Transfer Case problems...w/pics**replaced w/pics**

TxSy1430

New member
The truck would sound like the front tire was hopping when turned left or right while backing up. also would make a hard clunking sound when put into reverse. From reading other posts on here it looks like the viscous coupling is going out, or could it be the planetary? Also the magnet has some piece of schrapnel on it. I think the VC looks good but the planetary feels loose. Could a bad planetary cause the same problems as the VC going bad?



Case half...
26712830021_large.jpg


Planetary...
26712830023_large.jpg


VC-1...
26712830024_large.jpg


VC-2...
26712830025_large.jpg


VC-3...
26712830027_large.jpg


VC-4...
26712830028_large.jpg


Magnet...
26712830022_large.jpg


Ahhhh home sweet home....these trucks love altitude....
26712830020_large.jpg
 
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George Blake

DONATING MEMBER
Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

You can't tell by just looking at a viscous unless it's burnt brown and blue (I've got one here like that), or it's popped open.
The inner splined area of the viscous is actually independent of the rest. Basically the viscous is a clutch pack. If it's locked up solid, it is basically permanently engaged and allows no play anywhere and you get the hop and possibly other broken parts.
Here's a quickie on them:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential5.htm

Grab the planetary pinion. Try to move it back and forth from the center. That'll tell you if the shaft is shot. Look to see if the shaft moves in the housing where it's staked. If it does, it's shot. There is no repair. They are throw away units. On the top and the bottom of the pinion gear (spur gear) is a heat treated waved washer. If this wears out, thins out, and breaks free, it will end up in places like the magnet.

The chain. They usually stretch out.
You've got it apart.
Spin the bearings. Do they do the "shhhhhhh"? If not, replace them.

You've gone through that much trouble.
Do the viscous, chain, and bearings.
If the planet is loose anywhere, replace it.
That thing on the magnet is either a washer from the planet, or a piece of the viscous that's sheered off.
Remove the rear tailhousing and inspect the bushing.
While you've got the rear housing off, pull up on the tail shaft to support it and remove the snap ring. Be CAREFUL. When the snap ring is removed, the rear shaft and ring gear WILL fall if you don't support it. Take the retaining ring out of the ring gear that holds it to the output shaft. That ring gear WILL be full of crud. Clean it out thoroughly. Look at the output shaft where the bearing is. There is a hole in the center. Make sure all of that is cleaned out and not blocked. That supplied lube to everything that moves inside the ring gear.
Every bolt that holds something together on the T-case gets 35 foot pounds except the bolt that holds the speed sensor on. Just hand tighten. Fill plugs just hand tighten with thread sealer (not red loctite, ooh, don't do that...I took apart one last week with that in it).
Black RTV 1/8" bead on one case half and on the tailhousing surface.
You'll need a gear puller to get the bearing off that retains the spacer, cog, and viscous onto the sun gear shaft. Use a bushing driver and press to get the bearing back (or the new bearing)when you replace the viscous.
Be careful if you install new seals. If you hammer them into place, the spring that pulls tension on the seal against the shaft wall can pop out. You can put it back in with patience and a 90 degree dental pic.
The rear output shaft seal for 32 spline setups in newer kits is a little different. Use a 2" PVC coupling like you'd get at LOWE's and a block of wood. You just place the wood on the coupling and hit it with a hammer and drive the seal in. Coat the ribbed surface of the seal where it contacts the aluminum of the tailhousing with vasoline or transgel and it'll slide right in with a few hits.
If the tailhousing bushing is spun out, the yoke on the rear driveshaft is bent. Replace it.
Something that really helps when you reassemble everything is, after you get the output shaft/ring gear assembly back in and the tailhousing back on, is to sit it in a 5 gallon bucket so it points everything up better. Works really well and makes it a lot easier to keep the smaller thrust washer in place so you can drop the input shaft in easier.
 

TxSy1430

New member
Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

which one is the planetary pinion? do you have a pic?
 

TxSy1430

New member
Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

Oh yea... the planetary gears move side to side at least a 1/4 of an inch and it rattles a lot. should the planet be tight??

just out of curiosity we knocked a pin out and hmmmm...i bet this could be a problem.


Can the VC still be good then??...possibly

26712830029_large.jpg


26712830030_large.jpg


26712830032_large.jpg
 
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George Blake

DONATING MEMBER
Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

41_G_001.sized.jpg

Look in the red circle. That is the actual pinion.
Grab it with your thumb and middle finger and move it in the direction of the green arrows.
Now look in the blue circles. Those are the pinion shafts. See how they are staked?
If that moves while your moving the pinions, the planet is shot.
Now look at this pic:
43_G.sized.jpg

Look inside the splines of the ring gear. See that crud? That is actual particles from the planetary itself caking in the housing. Get it ALL out. You'll have to disassemble it. First use a thin, flat blade screwdriver and scrape all 70 splines out. Some have it REALLY pressed in there and it will be HARD. Then hit it with carb cleaner, then a dental pick. You'll be amazed how much of that gunk is in there and how difficult it is to get out. A parts washer ain't gonna do it.

The pinions revolve around a "sun" gear. That is why they call it a "planetary" gearset.
 

George Blake

DONATING MEMBER
Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

Your planetary is FUBAR. Replace it.
Here's that same ring gear cleaned out.
76_G.sized.jpg

It's really amazing how that planet breaks down.
Damn. I was looking at your pic:
26712830023_large.jpg

Look at the teeth on the pinion at the top. The whole tip of one of the spur gears is gone.
Look at the pinion over on the right. The thing is sharp as a dog's tooth. Look at the pinion shaft at the top. It's different from the other 3. Someone has tried to rebuild that planet and messed it up bad. You cannot rebuild those. Check you ring gear REALLY good and make sure none of the splines are messed up. The ring gear is that thing I told you to clean out really good.
 
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George Blake

DONATING MEMBER
Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

I can't believe that didn't lock your driveline up. Replace the chain for SURE. The viscous has taken a pounding from it locking up in there. It depends on how much your time is worth. You might put it together and it be fine, or it could break a drive axle like it did on a couple other guy's rides on here. That is probably the worst planet I've ever seen. Check that ring gear for cracks really close. That's amazing the truck didn't vibrate like hell.
 

TxSy1430

New member
Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

it only took me 45 minutes to take it out of the truck and break it down....it was starting to make whining noises....I think I'll magnaflux the ring then..the viscous doesnt have any discoloration of the case and the balls...haha... arent bulging out. I cant help but laugh typing bulging balls....LOL
 

George Blake

DONATING MEMBER
Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

it only took me 45 minutes to take it out of the truck and break it down....it was starting to make whining noises....the viscous doesnt have any discoloration of the case and the balls...haha... arent bulging out. I cant help but laugh typing bulging balls....LOL

The discoloration isn't absolute. That's just a sure sign. It can look perfectly fine and be welded together inside where the "fan" blades got too hot. Yours is an extreme case and looks like the pinion has actually jumped spline because so much is missing. That's HARD on a chain and viscous taking shocks like that. That "clunk" could well have been the pinion jumping spline. Man that things ugly. You really should rebuild that whole case. That's a mess. Can you get a better shot of the sun gear where it engages those pinions. Something besides a cell phone? Those pics kinda suck for helping find problems.
 

George Blake

DONATING MEMBER
Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

you want it....?
What? The truck? The transfer case from hell? Nope.:rotf:
I may have a good used planet and sungear shaft and chain here. Let me look.
Was the ring gear messed up? I don't have any of those.
You've done the hard part. You can rebuild it if you can do all that.
 

TxSy1430

New member
Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

I haven't checked the ring gear yet. its at home. This should be easy to rebuild...just how many extra parts can I have after this...lol
 

George Blake

DONATING MEMBER
Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

Here's the gallery.
http://www.primegears.net/gallery/BW4472-rebuild
Bunches of pics in order there.
You can't mix up the bearings. Pretty obvious which ones go where.
Just watch seals. That spring can pop out during installation. For example, after drive in the seal where the input shaft goes, lift up the case half and see if it's laying on the bench/floor underneath. Inspect the seal before putting it in. The good kits will have a front seal that has a lip going each way and a spring on each side pulling tension. Lube it up and the input shaft when you get ready to slide them together. Also put transgel on the front case where that bearing will engage. Makes it a LOT easier to get that cover on. Mind those pins that align the case halves. I put a 1" thick piece of wood that about 20"x20" underneath and then hang the "pins" over the edges so the case sits flat while I'm driving seals in.
 

TxSy1430

New member
Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

thats great...im screwed...not enough cash for all 3 (planet,vc and chain)....I may have to get a used transfer case...
 

George Blake

DONATING MEMBER
Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

I agree, on the viscous. Just not the planet gear wear. Those go bad just from the forces against them and they do rotate. That's the viscous clutches job. I just can't figure out how that one pinion didn't completely jump spline. There's just not enough left of it. I'm thinking that might be where that long sliver of metal came from as it shaved off. The sun gear shaft can't be good after all that. The two most common things with the age of these trucks and how they are abused is the planetaries and the viscous clutches are just done. VC manufacturers recommend changing at 50K-60K miles if the case is apart.
The way that setup works is the WHOLE thing spins together unless you break a tire loose(for whatever reason, burnout, tight turn, whatever), the viscous heats up and tries to grab it back, which is through transfer of torque. You look at that setup for a minute and you can see how running without a prop WILL damage the viscous. Not maybe. Will. Yet guys argue that it's just fine.
I would rebuild the whole thing. If you get a used one, it will be just as bad as far as VC being bad, chain stretched, and planet worn. They are just too old now. You'd spend less on that than you did on your billet torque converter.
 

TxSy1430

New member
Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

all 4 are in the same shape as that pinion.
 

TxSy1430

New member
Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

what year of astro and bravada will work with the syclone?
 

George Blake

DONATING MEMBER
Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

I agree. But the "forces against them" will increase dramatically if the VC is locked. That was my point.



How much do they rotate if the front and rear drive shafts are turning exactly the same speed?
Ie, no tire slippage, all tires turning the exact same speed, and no axle differential action. (Vehicle not turning).

If they are turning at the exact same speed. When you turn, they don't. When you take off hard, they don't. If you are going through a curve and your right front tire hits gravel or ice, they don't.
This creates the shear on the viscous. This is when the outer and inner parts of the viscous turn at different rates and the sun gear teeth will rotate at a different rate than the ring gear until the viscous heats up enough to stop it. So the pinions are rolling over. If the pinions never needed to rotate, there wouldn't be a planet there. Heck, you wouldn't need a viscous if the whole assembly rotated as a unit all the time. That pic on "how stuff works" really lays out the viscous but how it is incorporated into the transfer case is kinda tough when you see everything splined together. I think we're saying the same thing. But when Adam is road racing his, it's shearing CONSTANTLY. Always rotating at different rates working the viscous to stop it. Just depends on how it's abused how long it lasts. The planet is the pivot point and takes a beating feeding reistance to the viscous.

The application list is on here somewhere already. We should make that a sticky. Get you something and transfer the guts to yours. Keep your output shaft so you don't have to make any changes to the rear driveshaft setup. Lay the chain next to yours and make sure it's not worse than yours. I'd take the ring gear, sun gear shaft and check the planetary. Won't do you ANY good if you get one and the planet is as bad as yours in it. Aaron Timm. Look his up. He's the guy whose Ty caught fire. Project Crispy. He runs across a LOT of transfer cases and knows which ones to use. There is also another couple guys on here, BW8008, something like that. They keep a ton of them.


Good luck TxSy1430. Sorry for all the other stuff, you'd probably care less about.
 
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TxSy1430

New member
Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

this has been very informative...
 

typhoon92

Donating Member
Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

Re: Transfer Case problems...w/pics

I have a syclone transfer case I'll sell you!
$225.00 plus shipping
 
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