2WD S10 setup for road racing

[brock1949]

Re: 2WD S10 setup for road racing

ok cool, I'm still not decided on if i'm ready to spend SC&C kinda money so this is fairly likely option. I going to get it running and on the road to make sure the driveline doesn't need anymore money instantly but first track events may so by then i gotta have my ducks in a row and the frontend setup.

Any thoughts on the best way to set ride height? or thoughts on my $50 DJM tubular 3" drop control arms? Its going to cost me 40ish to get new bushings and then probably 25-50 because i'll take them and get sand blasted and powder coated again so before i drop another 80-100 in them i want to make sure its a valid option.

 

[1988Jimmy]

Re: 2WD S10 setup for road racing

ok cool, I'm still not decided on if i'm ready to spend SC&C kinda money so this is fairly likely option. I going to get it running and on the road to make sure the driveline doesn't need anymore money instantly but first track events may so by then i gotta have my ducks in a row and the frontend setup.

Any thoughts on the best way to set ride height? or thoughts on my $50 DJM tubular 3" drop control arms? Its going to cost me 40ish to get new bushings and then probably 25-50 because i'll take them and get sand blasted and powder coated again so before i drop another 80-100 in them i want to make sure its a valid option.

Brock, if you decide against using the DJM tubulars, I would like first dibs on them please if you decide to sell them.

 

[rentedmule]

Re: 2WD S10 setup for road racing

I don't know about the LCAs but I asked on pts10 since I've been interested in that question for a while as well. From what I understand, a major factor in setting up the front end is to make sure that the LCA is parallel with the ground at ride height so that you get the best spindle geometry possible during cornering. I'm not sure how the drop LCA would affect that - it may effectively be like a spring drop, which isn't great if you take it too far.

There are some engineers on pts10 that will probably know the answer.

 

[brock1949]

Re: 2WD S10 setup for road racing

1988Jimmy I'll keep you posted These things honestly look like a quality piece i'd really like to run them but we'll see. Just comining those with my 2" spindles i would be at 5" of drop which is starting to sound like allot, and to be honest right now i've got 1' drop springs so its really 6" drop if i don't switch back to full height springs.

rentedmule I guess its time i start posting on pts10 and stop just lurking looking for answers. They have some amazing projects on that site should give me some ideas for the rear.

 

[1988Jimmy]

Re: 2WD S10 setup for road racing

1988Jimmy I'll keep you posted These things honestly look like a quality piece i'd really like to run them but we'll see. Just comining those with my 2" spindles i would be at 5" of drop which is starting to sound like allot, and to be honest right now i've got 1' drop springs so its really 6" drop if i don't switch back to full height springs.

rentedmule I guess its time i start posting on pts10 and stop just lurking looking for answers. They have some amazing projects on that site should give me some ideas for the rear.

Thanks.

Just to let you know, you're not supposed to run a drop spring with those lower control arms. Only a factory ride height spring. I'm not even sure a ZQ8 spring could be used.
I'm running spindles on my truck as well with 16x8" wheels on a 4.25" backspace with 225/60R16 tires. I'm sure I'd probably end up in the same boat as you with those arms.

As for the rear setup, over on PTS10, alot of those guys say that the ZQ8 leafs are better than the belltechs, something about the belltechs being mushy because of the spring rate. You also may want to think about adjustable rear shocks vs. that agressive "drop shock" rate those Nitro shocks give.

 

[brock1949]

Re: 2WD S10 setup for road racing

I kinda wondered what the story was with the DJM's and the spring height, My buddy who found these for me builds "mini truck".. frames etc stock floor body drops air ride etc etc. He was swearing up and down the best setup you could have was a stock spring with these drop lower arms and spindles and run with 5" drop. But thats only for what its worth he isn't an engineer but he gets away with murder when it comes to making looks more important than function.. like reverse 4 links having no idea bar lenghts just adjusting it till it lines up to brackets he's welded in.

rentedmule you said you were running a stock height towing spring? wonder if this combined with 2" spindles and drop lower control arms would be a decent setup using UB uppers and tall ball joints.

 

[1988Jimmy]

Re: 2WD S10 setup for road racing

I think by running a towing spring you're going to add firmness to the truck, I would be careful though because you could drastically over-stiffen the frontend and make it ride bouncy. I would also look into coilovers later and possibly call DJM and QA1/AFCO to see if the arm will work with them.

 

[rentedmule]

Re: 2WD S10 setup for road racing

I originally had the Z85 towing option but I swapped to ZQ8 coils. That was a few years ago but if I still had them now I'd go with the setup you mentioned - the Z85 coils and 2" drop spindles. Unfortunately I left them outside and believe it or not someone stole them! They are noticeably stiffer but it isn't such a huge difference that it would ruin your ride quality.

Chev's engineering team built an insane auto-X S10 at some point and they used cut Z85 coils to get the front stiffness they wanted. I'll try to dig up the article, I don't have it here at work. IIRC they also used a custom 40mm front swaybar so they had a crazy stiff front end.

 

[1988Jimmy]

Re: 2WD S10 setup for road racing

What are the Z85 springs worth? I have the ability to get ZQ8 or Z85 springs, just wondering which would be better for my daily application.

 

[rentedmule]

Re: 2WD S10 setup for road racing

I have no idea, you should ask the guy that stole mine! LOL! I think I paid $40 for my ZQ8 springs though.

 

[1988Jimmy]

Re: 2WD S10 setup for road racing

I have no idea, you should ask the guy that stole mine! LOL! I think I paid $40 for my ZQ8 springs though.

I've heard alot of people say that I shouldn't buy ZQ8 springs because of the age/mileage of them. Is this true or not? I can buy the ZQ8's new but they are pretty pricey. I'm wanting to go ZQ8 leafs/coils but i'm sort of worried about age. I can pick up an entire set (leafs/coils) for 100 plus taxes but would mileage (say around 180K) and age (say 1998) be a big issue?


Sorry to post in your thread brock, just trying to learn as much as I can.

 

[rentedmule]

Re: 2WD S10 setup for road racing

I have no idea to be honest. The ZQ8 coils only dropped my truck by an inch when I put them in and I don't think it's gone down more in the last few years. I do have friends with stock, higher mileage ZQ8's that are significantly lower in the front than mine though so they may sag over time.

I'm running a 4-leaf + overload towing spring pack plus 3" blocks and a ZQ8 swaybar in the rear. It's uncomfortably stiff but I get zero wheel-hop (even with 295's) and its easy to rotate the rear around with throttle on tight courses. I over-cooked a turn on an air-strip course once at about 70 mph and it was pretty neutral and easy to control in the slide. It's pretty brutal on the street but it works.

This is the link to the GM build I was talking about:
http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/67779_2001_chevrolet_s10/index.html

 

[1988Jimmy]

Re: 2WD S10 setup for road racing

I'll definately be going with the ZQ8 springs for the lowered height. As for the article, that's just nasty. I love the Hombre/Blazer look with the Vette wheels. Not to mention the LS1...

 

[brock1949]

Re: 2WD S10 setup for road racing

Hey don't worry about posting in this thread i think were all on the same page.

I was considering coil over originally when i got the control arms figured i would add on adding whatever i needed to them to make the heights right etc even though my buddy wanted me to run the stock springs with those LCA's and spindles.

Then after talking to Mark at SC&C who was basically telling me it doesn't make a big difference between coil over and coils said most of the time coil overs on a car not setup for coil overs doesn't improve anything and no noticeable told me the only real advantage is ride height adjustment but told me its going to need full alignment every time its touched. Kept telling me spring rate is spring rate leafs, coils, coil overs etc.

I have a junk yard local that on my last trip had i think 14 S10's so if Z85 is the glove box code i can start looking and pull those springs pretty quick if its a common spring maybe i'll go find a set and if they have a couple sets i'd be willing to pull them if either of you were still looking for a set (and it doesn't prove to be a ton of work lol) looks like they go for about 12 dollars each.

Side note not sure if you guys know about them but we have been using nothing but ford electric fans.. they have some of the most amazing electric fans.. The ford taurus SHO (90 93) area one had the fan with a shroud that fits a S10 radiator almost perfect and then there is the Crown vic fans that area a circle but those are everywhere 94+ has them from what i can tell so far and the nice part is they are a secondary fan on the crown vics so i've yet to find one that was junk. I've been told they move 3600+ CFM but they are a man killer on electrical 50-100amps at startup. Most guys wire them with 200 amp relays and crap. We've used them on jeeps, S10's trucks, all kinda stuff they go for 16 bucks at the same junk yard.

 

[1988Jimmy]

Re: 2WD S10 setup for road racing

If it weren't for the price of shipping being so high, I would take you up on that offer for the coil springs.


Have you thought about taking the "cup" out of the control arms and using them as tubulars?

 

[brock1949]

Re: 2WD S10 setup for road racing

If it weren't for the price of shipping being so high, I would take you up on that offer for the coil springs.

Have you thought about taking the "cup" out of the control arms and using them as tubulars?

Ya thats what i was thinking about, we do allot of metal fab work, boxing and building frames, trailers, suspension parts but so far no control arms however i don't think its going to be any more risky to modify those then anything else we've built plus we have a couple certified welders floating around to make sure i'm not getting to crazy. We have a plasma and mig so its not out of the question just want to make sure its a good route seeing how they still have a value before i chop them up lol.

As for the springs i can actually get about 70% off shipping so i'll keep you posted once i start looking around these yards and see how pulling them goes with 10" of snow on the ground lol.

 

[1988Jimmy]

Re: 2WD S10 setup for road racing

Any new updates?

 

[brock1949]

Re: 2WD S10 setup for road racing

well i've been swamped in motor stuff at the moment working through a couple challenges.. Comp R lifters and preload, MSD probillet distributor setup for EFI etc and a bunch of other random crap.

The good news is i got the valve terrain all setup tonight tomorrow i'll get the heater box back in, finish cleaning up the engine bay i really gotta decide if i'm keeping ABS and if its worth removing it all while i can stand where the engine goes and redo it. I should post a thread about the ABS on these trucks and see if its worth keeping i somehow doubt its worth it but then again i went through the headache of have Ed miller create the first ever one of his C5 kits with ABS hub.. It works great no issues.

right now i'm trying to get the Valve covers,accessory bracket and AC delete i made to the powder coating guy so its done by this weekend however I still need to finish the turbo brace off the Ac delete so tomorrow i'm going to test fit the whole thing back together probably put the intake on for the final time and mount the turbo. With any luck motors in and wired this weekend its back on all 4 tires and I can get it moved over to the bay with the lift finish the fuel cell, pump, filters etc etc and get everything back together.

Slowly but surely..

 

[brock1949]

Re: 2WD S10 setup for road racing

Couple updates

motors finally back together and installed!
Intake, injectors and fuel rails, Manifolds, turbo etc is all on

Had to make some last minute changes to the fuel system after finding a couple mistakes but i think were getting on the right track now and looks like everything is going to clear.

Also decided i would clean up the steering while everything is apart so today i called around and found a 50K ZQ8 steering box and they actually went down to 50 bucks on it! Getting that so cheap i'm going the flamming river route for sure on the steering shaft i'll probably pick that up tonight and try to finish steering and get the ECM/harness mounted and through the firewall.

I posted a couple installed pics on the S10 build area
http://picasaweb.google.com/carpenter.brock

 

[1988Jimmy]

Re: 2WD S10 setup for road racing

Truck is looking good! Can't wait to see the outcome of it. I still need to pick up my rear swaybar brackets and my ZQ8 box/ZQ8 springs. Not alot else to get except for control arm bushings, tubular upper control arms, and maybe some brakes. That'll probably be all I'll do suspension-wise to this one.