the 6L80 six-speed automatic, with a strengthened input gearset which has two additional pinion gears for six total, and a strengthened output gearset, that uses wider gears than the 6L80. The 6L90 shares about 75 percent of the parts as the 6L80, although the case of the 6L90 is 35mm longer than the 6L80 case.



The 6L90 has the capability for adaptive shift controls and other features such as grade braking, and Driver Shift Control with tap up/tap down shifting. A wide overall ratio spread of 6.04:1 allows a “steep” first gear, as well as very “tall” overdrive top gear for low-rpm highway cruising. With this wide ratio spread, acceleration is maximized, as is fuel economy. Engine noise is also lower during cruising. Both fifth and sixth gears are “overdrive” gears, for example.



As in the 6L80, gear changes from second to sixth gears are accomplished with clutch-to-clutch control, where an oncoming clutch is engaged and an “offgoing” clutch is released in a precise manner to achieve the ratio change. The first-to-second upshift, however, is a freewheeling action, where the second gear clutch engages while the first gear one-way clutch spins freely. This allows a greater degree of smoothness at lower vehicle speeds. The clutch-to-clutch shifting and single freewheeler allows significant reductions in packaging requirements.



Advances in transmission control modules allow the modules to exist reliably inside the transmission, where temperatures remain fairly constant compared to a body-mounted module. The transmission and module are assembled together, so no additional steps are necessary during vehicle assembly.



The 32-bit transmission control module (TCM) monitors transmission performance and compensates for normal wear in components such as clutch plates, so transmission performance remains consistent for the life of the transmission. The control module also “tests” the components of the transmission following assembly to optimize the interaction of the components. The module is compatible with future global applications.



DEXRON® VI premium fluid validated to improve durability and shift stability

A new transmission fluid, DEXRON® VI, was developed to have a more consistent viscosity profile; a more consistent shift performance in extreme conditions; and less degradation over time. Internal GM tests have demonstrated DEXRON® VI delivers more than twice the durability and stability in friction tests compared to existing fluids. The DEXRON® VI fluid was designed specifically and validated for the new family of GM six-speed automatic transmissions.



The 6L90 variant of the new Hydra-Matic six-speed automatics centers on the desire for common components and manufacturing tooling. The 6L90 six-speed contains three gearsets, a conventional input planetary gearset with four pinion gears, as well as one compound output gearset and one simple output gearset. The compound output gearset uses three sets of pinion gear pairs, with one set of pinions meshing with the sun gear and the other set with the ring gear. This arrangement allows for optimal ratio steps with a 6.04 overall ratio spread.



The torque converter is 300mm in diameter, and is available initially with a single-plate lockup clutch, which makes use of GM’s proprietary electronic controlled capacity clutch (ECCC) technology, which uses a small, regulated amount of slip to dampen out engine pulses. This creates a smoother running drivetrain, especially during shift events.



Low maintenance

For severe use, DEXRON® VI fluid changes are the only maintenance recommended. For normal use there is no fluid change scheduled.



The Hydra-Matic 6L90 is produced in Ypsilanti, Michigan.
 

'JustDreamin'

Dream: 6LV8 Turbo Bravada
Re: Anyone know about this? 6L90

Both the 6L80E and 6L90E sound like good choices, but as of yet, I haven't heard of anybody (besides GM) who makes a trans controller to run it (which really isn't correct since I believe the trans uses its own controller and just needs inputs).

I'm not sure if jumping up to the 6L80 or 6L90 would truely be a step up or not.

Durability isn't proven as of yet. GM & the aftermarket have years of experience with the 4L80E and its been upgraded alot. And its based on one of the toughest transmissions GM built in the 60's (the TH400).

Extra gears would be useful, but I think the gear spreads are pretty wide. Meaning it may have more ratio in the trans than anybody could use. First Gear is 4.03:1. 6th is 0.67:1 (ratios are the same for both the 6L80E and 90E). 1st Gear on the 700R4 is like 3.06:1, and the 4L80E is a 2.48:1 first gear. Big differences there.

Ratings wise, the 6L90E and the 4L80E are pretty close. The 4L80E is rated for max engine torque of 440 or 460 ft lbs (80E vs 85E). The 6L90E is rated for 450hp / 530 ft lbs of torque. The 6L80E is rated for less (469hp but only 439 ft-lbs of torque). The biggest question is how do the ratings compare? We know that the 4L80E will stand up to some significant abuse, and that the GM ratings have some safety factor in them, and that aftermarket parts can up the ability of the 4L80E. Can the same be said of the 6 speeds? I doubt there are much aftermarket parts as of this point, so you'd be mostly on your own for a while.

The good news is that GM has been installing this in the C6 vette for a year, and is now going to be putting it in their mainstream trucks (which is big money for them) so I expect that this trans is going to have decent aftermarket support sooner or later. But it won't be next week.....

'JustDreamin'
 

George Blake

DONATING MEMBER
Re: Anyone know about this? 6L90

If you read that file that GM released, it's not considered a "heavy duty" trans like the 4L80e was. This is the trans that you use when you don't need a heavy duty trans. This trans provides comfort and without the snappy steep gear changes, it makes it easier on it for towing. See what they mean? It uses an aluminum drum that spins for OD. I don't like that. The GM version uses two sprags where the Ford version uses one. I don't don't fully understand that yet. The 4L80e actually has two roller clutches and a sprag and they hold up really well. Maybe the thought of having a reliable compact sprag/roller clutch assembly outweighed the space requirements of additional clutch packs. There is NO external controller. The trick is translating all the various vehicle inputs into something the internal controller understands. That's not gonna be happening for a while.
 

'JustDreamin'

Dream: 6LV8 Turbo Bravada
Re: Anyone know about this? 6L90

I read the GM literature, but I also looked at the spec sheets for the 6L80E & 6L90E on the GMPowertrain website http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/r_cars/index.html

The 4L80E is rated for a max GVWR of 18,000lbs & GCWR of 22,000lbs
The 6L90E is rated for a max GVWR of 15,000lbs & GCWR of 21,000lbs.
(GVWR is max vehicle weight, GCWR is max vehicle and trailer weight (combined).

Basically GM only considers the Allison family of autos to be heavy duty at this point. The Allison is the only trans that backs up the big block and diesel (except in diesel vans where the 4L85E gets the nod, the allison probably doesn't fit). Allisons have GVWR's that go as high as 26,000lbs and GCWR's of 22,000lbs and up (6 speed allisons have lower ratings than the 5 speed versions).


But as previously mentioned (by both of us) the controls will be the problem. So, unless you're willing to slap a complete engine / transmission package out of a '07 truck into your Sy or Ty, you won't be using the 6L80E or 6L90E anytime soon. I'd bet there are some guys out there who would love to put the new 403hp 6.2L L92 with the 6L90E in there truck (since I would love to) but the cost will keep most of them from doing so.

'JustDreamin'
 

George Blake

DONATING MEMBER
Re: Anyone know about this? 6L90

Those GVW say it all. The 6 speeds are on a different page from the 4 speeds. For example a 4l80 and 6l80 have no where near the same ratings and the 4l80 is actually rated much higher. GM also put the 4l60e in the corvettes. That didn't make much sense but didn't stop them from doing it. Like I said, I'll let you know more after the seminar. If you look at the "4L70" it would make you believe that it's on the same tier as the 4L80 when, I've seen the inside of both and there is NO comparison.
Allisons are monsters. 5 speed with a "cheater" 6 speed. Used in full size ambulances, firetrucks, etc. Converters are amazing looking. Some big as a trash can lid. That is definitely an HD beast.
 

gjp

another post whore
Re: Anyone know about this? 6L90

The 4L80E is rated for a max GVWR of 18,000lbs & GCWR of 22,000lbs
GVWR of a syclone is 4350lbs... Does this mean I can tow now :D
 

'JustDreamin'

Dream: 6LV8 Turbo Bravada
Re: Anyone know about this? 6L90

gjp said:
GVWR of a syclone is 4350lbs... Does this mean I can tow now :D
Sure....You shouldn't hurt the trans if you've got the 80E....Might melt that little spinny snail thingy, but the trans won't care....

Seriously, the trans used to be the weak link. Having fixed that with something much heavier duty, you would have to be concerned now with making enough power without boost (so your EGT's don't go through the roof and melt stuff).

'JustDreamin'
 
Re: Anyone know about this? 6L90

Did anybody read in there about being able to use a paddle shifter with the 6L90, wonder if the twist machine aftermarket paddle setup would be adaptable to this trans.

Also, these new trans may have the controller inside the trans, but they also use the new CAN system, which is basically USB type high speed communication among all on board computers, so that will make it harder to adapt to an older setup. I hear TCI is working on a controller for the new 6L80E tran and that controller shoudl run the 6L90 also. Im hoping that controller comes out before i get my GT done, as id love to use this 6 speed tranny.
 

'JustDreamin'

Dream: 6LV8 Turbo Bravada
Re: Anyone know about this? 6L90

HotRodV6 said:
Did anybody read in there about being able to use a paddle shifter with the 6L90, wonder if the twist machine aftermarket paddle setup would be adaptable to this trans.

Also, these new trans may have the controller inside the trans, but they also use the new CAN system, which is basically USB type high speed communication among all on board computers, so that will make it harder to adapt to an older setup. I hear TCI is working on a controller for the new 6L80E tran and that controller shoudl run the 6L90 also. Im hoping that controller comes out before i get my GT done, as id love to use this 6 speed tranny.
The easy way around the controller problem (for your application) is to run the LS2 / L92 computer, since it already can control the trans. Would probably be the easiest and least expensive solution (but not quite as flexible as some of the aftermarket products like FAST). Just have to figure out how to integrate it with the rest of the computing equipment under the hood.

'JustDreamin'
 

jjorgensen52

NHSTE - I'm the only one!
Re: Anyone know about this? 6L90

JustDreamin said:
The other way around the controller problem is to figure out how to run your Turbo V6 on the LS2 computer, since it already can control the trans. Crank and cam sensors would be tough to retrofit, I think.

'JustDreamin'
The newest 4.3's ('07 trucks) are equipped with both cam and crank sensors in the same calibration as the new LSX motors (as they now run DIS from the factory). The only difference I know of in terms of parts swapping is the later front covers have fewer bolts holding them... could be fixed. I think the newest ones also have aluminum timing covers. the biggest problem would be adding the reluctor wheel to the crank... because in theory the crank needs to be .100" longer, IIRC, but I think you can just cut the balancer down to compensate. Along those lines, the new PCM to go with them (E37) is capable of trans control, currently for the 4 speed but it will be updated I'm sure when the 6 speed comes out in the trucks
 
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'JustDreamin'

Dream: 6LV8 Turbo Bravada
Re: Anyone know about this? 6L90

jjorgensen52 said:
The newest 4.3's ('07 trucks) are equipped with both cam and crank sensors in the same calibration as the new LSX motors (as they now run DIS from the factory). The only difference I know of in terms of parts swapping is the later front covers have fewer bolts holding them... could be fixed. I think the newest ones also have aluminum timing covers. the biggest problem would be adding the reluctor wheel to the crank... because in theory the crank needs to be .100" longer, IIRC, but I think you can just cut the balancer down to compensate. Along those lines, the new PCM to go with them (E37) is capable of trans control, currently for the 4 speed but it will be updated I'm sure when the 6 speed comes out in the trucks
Yeah, and just after I posted it, I remembered that he is swapping to a 418 ci L92 V8, which means my previous statement was completely off in left field for him (so I edited my post).

However, you are correct, GM has most all of the parts to be able to swap computers. But the cost of that gets to be a little high. I wouldn't have thought of that.

'JustDreamin'
 
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