Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

JSM

JSM

Active member
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

I just saw a sy with similar setup off a 90 pontiac. I should have somewhat of a pic, I think he used all gm stuff to make it work. I saw the truck running, touched the crank wheel even. So I know it worked.

I thought something was funny when I went to check the firing order.
 
JSM

JSM

Active member
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Got some more time.

Hood if your reading I am curious. The truck I saw has a GM system from a 90 pontiac grand am 3.1L, also olds, etc. There is a crank wheel between the pulley and balancer, trigger is on the drivers side exactly at the 3 oclock position (as looking from front of truck). The coils are mounted where the dist was, couldn't see under so not sure how the cam is being driven.

What I am wondering though is the 3.1 L motor, can we just take that wheel/pulley? The belt spacing was fine from what I saw. Thinking the pulley on that motor may be shorter?

The trigger wheel was probably 1/8" thick.

Truck ran, even ran in limp home mode. I have the chip here to read also curious if the owner changed any spark angles in chip. It was done very clean, so clean it took me couple hours messing with truck to even notice it.
 
turbodig

turbodig

Active member
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

JS Manufacturing said:
Got some more time.

Hood if your reading I am curious. The truck I saw has a GM system from a 90 pontiac grand am 3.1L, also olds, etc. There is a crank wheel between the pulley and balancer, trigger is on the drivers side exactly at the 3 oclock position (as looking from front of truck). The coils are mounted where the dist was, couldn't see under so not sure how the cam is being driven.

What I am wondering though is the 3.1 L motor, can we just take that wheel/pulley? The belt spacing was fine from what I saw. Thinking the pulley on that motor may be shorter?

The trigger wheel was probably 1/8" thick.

Truck ran, even ran in limp home mode. I have the chip here to read also curious if the owner changed any spark angles in chip. It was done very clean, so clean it took me couple hours messing with truck to even notice it.
Click to expand...

3.1 motor had the "wheel" cast into the crank. As did most (all?) DIS 2.8s. I'm not aware of any that had the wheel externally. GM preferred to keep them out of sight, and mounted where the air gap wouldn't vary. If there's GM off-the-shelf parts, though, all the better.

Bet the wheel has 7 teeth.

Limp home runs off the module... if the wheel is right, everything works.

That might be a good source for a shorter pulley, though. Downer is that our balancer has that step in it. Could just make the wheel really thick.

Pictures....?
 
JSM

JSM

Active member
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

T-Bone owns the truck in question, even was a TOTM on here (red sy).

I tried to get some pictures of the wheel. Really hard to get a good pic, but he has 1 he will send me this week and I will get it posted. I have a copy of the wiring diagram with notes on it also. :)

I looked up the sensor online and it seems to match what I saw, the wheel was def. not part of balancer. If we could find a pulley I think it would be fairly easy setup, all gm parts. I bet it had 7 teeth also, but couldn't count them on truck.
 
turbodig

turbodig

Active member
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

In the end, what it sounds like jeff is talking about is what we're building.

I doubt this is something that was "production", rather, a home-built.
If they do exist out there, they're as scarce as hen's teeth and wouldn't help us much in the parts department, anyway.

Maybe it's a Marine thing... again though, that doesn't help us much. "Marine" is Detroit-speak for "triple the price of the parts".
 
JSM

JSM

Active member
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

I am thinking it is a custom wheel, using the 3.1 sensor/module/coiles then wired into the stock wiring.

What I wonder is if there is a crank pulley that is not as long, that we could put the wheel between the balancer/pulley and have the correct spacing. I know I could cut a pulley/weld it but be better to be off the shelf stuff.
 
skwayb

skwayb

NWSTP
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Was thinking about this after looking at my eDist setup that I still need to install. Would this be a better way to go than the eDist?

Also does this 7 tooth setup still require the ignition module? I am thinking it still will need to be in there to send the proper signal back to the ECM. Maybe I am smoking crack.....
 
fivetodrive

fivetodrive

CRISPY
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

I was looking at the junkyard today and noticed that the astro pulley seems to be a little shorter than ours. Is our pulley the same as the chevy truck or blazer pulley? I can run out there tomorrow and see that the dimension is and maybe get a part number off the pulley. It is pretty hard to measure. I will bring a ruler or straightedge out there tomorrow and measure the pulley. I guess the diameter would be necessary as well...

But I did get my coilpack today! It sure has a nice aluminum mounting plate!
 
M

MikeRenz

not stock
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

they're talking about dampner / balancers....not crank pulleys.
 
fivetodrive

fivetodrive

CRISPY
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

MikeRenz said:
they're talking about dampner / balancers....not crank pulleys.
Click to expand...


Earlier in the posts there was a discussion of a shorter crank pulley that would allow for the 7 tooth wheel to be placed between the balancer and the crank pulley.

I think Jeff was talking about it on T-Bone's red sy...

JS Manufacturing said:
Got some more time.

Hood if your reading I am curious. The truck I saw has a GM system from a 90 pontiac grand am 3.1L, also olds, etc. There is a crank wheel between the pulley and balancer, trigger is on the drivers side exactly at the 3 oclock position (as looking from front of truck). The coils are mounted where the dist was, couldn't see under so not sure how the cam is being driven.

What I am wondering though is the 3.1 L motor, can we just take that wheel/pulley? The belt spacing was fine from what I saw. Thinking the pulley on that motor may be shorter?

The trigger wheel was probably 1/8" thick.

Truck ran, even ran in limp home mode. I have the chip here to read also curious if the owner changed any spark angles in chip. It was done very clean, so clean it took me couple hours messing with truck to even notice it.
Click to expand...

Going back to the balancer...
From the pictures of the inside of the balancer the cast portion is not straight. The face of the pulley is very straight...

A major part of this project is to keep it low cost. A junkyard pulley costs a lot less than a new pioneer balancer....

Edit... After taking a second look at the stock balancer I just now realized what dig said about the lip on the front of the balancer... that lip is huge... We do need a flat front like the balancer on the 88 350ci truck i was looking at today... I will still take measurements of the pulley i saw at the yard today. I will also take a few moments and try to find another stock pulley in the pile of parts... It makes me wish I hadn't sold that atr underdrive pulley... (I knew where that was) :(
 
Last edited:
T-Bone

T-Bone

Active member
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

fivetodrive said:
Earlier in the posts there was a discussion of a shorter crank pulley that would allow for the 7 tooth wheel to be placed between the balancer and the crank pulley.

I think Jeff was talking about it on T-Bone's red sy...



Going back to the balancer...
From the pictures of the inside of the balancer the cast portion is not straight. The face of the pulley is very straight...

A major part of this project is to keep it low cost. A junkyard pulley costs a lot less than a new pioneer balancer....

Edit... After taking a second look at the stock balancer I just now realized what dig said about the lip on the front of the balancer... that lip is huge... We do need a flat front like the balancer on the 88 350ci truck i was looking at today... I will still take measurements of the pulley i saw at the yard today. I will also take a few moments and try to find another stock pulley in the pile of parts... It makes me wish I hadn't sold that atr underdrive pulley... (I knew where that was) :(
Click to expand...

I have a new ATR underdrive pulley with new serpentine belt if you are interested in it :). Also, I will try to get some decent pics of the set-up on my Sy for you all but there is not alot of room in there. A lift would render the best results. Please don't bombard me with questions about it....I am just a dumb guy with some flexible cash and I bought the truck already equipped with the DL ignition. I can tell you all the whole set-up with GM parts ran close to $1,000. Labor/time to install: no clue but it definately is do-able.
 
turbodig

turbodig

Active member
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

fivetodrive said:
Edit... After taking a second look at the stock balancer I just now realized what dig said about the lip on the front of the balancer... that lip is huge... We do need a flat front like the balancer on the 88 350ci truck i was looking at today... I will still take measurements of the pulley i saw at the yard today. I will also take a few moments and try to find another stock pulley in the pile of parts... It makes me wish I hadn't sold that atr underdrive pulley... (I knew where that was) :(
Click to expand...

We can get around the lip issue... would just need a spacer the thickness of the lip. (.550)

A .750 to 1" shorter pulley would be the ticket.
Vans (either v6 or 8) would be the likely best target, as there is typically a front clearance issue.

I'd still much prefer the wheel behind the balancer... the further out there it gets, the more the possibilites for fit / alignment problems.
 
fivetodrive

fivetodrive

CRISPY
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

I am still looking for pulley's... The last one I found was only an 1/8th inch shorter... There are lots of pulleys that are for v-belts.... Not a lot for serpintine...

Is there anything happening with Hood on the replacement balancer?

Any ideas on how to deal with the uneven casting so we can place the toothed wheel on the inside?

Does it still look like the toothed ring would need to be machined?

T-bone any chance to take even a crappy pic of your setup?

If we have to have something machined wouldn't it be easier to machine a stock balancer? If so would it throw the engine out of balance? If not how much would need to be machined?

Is it possible to drill and epoxy magnets in the wheel? Maybe not throwing the wheel out of balance?
 
sytyguy

sytyguy

Moderated User
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

I shipped a balancer to Renz for him to design a ring around (went slowmail, so it's probably not there yet). I also got in a CrPS and the plug/harness.......will get a chance to check that side of things out next week.

Hood
 
turbodig

turbodig

Active member
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

fivetodrive said:
I am still looking for pulley's... The last one I found was only an 1/8th inch shorter... There are lots of pulleys that are for v-belts.... Not a lot for serpintine...

Is there anything happening with Hood on the replacement balancer?

Any ideas on how to deal with the uneven casting so we can place the toothed wheel on the inside?

Does it still look like the toothed ring would need to be machined?

T-bone any chance to take even a crappy pic of your setup?

If we have to have something machined wouldn't it be easier to machine a stock balancer? If so would it throw the engine out of balance? If not how much would need to be machined?

Is it possible to drill and epoxy magnets in the wheel? Maybe not throwing the wheel out of balance?
Click to expand...


The idea is to not have to mess with fabricating existing parts. If people want to do this on their own, there isn't anything stopping them.

It would be much harder to machine a balancer than to waterjet a wheel that bolts on.

The wheel is symmetrical, except for the 7th notch. There's more imbalance in the rods + crank than this will ever generate.

Hood's balancer will work well for this. A 2 piece clamp-on wheel to the stock will also work well. They will require different mounting brackets due to different depth.
 
fivetodrive

fivetodrive

CRISPY
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

sytyguy said:
I shipped a balancer to Renz for him to design a ring around (went slowmail, so it's probably not there yet). I also got in a CrPS and the plug/harness.......will get a chance to check that side of things out next week.

Hood
Click to expand...

Thanks for doing this Mike & Mike!!! You shipped him the pioneer balancer right? After looking at the pics closer the cast portion dosent look too bad. It looks better than the stock one I have here!

Which CrPS did you get? The ranger / explorer one?
 
sytyguy

sytyguy

Moderated User
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

fivetodrive said:
Thanks for doing this Mike & Mike!!! You shipped him the pioneer balancer right? After looking at the pics closer the cast portion dosent look too bad. It looks better than the stock one I have here!

Which CrPS did you get? The ranger / explorer one?
Click to expand...

Un-huh. Shipped earlier this week.

CrPS....I got the aforementioned PC74.

Hood
 
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