700 Raptor

[swoop]

Well after 3 months of trying to get a hold of George to purchase his 700 kit with no answer or reply, I have given up that it will ever happen. This has seriously put a damper on my build as my truck could already have been finished and running at atco for the spring test and tune dates to work out any other bugs my truck might have. I would still buy from him if I somehow was able to get a hold of him but I'm starting to lean in another direction. Also, I don't want anyone to think I'm flaming George or his quality of work as thats not the kind of person I am. I still have upmost respect for him and the things he has done for people on this forum.

Regardless, I have seen a few people on hear talking about the PATC Raptor 700r4s and saying they really like them. I would be purchasing their stage 3 build for my truck and would like anyone with any sort of experience with these transmissions to chime in. Good, bad, differences between Prime Gears and PATC, anything at all. Thanks a bunch.

 

[nallj92]

Re: 700 Raptor

that sounds kind of weird that you cannot get a hold of him being that he posts here all the time, and recently at that,
raptor has some great upgrade parts, but i have no experience with them,

good luck on whatever you figure out,

 

[George Blake]

Re: 700 Raptor

I've just been really busy trying to take care of existing customers. I'm still 4 builds behind and rather than take on more, I want to finish these up. There are two other projects I'm doing that have dragged on since last year and the light is FINALLY showing at the end of the tunnel on these. I'm not ignoring you, I just can't take the work right now.

I wish I could tell you what's in other builds. Unfortunately, I built a 4L80e for a father/son project and the 700 that they had (failed quickly) that was supposedly top of the line(this was another well known company, not PATC), was a standard rebuild with a transgo jr kit and a billet 4th servo. It had NONE of the parts that they claimed was in there except for the billet servo, but you could see that servo. Know what I mean? If you just want a kit, I can sell you the kit and you can put it in yourself. Very DIY friendly. If you have to have it built, though, your gonna have to wait or go to another builder.

 

[BigBadSmoosh]

Re: 700 Raptor

if you are going to go with any random 700r4 trans builder why not go with level 10 in northern NJ, at least with them they are semi local.

Personally, I'd go with George, but i'm sure he is extremely busy and this could be the reason you have not heard from him.

 

[jjorgensen52]

Re: 700 Raptor

I had my tranny built using what is essentially a level 4 package, including the super duty output shaft. I have been very happy with the performance thus far. Did use the SyTy valve body though. Also, my brother knew a guy who was running the level 4 package in a mid 10 second fullsize chevy truck.... it was a supercharged 99 with an AWD case in it :tup:

 

[swoop]

Re: 700 Raptor

Sorry for length, but this is the level 3 packages and what it comes with.

This transmission comes with a high performance Superior intermediate billet servo that has 35% more holding power than a Corvette servo. It will give a firmer 1-2 and 2-3 shift. It also has a high performance Superior overdrive billet servo with 50% more holding power than the stock overdrive servo. This servo gives a firmer 3-4 shift. This 700R4 has 8 Red Eagle clutches and full thickness Kolene steels in the 3-4 clutch drum. Our 700R4 comes with the Mega Valve and an oversize low / reverse boost valve, these two valve produce higher pressure and firmer shifts. All of our high performance 700R4 transmissions come with a 13 vane high performance / high volume pump. We use an Alto Carbonite PowerBand with thicker hardened anchors that holds in second and overdrive. Also included in the price is a heavy-duty balanced stall converter with furnace brazed fins, a Sonnax carbon fiber clutch and needle bearing for added strength. This torque converter can be ordered with stall speeds of 1800, 2000, 2300, 2600 or 2800 RPM (#2). Some of the other features are a 30 spline input shaft, "The Beast" reaction shell, special Transgo separator plate if needed, elevated pressure regulator spring, extra wide sun gear bushing, extra wide rear stator support bushing, performance 1-2 accumulator spring, high output pump slide spring, special intermediate servo release check valve, Corvette governor if needed and a 29 element heavy-duty Borg Warner forward input sprag. Also included in this package deal is a throttle valve cable, dipstick and tube, and an automatic converter lock-up switch. Compare all of these features with any other 700R4 on the market. Why pay this much or more without getting all of the good parts? Over-all this is the best 700R4 on the market at the best price. I have one in my one ton Suburban with 463 cubic inches and 455 foot pounds of torque. I pull a 5,500 pound trailer in overdrive all the time. The transmission has been in use for 7 years now with no problems. The 700R4 has a 3.06 ratio in first gear, which is 20% lower than most transmissions. The 30% overdrive will give a 30 to 40% increase in gas mileage on the road over a 3 speed transmission. This transmission is for any type high performance / heavy duty use up to 600 horse power / 450 torque (600 with Torque Drive package) using pump gasoline. See ratings chart below. Add torque converter and Torque Drive upgrades if needed.

 

[jbone]

Re: 700 Raptor

I had my tranny built using what is essentially a level 4 package, including the super duty output shaft. I have been very happy with the performance thus far. Did use the SyTy valve body though. Also, my brother knew a guy who was running the level 4 package in a mid 10 second fullsize chevy truck.... it was a supercharged 99 with an AWD case in it :tup:

i thought you had a stock stall???

 

[SY1616]

Re: 700 Raptor

660 here.....oh, sorry, you're not talking 4 wheelers...haha :rotf:

 

[George Blake]

Re: 700 Raptor

I had my tranny built using what is essentially a level 4 package, including the super duty output shaft. I have been very happy with the performance thus far. Did use the SyTy valve body though. Also, my brother knew a guy who was running the level 4 package in a mid 10 second fullsize chevy truck.... it was a supercharged 99 with an AWD case in it

It'll hold up fine for a little while. If he drives it like grandpa and and only makes a few passes on it. That's how 700s hold up. In a 10sec vehicle you will be able to count the passes on one hand before it needs rebuilt or it blows up. Bull$hit walks. I've built a LOT of them and I know what it takes. A 700 can be built to take a lot. Problem is, by the time you sink the money into it to do it, you've far surpassed the cost of a 4L80e that will hold well over 800HP. Not get a few passes 800 HP. I mean 800HP beat the piss out of it on the street 800HP. Knowing someones brother's uncle's sister's illigitimate cousin does not qualify as a 700 holding up to 6000 pound vehicle with AWD. The closest to that was Parish and guess what? His 4L60e blew up. He then broke a 4L80e input shaft. It took a 4L80e 300M input shaft to hold up to the abuse of a full size truck putting down 10s. Guess what? 600 HP will not put a full size truck into the 10s.
Back to your regularly scheduled program.:tdown:

 

[swoop]

Re: 700 Raptor

haha, way to totally shoot him down George.

If you dont mind me asking and sorry if this is somewhat of a rude question, but what is the differences between your 700 build and PATCs? I feel like you can give me an honest answer because you have been in the game for a while.

 

[jjorgensen52]

Re: 700 Raptor

i thought you had a stock stall???

Hence why I said "essentially" .That's probably why I haven't broken anything yet :lol: ... I need to get to fixing that one of these days.

George - I can only say what I know, so I apologize if that was a misguided comment. They beat that truck at the strip pretty frequently, and after the first blowup the raptor they put in it is still holding to my knowledge.

 

[George Blake]

Re: 700 Raptor

I'm not saying the raptor is junk by no means. The problem is the statements that you made don't make sense. The HP required to take a 5500 to 6000 pound vehicle 10 sec in the quarter is 930-1000 HP and just as much torque. So no, there is no 700 that is holding up to a fullsize AWD doing 10 sec passes on a regular basis while being thrashed on the street. Look up some stuff on Parish. The fullsize blue chevy doing 10 sec quarters if you want to know the truth.Now, if he has a 4L80e that they've put in there to mate up with the AWD case, that is another story and that is probably what is in there.

The raptor vs mine. I won't use 5 pinion planetaries. Much weaker material. 4 pinion only with cryo and oil slinger. 4L70e reaction shaft with cryo. I'm sure PATC will cryo stuff, just pull out the pocketbook. Output shaft. I will cryo a stock shaft. If you want a $500 billet output shaft, I'll get you one of those, your just pushing the price way up past that of the 4L80e. If you look at the raptor, the billet shaft isn't even mentioned. I have a sprag I do. Been doing it a couple years(welding,plate,cryo). Not even mentioned in the raptor. Input drum I use is similar. Sleeve, over clutch piston bigger, better design late model drum that is cryo'd. Beast shell, can't do no better. Good shell. Cryo the sun gear and put a wide bushing in it. Pump mods are not listed in the raptor. WOT 3-4 upshift? Lots of parts are required to make it do that. The monster boost valve is just a .500 TV boost valve. $10. I only use a 093 servo for 2nd and Fairbank OD servo. No big secrets. I guess the big difference is I build them like they are going in mine. Custom, takes a lot of time. Ask my wife. She hates it. It takes 3-4 days for me to do one. The cleaning, measuring, etc. I'm just really picky when I build one. I've NEVER built one in an afternoon. I've "fixed" them in an afternoon but not stem to stern rebuild.

 

['JustDreamin']

Re: 700 Raptor

Not to argue, but I think Parish's truck is closer to 4800 to 5000 lbs. But that amount of weight still takes a trainload of power to just break into the 10's. Solid 10's does take 900 to 1000hp with that amount of weight, which is what the dyno sheets I've seen on Parish's truck indicate he's making (or at least the last ones I saw). Last one I saw indicated 1000hp and 1000ft-lbs at the REAR WHEELS (running through an 80E and a 4wd tcase). WOW, is all I can say.

His truck is what convinced me that I needed to swap a 6.0L LQ4 into a Bravada. I need a 4 door sport utility (car seats are a pain with fewer doors, its fun putting the carseat into the back of my '93 Z28). That leaves either the Tahoe (at an easy 5000lbs) or the S10 Blazer (which weighs 4000lbs but doesn't come with a V8). I picked the S10. I need to work out the rest of the details in mine (like a front driveshaft and AC compressor mount), and then get cooking on MORE POWER.

And with that vision, and the desire to tow a boat regularly, and you guy's input, I picked the 4L80E. Right now its a stock build, but its also behind a stock 6.0L. When the motor starts making more power, the trans will be made ready.

Back to your regularly scheduled transmission thread.

'JustDreamin'

 

[George Blake]

Re: 700 Raptor

5800 pounds. That's what it weighed when he broke the input shaft. Heavy tuck. I'm sure he's done some weight savings now to get some more out of it.

 

[jjorgensen52]

Re: 700 Raptor

5800 pounds. That's what it weighed when he broke the input shaft. Heavy tuck. I'm sure he's done some weight savings now to get some more out of it.

That is heavy. I'm pretty sure the truck I mentioned only weighed in at about 4500 lbs. Heck, my old truck only weighed 4174 w/out driver.

 

[swoop]

Re: 700 Raptor

I'm not saying the raptor is junk by no means. The problem is the statements that you made don't make sense. The HP required to take a 5500 to 6000 pound vehicle 10 sec in the quarter is 930-1000 HP and just as much torque. So no, there is no 700 that is holding up to a fullsize AWD doing 10 sec passes on a regular basis while being thrashed on the street. Look up some stuff on Parish. The fullsize blue chevy doing 10 sec quarters if you want to know the truth.Now, if he has a 4L80e that they've put in there to mate up with the AWD case, that is another story and that is probably what is in there.

The raptor vs mine. I won't use 5 pinion planetaries. Much weaker material. 4 pinion only with cryo and oil slinger. 4L70e reaction shaft with cryo. I'm sure PATC will cryo stuff, just pull out the pocketbook. Output shaft. I will cryo a stock shaft. If you want a $500 billet output shaft, I'll get you one of those, your just pushing the price way up past that of the 4L80e. If you look at the raptor, the billet shaft isn't even mentioned. I have a sprag I do. Been doing it a couple years(welding,plate,cryo). Not even mentioned in the raptor. Input drum I use is similar. Sleeve, over clutch piston bigger, better design late model drum that is cryo'd. Beast shell, can't do no better. Good shell. Cryo the sun gear and put a wide bushing in it. Pump mods are not listed in the raptor. WOT 3-4 upshift? Lots of parts are required to make it do that. The monster boost valve is just a .500 TV boost valve. $10. I only use a 093 servo for 2nd and Fairbank OD servo. No big secrets. I guess the big difference is I build them like they are going in mine. Custom, takes a lot of time. Ask my wife. She hates it. It takes 3-4 days for me to do one. The cleaning, measuring, etc. I'm just really picky when I build one. I've NEVER built one in an afternoon. I've "fixed" them in an afternoon but not stem to stern rebuild.

So I guess the ultimate question is, are they lieing about their capabilities to hold up to 600hp/600tq with their "torque drive" package? Heres what it is on their site...

"Extreme Duty Torque Drive Package. You get a hardened input shaft and drum assembly plus a hardened reaction shell and bearing. Every time you think there's nothing else that can be done to a 700R4, here it comes. These parts are made to with-stand way over 600 foot pounds of torque. Fits late 1987 up"

Without pre-based judgements would you say your trans is stronger than the raptor, or equal in strength? Also, why is it that yours is almost identical in price with cryo treament, while theirs isnt yet is advertised for more hp? Sorry if I'm killing you with questions but this is probably most important aspect of my build right now and I want to make sure that I get it from the right guy and that my trans will hold up to a summer at Atco raceway.

 

[BigBadSmoosh]

Re: 700 Raptor

So I guess the ultimate question is, are they lieing about their capabilities to hold up to 600hp/600tq with their "torque drive" package? Heres what it is on their site...

"Extreme Duty Torque Drive Package. You get a hardened input shaft and drum assembly plus a hardened reaction shell and bearing. Every time you think there's nothing else that can be done to a 700R4, here it comes. These parts are made to with-stand way over 600 foot pounds of torque. Fits late 1987 up"

Without pre-based judgements would you say your trans is stronger than the raptor, or equal in strength? Also, why is it that yours is almost identical in price with cryo treament, while theirs isnt yet is advertised for more hp? Sorry if I'm killing you with questions but this is probably most important aspect of my build right now and I want to make sure that I get it from the right guy and that my trans will hold up to a summer at Atco raceway.

4L80e

 

[swoop]

Re: 700 Raptor

I'm 20 years old with a 5000 loan to get my truck up and running to make a decent street/strip truck. I would LOVE to do the 4L80e, but its just not in my budget right now.

 

[BigBadSmoosh]

Re: 700 Raptor

I'm 20 years old with a 5000 loan to get my truck up and running to make a decent street/strip truck. I would LOVE to do the 4L80e, but its just not in my budget right now.

then look for a used tranny and pray that it works..

at 20 yrs old i couldn't afford a single thing on my ty.. hell I still can't

 

[George Blake]

Re: 700 Raptor

There are a BUNCH of disclaimers. Deduct for 4wd, deduct for forced induction, nitrous, big tires, etc, etc. Gotta read all of it. Your truck will put down over 500 foot pounds of torque with a decent tune. Are they lieing? Not exactly. They don't tell you how much to deduct either. Just rest assured. You will break your 700 at some point. Keep the shifts stock or you'll break it sooner. No billet 2nd servo. You can do a billet 4th servo.
Remember. I know what's inside them. No big secrets. There's no special sprinkle magic. The biggest problem is with the shift characteristics of HOW it shifts. Grabbing parts spinning at high rpm and making them stop to perform a shift is a break waiting to happen. Read the thread Jimmy started called "bulletproof 700r4". I explain it there.

Without pre-based judgements would you say your trans is stronger than the raptor, or equal in strength?

I have no doubt mine will hold up to more than what theirs will. I'm not saying it will take 600HP in a AWD, turbo charged vehicle being raced. If you look really close, they aren't saying theirs will either.

Also, why is it that yours is almost identical in price with cryo treament, while theirs isnt yet is advertised for more hp?

Because they are making more money than me. Duh

Sorry if I'm killing you with questions but this is probably most important aspect of my build right now and I want to make sure that I get it from the right guy and that my trans will hold up to a summer at Atco raceway.

The 700 is NOT a drag race trans. It is a light weight smog trans developed in the early 80s with very little done to improve it. It's faults lay in it's shift characteristic. If you want a drag trans, do a 350,400, or 80e. Probably should've done some mroe research before you chose to do a 700 the mechanism to get power to the ground in a race vehicle. You will be VERY lucky if it makes it through the summer.If it's shifting OK, just keep driving it until you can afford to do the trans right. I try to tell guys, do the trans and then later, you can do whatever you want to the engine and you'll get to have fun instead of towing it.