Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)
- Thread starter UR50SLO
- Start date
leroy
Donating Member
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)
I am using one. Seems to work okay. I have a Mallory crank trigger too.
I still think the cheapest route would be to modify the stock distributor. Use the pickup coil for the crank trigger, and mount a magnet where the rotor goes, and install a sensor in the distributor cap for the cam sync. You may have more timing variation than using a balancer mounted trigger, but I haven't heard of that being a significant problem.
Jim
THEMADTYPH00N said:
I am using one. Seems to work okay. I have a Mallory crank trigger too.
I still think the cheapest route would be to modify the stock distributor. Use the pickup coil for the crank trigger, and mount a magnet where the rotor goes, and install a sensor in the distributor cap for the cam sync. You may have more timing variation than using a balancer mounted trigger, but I haven't heard of that being a significant problem.
Jim
turbodig
Active member
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)
The coilpack we're using doesn't work like that... It wants the 7-toothed wheel.
The 3.8 coilpacks use a cam and crank sensor, but it has funky timing all its own.
We could probably do what Renz had in the drawing, but you're still making a wheel, and a mount to mount the sensor. Might as well use the crank, at that point, and take advantage of the fact that it won't move around.
leroy said:
The coilpack we're using doesn't work like that... It wants the 7-toothed wheel.
The 3.8 coilpacks use a cam and crank sensor, but it has funky timing all its own.
We could probably do what Renz had in the drawing, but you're still making a wheel, and a mount to mount the sensor. Might as well use the crank, at that point, and take advantage of the fact that it won't move around.
sytyguy
Moderated User
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)
Okay....the new balancer came in today (the Pioneer 872001), and the inner hub measured out at 4.428" OD. I snapped several pics, but will have to wait until I get home to upload. Also, the inner ring is flush with the entire side of the balancer (doesn't protrude inward (towards the engine) any past the outer ring), so we'll gain a substantial amount of clearance with this unit.
I'm gonna bolt this one on this weekend and snap some shots. I think this is the balancer to make this whole project go forward.
Hood
Okay....the new balancer came in today (the Pioneer 872001), and the inner hub measured out at 4.428" OD. I snapped several pics, but will have to wait until I get home to upload. Also, the inner ring is flush with the entire side of the balancer (doesn't protrude inward (towards the engine) any past the outer ring), so we'll gain a substantial amount of clearance with this unit.
I'm gonna bolt this one on this weekend and snap some shots. I think this is the balancer to make this whole project go forward.
Hood
UR50SLO
V6+2=LSXCamaro
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)
:woot: :rock: :friends:
Sweeeeeeet!
I just got off the phone with "Chris" at BJH Ballancers. (1-510-797-6780)
He's able to make a SFI or non-sfi ballancer for us with what ever reluctor wheel Dig has.
I went over some prelim. estimates on costs... About 7-1500.00 in initial setup/final design
for the application we are doing and after that the ballancers with wheel and everything
setup to bolt on the engine would be in the 2-300.00 area (WD). Don't have to order any
specific amount of ballancers.
I wanted to research that as a option. If Dig/Renz/Hood have any interest in that as a
option there's the contact info. It might take a little extra money for each person to set
it up on their vehicle but the end result might be better if your taking the old one off
and putting a new one on that's ready to go. Takes alot of error out of the situation.
Just another idea.
~~Scott
:woot: :rock: :friends:
Sweeeeeeet!
I just got off the phone with "Chris" at BJH Ballancers. (1-510-797-6780)
He's able to make a SFI or non-sfi ballancer for us with what ever reluctor wheel Dig has.
I went over some prelim. estimates on costs... About 7-1500.00 in initial setup/final design
for the application we are doing and after that the ballancers with wheel and everything
setup to bolt on the engine would be in the 2-300.00 area (WD). Don't have to order any
specific amount of ballancers.
I wanted to research that as a option. If Dig/Renz/Hood have any interest in that as a
option there's the contact info. It might take a little extra money for each person to set
it up on their vehicle but the end result might be better if your taking the old one off
and putting a new one on that's ready to go. Takes alot of error out of the situation.
Just another idea.
~~Scott
turbodig
Active member
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)
I think this is getting a bit away from the original goals:
< $300 (Assuming a yard-sourced coil module)
Easy to install by average folks with average hand tools
No end-user fabrication involved.
Nice to know the option is there, but a $300 balancer makes this a nearly $500 setup.
Hood's balancer with a manu'd wheel is a better option. It's gonna depend a lot on the cost of balancer + wheel vs. more difficult to make 2-piece wheel. If the overall difference is only
$30-$40, it makes it kind of a no brainer.
First things first... gotta make it work!
UR50SLO said:
I think this is getting a bit away from the original goals:
< $300 (Assuming a yard-sourced coil module)
Easy to install by average folks with average hand tools
No end-user fabrication involved.
Nice to know the option is there, but a $300 balancer makes this a nearly $500 setup.
Hood's balancer with a manu'd wheel is a better option. It's gonna depend a lot on the cost of balancer + wheel vs. more difficult to make 2-piece wheel. If the overall difference is only
$30-$40, it makes it kind of a no brainer.
First things first... gotta make it work!
sytyguy
Moderated User
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)
I agree, sub-$300 for the whole project is the key IMO. Costs I see (if sourced new):
Balancer - $75
Coils - $90 (3 @ $30 ea)
Ign Module - $100
CrPS - $30
---------------------------
$295 w/o the ring
That could be SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper if you sourced everything but the balancer and wheel from a junkyard.
Also, if we did an initial order of 10 units or more, I could easily get the above parts for cheaper. I could see:
Balancer - $65
Coils - $75
Ign Module - $90
CrPS - $27
---------------------------
$257 w/o the ring
Hood
I agree, sub-$300 for the whole project is the key IMO. Costs I see (if sourced new):
Balancer - $75
Coils - $90 (3 @ $30 ea)
Ign Module - $100
CrPS - $30
---------------------------
$295 w/o the ring
That could be SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper if you sourced everything but the balancer and wheel from a junkyard.
Also, if we did an initial order of 10 units or more, I could easily get the above parts for cheaper. I could see:
Balancer - $65
Coils - $75
Ign Module - $90
CrPS - $27
---------------------------
$257 w/o the ring
Hood
turbodig
Active member
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)
Cool. Does the inner hub extend out at all? We need *some* gap between the outer ring and the wheel. Otherwise, it becomes a solid balancer.
The big advantage to this, is that the wheel can be pre-installed, eliminating any alignment issues.
sytyguy said:
Okay, uploaded some crappy cell phone pics, but they at least show what we're working with.
Hood
Cool. Does the inner hub extend out at all? We need *some* gap between the outer ring and the wheel. Otherwise, it becomes a solid balancer.
The big advantage to this, is that the wheel can be pre-installed, eliminating any alignment issues.
UR50SLO
V6+2=LSXCamaro
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)
I thought I'd give a manufacture a call and see what it might cost to have one specific made.
I did look on Electromotive's site and they have alot of different seensors avlbl. Not sure if any of them will work on your wheel...
Awsome job on the ballancer Hood!!!!!
Let's hope that works!
This is going to be so cool!
~Scott~
I thought I'd give a manufacture a call and see what it might cost to have one specific made.
I did look on Electromotive's site and they have alot of different seensors avlbl. Not sure if any of them will work on your wheel...
Awsome job on the ballancer Hood!!!!!
Let's hope that works!
This is going to be so cool!
~Scott~
sytyguy
Moderated User
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)
Pioneer Balancer
----------------------------------------------
Sealing Journal OD = 1.764"
Cast Area OD = 2.225"
Thickness of Inner Ring = .900"
Thickness of Outer Ring = .758"
-----------------------------------------------
Although, the cast area is a bit tapered (larger as it goes forward towards the bolt "spokes"), but the largest OD (at the spokes) is the above diameter.
Also, the inner ring is perfectly flush with the outer on the inside of the balancer......it sticks out a bit on the front (0.142"). If this is an issue I can research other balancers.
Hood
Pioneer Balancer
----------------------------------------------
Sealing Journal OD = 1.764"
Cast Area OD = 2.225"
Thickness of Inner Ring = .900"
Thickness of Outer Ring = .758"
-----------------------------------------------
Although, the cast area is a bit tapered (larger as it goes forward towards the bolt "spokes"), but the largest OD (at the spokes) is the above diameter.
Also, the inner ring is perfectly flush with the outer on the inside of the balancer......it sticks out a bit on the front (0.142"). If this is an issue I can research other balancers.
Hood
sytyguy
Moderated User
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)
If the flush hubs is an issue, could we recess the wheel once it gets beyond the inner hub? I'll try to make more sense....what if the wheel (still one piece) was one thinckness at the inner hub and got a few thousandths (or more?) thinner where it's across from the outer hub? Ya know, prefab the whole thing one thickness and then lathe off a bit for the outer few inches (or whatever width the outer ring is). That would give us solid mounting, but a gap b/t the wheel and outer hub.
I have a lathe if it's needed.
Thinking outside of box? Inside? Underneath?
Hood
If the flush hubs is an issue, could we recess the wheel once it gets beyond the inner hub? I'll try to make more sense....what if the wheel (still one piece) was one thinckness at the inner hub and got a few thousandths (or more?) thinner where it's across from the outer hub? Ya know, prefab the whole thing one thickness and then lathe off a bit for the outer few inches (or whatever width the outer ring is). That would give us solid mounting, but a gap b/t the wheel and outer hub.
I have a lathe if it's needed.
Thinking outside of box? Inside? Underneath?
Hood
sytyguy
Moderated User
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)
6" OD should work as the balancer is 6.25" and the timing tab is much farther off center than the balancer. 3/8" thick should be cake with this balancer as the stock inner hub protrusion (from inner hub to face of outer hub - laterally speaking) had to be .500 and there was already a .300 gap b/t the inner hub and timing cover.
I'm expecting there to be at least .750 gap between this Pioneer balancer and the timing cover.
Hood
MikeRenz said:
6" OD should work as the balancer is 6.25" and the timing tab is much farther off center than the balancer. 3/8" thick should be cake with this balancer as the stock inner hub protrusion (from inner hub to face of outer hub - laterally speaking) had to be .500 and there was already a .300 gap b/t the inner hub and timing cover.
I'm expecting there to be at least .750 gap between this Pioneer balancer and the timing cover.
Hood
Syclone#892
Member
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)
What about trying to us the newer style chevy plastic timing cover and just making a new wheel on the crank?
Heres a link to the cover, http://www1.autozone.com/R,APP12519...partType,01159/shopping/partProductDetail.htm
Dorman also sells one.
I believe this is on all '96 to '99 small block engines, mayb some one has one of these engines laying around and can take some pics etc. Last time I had one of these apart I don't remember that wheel on the crank being very big or anything so I think it would be hard to make?
Just my thoughts continue on
What about trying to us the newer style chevy plastic timing cover and just making a new wheel on the crank?
Heres a link to the cover, http://www1.autozone.com/R,APP12519...partType,01159/shopping/partProductDetail.htm
Dorman also sells one.
I believe this is on all '96 to '99 small block engines, mayb some one has one of these engines laying around and can take some pics etc. Last time I had one of these apart I don't remember that wheel on the crank being very big or anything so I think it would be hard to make?
Just my thoughts continue on
turbodig
Active member
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)
The numbers I came up with for the clamp-on method:
Ring diameter 6.250"
Inner hole diameter 4.445"
I still need to check the inner diameter against the other 2 balancers I have, which are in storage. The center hole doesn't have to be exact, but it should be close. Similar to how you resize a rod cap, we'll take some extra off the seam. As long as the air gap is inside a notch, it won't affect the signal.
1/2" thick would be preferred. Allows for some misalignment of the sensor without running into problems. Thickness is no longer a clearance issue with your balancer or clamp-on.
The sensor body is fairly thick itself. When I was working on notching the inner ring, I had to grind a bit off it to get clearance. We won't have to do that with the larger ring.
sytyguy said:
The numbers I came up with for the clamp-on method:
Ring diameter 6.250"
Inner hole diameter 4.445"
I still need to check the inner diameter against the other 2 balancers I have, which are in storage. The center hole doesn't have to be exact, but it should be close. Similar to how you resize a rod cap, we'll take some extra off the seam. As long as the air gap is inside a notch, it won't affect the signal.
1/2" thick would be preferred. Allows for some misalignment of the sensor without running into problems. Thickness is no longer a clearance issue with your balancer or clamp-on.
The sensor body is fairly thick itself. When I was working on notching the inner ring, I had to grind a bit off it to get clearance. We won't have to do that with the larger ring.
Christian Dionne
Member
Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)
http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/group-purchases-vendor-specials/69249-39-acdelco-coil-packs.html
$39 ACDelco GN Coil packs... looks like a good deal to only buy one instead of 3 Ford $29 ones.
http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/group-purchases-vendor-specials/69249-39-acdelco-coil-packs.html
$39 ACDelco GN Coil packs... looks like a good deal to only buy one instead of 3 Ford $29 ones.